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  #61  
Old 15.04.2021, 21:03
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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No, we cant!

We are all happy with our BMW's and Mercedes's parked outside our home.

We were given few documentaries as:

1. The Great Hack
2. Social Dilemma
3. Seaspiracy

We let politician lie and we don't do anything about it. As species we always start to change when is too late.
Actually you will be surprised - just think of the powers weve bestowed on governments to deal
with emergencies and the restrictions they've imposed on people the world over, in the name
of controlling the pandemic.

Emergency powers I grant you but powers that you, me and the electorate have accepted
without a whimper - then consider the number of governments around the world that have
declared a 'climate change emergency' and consider the same governments reimposing and
enforcing new restrictions ( not in the name of controlling the virus ) but in the name of
controlling the new menace Co2 emissions.

France has started already by bringing in legistlation to ban short-haul flights arguing
people should let the train take the strain, in the name of reducing greenhouse gases.
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Old 15.04.2021, 22:31
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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No, we cant!

We are all happy with our BMW's and Mercedes's parked outside our home.

We were given few documentaries as:

1. The Great Hack
2. Social Dilemma
3. Seaspiracy

We let politician lie and we don't do anything about it. As species we always start to change when is too late.
Not sure about your assessment, FCKW´s have been reduced by putting pressure and changing political will with the result that the ozone hole is closing.

I think that by far the biggest problem is inertia, by the time the science backs up the idea that something could be wrong a lot of time will have passed. Since the late seventies the science has been in that burning fossils will create climate change, but it is only recently that people have been aware of this fact. And now things are slowly beginning to change. Is it too late? Well only time will tell.
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Old 15.04.2021, 23:22
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Not sure about your assessment, FCKW´s have been reduced by putting pressure and changing political will with the result that the ozone hole is closing.

I think that by far the biggest problem is inertia, by the time the science backs up the idea that something could be wrong a lot of time will have passed. Since the late seventies the science has been in that burning fossils will create climate change, but it is only recently that people have been aware of this fact. And now things are slowly beginning to change. Is it too late? Well only time will tell.
Good to hear your earlier post about vanity projects was „dripping with sarcasm“.

As for the science: in 1896, a physicist from Sweden named Svante Arrhenius punlished a study titled „On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Earth“. Since then, science has backed up the idea that something could be wrong several times over. So yes yes yes, it‘s inertia. The way several posters here use the word „we“ when describing behaviours they don’t condone is confusing to yours truly, to put it mildly.

Nice to see Godzilla mentioned here. Recently finished Lydia Millet‘s „Oh Pure and Radiant Heart“ and probably spent as much time looking up the history of the bomb and of nuclear tests as actually reading the novel. The historical setting just seemed too preposterous. But what I found held up. The bikini was indeed named after the atoll reduced to a nuclear test site. People did go watching mushroom clouds in Nevada. And LSD was legal.... I wasn‘t around in the sixties, alas. Were people as accepting of the end of their world as they seem to be these days? It would‘ve been a bang, not a whimper. Millet writes somewhere in that book that it is easier to live in denial than in horror. Still true today. Guess she meant that to be obvious. (Her latest, „A Children‘s Bible“, is contemporary, and currently my favourite book.)
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Old 16.04.2021, 16:37
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Because the contamination is very low, so except using scary words "radioactivity" "Fukushima" and "Godzilla" there is not much to say.
Yeh right, if it is as simple as you have implied, why not just dump into their own water reservoir since it is 'very low'?

'My mistake, Your problem'. Bravo!
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Old 16.04.2021, 17:05
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Yeh right, if it is as simple as you have implied, why not just dump into their own water reservoir since it is 'very low'?

'My mistake, Your problem'. Bravo!
Look at the bright side. Now we can have glow in the dark Lox. No more cursing trying to find it in the deep dark corners of the fridge.
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  #66  
Old 16.04.2021, 18:27
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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As for the science: in 1896, a physicist from Sweden named Svante Arrhenius punlished a study titled „On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Earth“. Since then, science has backed up the idea that something could be wrong several times over. So yes yes yes, it‘s inertia. The way several posters here use the word „we“ when describing behaviours they don’t condone is confusing to yours truly, to put it mildly.
You're being extremely selective and using hindsight. Science doesn't work that way.
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Old 16.04.2021, 19:13
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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You're being extremely selective and using hindsight. Science doesn't work that way.
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Old 16.04.2021, 22:15
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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You're being extremely selective and using hindsight. Science doesn't work that way.
(batting my eyelashes and doing my best to look demure and ignorant) Oh? Pray do explain. You‘re a scientist, right? Of course I never got beyond undergrad science, but I was under the impression that the natural sciences describe natural processes using models, and then correct them if the models are wrong. Such models are descriptive and therefore falsifiable. Arrhenius‘ theory seems to have aged rather well...

There is such a thing as scientific consensus about climate change, you know. I do realise the general public seems to believe it‘s a conspiracy theory. We need more nerds!

„Extremely selective“ is a term I would reserve for the perception of those who still refuse to believe there is such a thing as anthopogenic global warming.

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Old 17.04.2021, 05:40
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Point of new return is behind us. Maximum attention to avoid further warming is required. Problem is that any measures have lead time to effect of about 20 yrs. What is also missing is strategies to cope with climate change: gen-mod crops, nuclear power, energy storage etc.

Time to innovate
Yup. basically this. If people actually knew and understood the effect climate change was going to have on us in the decades to come they probably would not be able to sleep well at night.

When the pollenating insect populations and staple food stocks collapse (especially oceans)then we are going to know the true scale and horror of things.

We have already lost 97% of the worlds biodiversity. Go book a safari or trips to the rainforest(s) within the next couple few years, because it may be the last chance you get to see things in their natural state outside of some very well and specifically preserved sites.

Technology needs to start to advance very quickly and I assume we will see explosions in development of some areas when things get really, really visibly serious. At the moment the world governments and populations are still putting their heads in the sand, but that can't last for long.

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People are taking about climate change in N years to come but seemingly chose to ignore the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster in 2011. The government has recently decided to dump the radioactive contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean and the media is surprisingly calm with it. Perhaps we live in another side of the world, not our problem eh?

WTF do you expect people to do? Give up their jobs and go on marches every day? We know it happened, the media covered it, but you can't sustain outrage over individual incidents indefinitely and obviously it doesn't stay in the media for that long and governments then want to keep it quiet. There's only so much energy and power that regular people have on topics like this, especially when it's half a world away.
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Old 17.04.2021, 12:54
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

One of many theses turned out to be right. Which one(s) would is only knowable from hindsight.

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Old 17.04.2021, 17:37
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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One of many theses turned out to be right. Which one(s) would is only knowable from hindsight.
Which other theses are you referring to?

Global cooling?

That's also turned out to be right - we are currently feeling the effects of both man-induced global warming and cooling.

"The cooling period is reproduced by current (1999 on) global climate models that include the physical effects of sulfate aerosols, and there is now general agreement that aerosol effects were the dominant cause of the mid-20th century cooling."

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

If we weren't pumping aerosols into the atmosphere, it'd be warmer still.

How Air Pollution Has Put a Brake on Global Warming

COVID-19 lockdowns temporarily raised global temperatures

When we're eventually forced to stop polluting due to lack of resource availability,infrastructure breakdown, etc. we'll be truly up Shit's Creek.

We're f'd any way we look at it, unless maybe some helpful sympathetic aliens come to our rescue.

So there's hope.

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  #72  
Old 17.04.2021, 20:12
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Which other theses are you referring to?
The scope is (at least) 124 years, all brought forth during that time are valid cases in the sense that they needed very-/falsification, just like Arrhenius did.
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Old 17.04.2021, 22:45
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Yup. basically this. If people actually knew and understood the effect climate change was going to have on us in the decades to come they probably would not be able to sleep well at night.

When the pollenating insect populations and staple food stocks collapse (especially oceans)then we are going to know the true scale and horror of things.

We have already lost 97% of the worlds biodiversity. Go book a safari or trips to the rainforest(s) within the next couple few years, because it may be the last chance you get to see things in their natural state outside of some very well and specifically preserved sites.

Technology needs to start to advance very quickly and I assume we will see explosions in development of some areas when things get really, really visibly serious. At the moment the world governments and populations are still putting their heads in the sand, but that can't last for long.
Amen to the first three paragraphs. And I agree we would do well to recover a sense of awe at how much bigger the world is than just our own species. However, with all due respect and though I enjoyed my one and only visit to Africa in the last millennium no end: I‘m not sure booking a safari is the thing to do, given that it involves, er, non-essential flying. I‘d suggest seeing something closer to home, say the stags in the Aletsch region, or ibex and marmots in Val Trupchun, or kingfishers at La Sauge, or even just the dwindling glaciers. Morteratsch has signs documenting its melting. I admit it‘s kinda depressing. Then again, visiting the last free great apes might be even worse, given the prognosis.

The aspect I miss most in this whole discussion is that less is more and that some of the best solutions might be old-fashioned - and so simple, in principle, that technocrats find them laughable. Genetically modified crops are a hot topic, sure - but why are we discussing that, and not the glaringly obvious problem of food waste? Swiss consumers throw away an estimated one million tons of food a year. A number I found hard to believe at first, since it equals over 100 kg per capita, or over 2 kg a week. And that’s really just consumers, not shops or restaurants or carrots too crooked to be sold. Numbers here: https://www.bafu.admin.ch/bafu/de/ho...labfaelle.html On the other hand, there really are people who discard half their bread uneaten. I just tend to avoid them.

I don‘t believe in leaving such things to free markets any more. At least as long as environmental damage is not reflected in prices. I don‘t think free markets will get there any time soon. They don‘t have it in them. (Anyone who thinks different: please see „The Corporation.“) In them, consumers who do their best to avoid the conspicuous consumption we have come to regard as normal are considered anywhere between low-status and nuts. It takes guts. For a teen without a dedicated team of like-minded peers, it‘s close to impossible. Essentially, consumer culture has made addicts of most of us.
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Old 17.04.2021, 22:50
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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The scope is (at least) 124 years, all brought forth during that time are valid cases in the sense that they needed very-/falsification, just like Arrhenius did.
Yup. And just what were you implying by „science doesn‘t work that way“? Very sorry to insist, but that particular post of yours failed to meet even the standards of mansplaining
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  #75  
Old 18.04.2021, 07:39
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Amen to the first three paragraphs. And I agree we would do well to recover a sense of awe at how much bigger the world is than just our own species. However, with all due respect and though I enjoyed my one and only visit to Africa in the last millennium no end: I‘m not sure booking a safari is the thing to do, given that it involves, er, non-essential flying. I‘d suggest seeing something closer to home, say the stags in the Aletsch region, or ibex and marmots in Val Trupchun, or kingfishers at La Sauge, or even just the dwindling glaciers. Morteratsch has signs documenting its melting. I admit it‘s kinda depressing. Then again, visiting the last free great apes might be even worse, given the prognosis.

The aspect I miss most in this whole discussion is that less is more and that some of the best solutions might be old-fashioned - and so simple, in principle, that technocrats find them laughable. Genetically modified crops are a hot topic, sure - but why are we discussing that, and not the glaringly obvious problem of food waste? Swiss consumers throw away an estimated one million tons of food a year. A number I found hard to believe at first, since it equals over 100 kg per capita, or over 2 kg a week. And that’s really just consumers, not shops or restaurants or carrots too crooked to be sold. Numbers here: https://www.bafu.admin.ch/bafu/de/ho...labfaelle.html On the other hand, there really are people who discard half their bread uneaten. I just tend to avoid them.

I don‘t believe in leaving such things to free markets any more. At least as long as environmental damage is not reflected in prices. I don‘t think free markets will get there any time soon. They don‘t have it in them. (Anyone who thinks different: please see „The Corporation.“) In them, consumers who do their best to avoid the conspicuous consumption we have come to regard as normal are considered anywhere between low-status and nuts. It takes guts. For a teen without a dedicated team of like-minded peers, it‘s close to impossible. Essentially, consumer culture has made addicts of most of us.
I guess that it's not important that you agree with anyone's "non-essential flights" (are you really never going to take a flight to a holiday halfway around the world ever again? If so then that is extreme.) and going to see some Ibex is nothing even approaching the same as going to see the "Big Game" African wildlife. So, we have to agree to disagree there.
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Old 18.04.2021, 15:13
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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... the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster in 2011. The government has recently decided to dump the radioactive contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean ...
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Because the contamination is very low, so except using scary words "radioactivity" "Fukushima" and "Godzilla" there is not much to say.
Beijing tells Japanese politicians to drink Fukushima’s wastewater to prove it’s safe before they dump it into the ocean
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Old 18.04.2021, 17:03
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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not shops or restaurants or carrots too crooked to be sold.
Interesting report, but I don´t agree.
The amount households, and food stores and restaurants throw away is minute, relatively speaking. Produce that is too ugly or too crooked to be sold is processed, or where do you think soups and sauces and smoothies etc. come from?
And if even that is unusable then it gets converted to animal feed, the only bits that do get thrown away are inedible parts or which has been contaminated or spoiled and even then its off to the biogas plant.

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Old 18.04.2021, 17:25
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

Oh no. Water containing a bit of tritium (presumably in the form of heavy water) will be discharged into seawater. Gradually. Massively diluted.

We fill it with effluent, we dump plastics in it. We end up injesting nano and micro plastics, tuna is not recommend for pregnant women because of mercury levels. But tritium... nah, that'll kill us all. Even though the proposed levels are within safety levels already use for dumping in the sea, worldwide.

Oh I see. It's because all that tritium is mixed with dihydrogen oxide and oxygen dihydride - which does kill many people each year. That'll be where the worry is. And of course it's a government doing it, so they must be lying about safety, backed up by engineers and scientists who are in their pay.
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Old 18.04.2021, 19:27
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

At least the US and China can now agree on one thing. That something must be done. ASAP!
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/18/98849...=1618766750079
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Old 18.04.2021, 22:10
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Interesting report, but I don´t agree.
The amount households, and food stores and restaurants throw away is minute, relatively speaking. Produce that is too ugly or too crooked to be sold is processed, or where do you think soups and sauces and smoothies etc. come from?
And if even that is unusable then it gets converted to animal feed, the only bits that do get thrown away are inedible parts or which has been contaminated or spoiled and even then its off to the biogas plant.
How come you have better sources, and what are they? Have you ever seen the heaps of old bread in foodsharing pickup spots like these? https://foodsharing.network/?page=fairteiler&bid=108 I happen to know a couple of activists who go collecting unsold food from bakeries and so on. I know most people prefer to believe the problem doesn‘t exist. But it‘s right under our noses.
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