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  #81  
Old 18.04.2021, 22:24
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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I guess that it's not important that you agree with anyone's "non-essential flights" (are you really never going to take a flight to a holiday halfway around the world ever again? If so then that is extreme.) and going to see some Ibex is nothing even approaching the same as going to see the "Big Game" African wildlife. So, we have to agree to disagree there.
I‘m happy to disagree. As for „extreme“: We don‘t know what percentage of the world‘s population has ever set foot on a plane but estimates are pretty low, around 20%. So for 80% it‘s normal not even to do „love miles“.

The last time we flew was to Hawaii, in the second half of the last decade, for a conference that tempted us to add a holiday. In principle, I knew better, and had been flying considerably less than the average person from Switzerland for years. In practice, we got to see dead coral reefs. Ouch. That really brought it home. No more.

Inside Europe, we have travelled by train for decades, from Portugal to the Baltic Sea, the Med and the Arctic Circle; visited the UK four times in eight years, always by train. Japan is doable by the transsib and a ferry but will have to wait until after retirement. Today’s real luxury is time. Several friends and relatives (disproportionately physicists and other natural scientists, of course) stopped flying years before we did. It‘s both reasonable and doable and calling it „extreme“ sort of proves the point about our addictions and entitlement as a society. Of course, it helps that I have a strong personal preference for trains over air travel, all the more since motherhood
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Old 19.04.2021, 06:42
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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How come you have better sources, and what are they? Have you ever seen the heaps of old bread in foodsharing pickup spots like these? https://foodsharing.network/?page=fairteiler&bid=108 I happen to know a couple of activists who go collecting unsold food from bakeries and so on. I know most people prefer to believe the problem doesn‘t exist. But it‘s right under our noses.
Compared to the gross food production that what you see in the bakeries etc. is such a small amount as to be practically nothing, I do agree that more could be done though.
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  #83  
Old 19.04.2021, 06:56
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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I‘m happy to disagree. As for „extreme“: We don‘t know what percentage of the world‘s population has ever set foot on a plane but estimates are pretty low, around 20%. So for 80% it‘s normal not even to do „love miles“.

The last time we flew was to Hawaii, in the second half of the last decade, for a conference that tempted us to add a holiday. In principle, I knew better, and had been flying considerably less than the average person from Switzerland for years. In practice, we got to see dead coral reefs. Ouch. That really brought it home. No more.

Inside Europe, we have travelled by train for decades, from Portugal to the Baltic Sea, the Med and the Arctic Circle; visited the UK four times in eight years, always by train. Japan is doable by the transsib and a ferry but will have to wait until after retirement. Today’s real luxury is time. Several friends and relatives (disproportionately physicists and other natural scientists, of course) stopped flying years before we did. It‘s both reasonable and doable and calling it „extreme“ sort of proves the point about our addictions and entitlement as a society. Of course, it helps that I have a strong personal preference for trains over air travel, all the more since motherhood
If you want to inconvenience yourself to such a extent by travelling the world by land and sea then hey, knock yourself out... I don't find it impressive or noble, just outright silly when I think of the time and logistics involved in travelling thousands of miles.

Your levels of virtue signalling at the moment are, however, certainly very 'impressive'.

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  #84  
Old 19.04.2021, 07:49
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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I‘m happy to disagree.
Me too.

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Today’s real luxury is time.
Good for you seeing it like that. Most people I know, though, do worry about costs, too. I loved crossing the US on a train a few times. It was insanely costly compared to the air travel, but as a teacher, it was ok time wise, we are spoiled with time off. I don't know that many people who can avoid air-travel, and they are very green. Pushing on people to not fly isn't the way to help the planet from the worst, imho. I think it's only symbolic. Helping the poorest and most polluting areas is probably a better plan, but I am not sure how and when that will happen. We are almost all typing on cells made there.
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  #85  
Old 19.04.2021, 17:33
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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At least the US and China can now agree on one thing. That something must be done. ASAP!
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/18/98849...=1618766750079
Not much use unless it's made law, along with Paris Accord ratification. Until then there's bound to be the all-too-common in-out-in with every new POTUS.
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  #86  
Old 21.04.2021, 22:56
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Good for you seeing it like that. Most people I know, though, do worry about costs, too. I loved crossing the US on a train a few times. It was insanely costly compared to the air travel, but as a teacher, it was ok time wise, we are spoiled with time off. I don't know that many people who can avoid air-travel, and they are very green. Pushing on people to not fly isn't the way to help the planet from the worst, imho. I think it's only symbolic. Helping the poorest and most polluting areas is probably a better plan, but I am not sure how and when that will happen. We are almost all typing on cells made there.
Thanks. If people feel pushed, so be it. Just saying what I do. Yes, trains across the States are a unique experience; in the one between Chicago and LA, we got to speak an archaic form of Swiss dialect with several Amish travellers Interrail passes were the cheapest way to get around Europe when I was a student. I wish that kind of incentive would return. Putting it to good use left me with a life-long love of trains, especially sleepers. We find the compartments with showers extremely comfy.

Incidentally, you are spot on about our cells. (More virtue signalling: mine’s a Fairphone. The rest of the family gets theirs at Revendo, which is the less hard-core option and offers great value and guarantees. No need to buy a new iPhone.) Wouldn’t everyone agree that helping the poorest is important? Project Drawdown, which reviews „climate solutions“, explicitly mentions educating women: https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/health-and-education Easy contribution here: https://www.swissaid.ch/de/spenden-frauen-patenschaft/

To those who call walking the walk and reporting on it under provocation „virtue signalling“: why bother to read this thread if you‘re not interested in solutions? I still find it a positively decadent perspective to call not flying after fifty “extreme“. In my misspent youth, I got to do that so often that I‘m perfectly happy to let others take their turn at squeezing into sardine tins. When the kid is grown, she‘ll make her own decisions. Her dad still flies, very occasionally. I‘d be no good as a dictator. Still, I refuse to give up believing in rational arguments for no better reason than people wanting to feel good about looking the other way.
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Old 22.04.2021, 00:26
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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If you want to inconvenience yourself to such a extent by travelling the world by land and sea then hey, knock yourself out... I don't find it impressive or noble, just outright silly when I think of the time and logistics involved in travelling thousands of miles.
This constitutes more provocation, so here goes:

Writing about the Amish on the Southwest Chief got me remembering other moments. On the same train, there was a youngster with a guitar and a lovely voice singing folk classics like „Five hundred miles“, one of just a few non-Amish people in the lounge car. The Amish were such a cheerful bunch that they challenged all my prejudices about traditional religious communities (acquired mainly from a former fellow pupil from the Emmental). And they recognise and understand Swiss German! Add some odd scenes along the way: blinking, moving red lights in pitch-dark Kansas that turned out not to be UFOs but the rotating blades of wind turbines. And actual oil rigs in California, perhaps once in a lifetime. And oodles of surprisingly unspoiled coast. And stations that reminded me of the one in Chicago crumbling in Koyaanisqatsi.

Similarly surreal: the night train from Stockholm to Lulea in January. Incredibly vast, empty landscapes swishing by. Everything was blue: dark blue at night, a lighter blue during the brief daylight. The few houses we passed made a pretty contrast, all lit up with Christmas decorations in a warm yellow. On the same journey, we learned that the Sami language has several words for „we“: one for a we of two, and one for a we of more than two. It made sense. Other people are vitally important in that icy isolation.

Then there was the well-equipped Railjet night train from Zurich to Vienna, and another night train from there to Krakow, always with stops along the way. Krakow is a historical pearl. Like Ljubljana, which can be reached by a direct night train from Zurich. As can Berlin. They‘re also planning to reintroduce direct night trains to Amsterdam and Barcelona. We‘ll be boarding one. And a Caledonian sleeper, some day. Those probably have new-fangled wagons, but on night trains for locals like Wroclaw-Leba in Poland, they still had windows that opened and allowed us to hear the gulls and smell the sea quite recently. (They don‘t speak much English in Leba; OTOH they do in Ljubljana and Krakow.)

Travelling to Portugal by train does take a lot of time. But if one is into history and historical buildings, arriving at the blue-and-white-tiled station of Porto is worth it. As is the unexpected change from a TGV to a tiny narrow-gauge provincial train in a remote corner of the grand station at the French-Spanish border. Did I mention St Pancras yet? Beats Gatwick, beats Heathrow, beats Stansted. And when the sign at the French end of the Eurostar said „20 minutes de retard“, an impatient Englishman next to us grumbled: „it‘s retarded again!“

Admittedly, on the way back from Vienna the night train got stuck in Ötztal and became a day train. There was a threat of avalanches ahead. But now the kid knows where they found Ötzi. Ah, Europe.

And I actually have some hope in the new US President. Good morning, America, how are you? Don‘t you know me, I‘m your native son...

Forget „impressive or noble“, forget „silly“. I love the world, love slow travel and love actually seeing and hearing and smelling things. To each their own. I get no kick from a plane/flying too high with some guy in the sky/is my idea of NO-thing to doo! Resisting the urge to start quoting German poetry here. Goodness knows what you mercilessly utilitarian Anglo-Saxons would think that was signalling If anyone wants to jump on a train: www.seat61.com.

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Old 22.04.2021, 00:46
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Compared to the gross food production that what you see in the bakeries etc. is such a small amount as to be practically nothing, I do agree that more could be done though.
Indeed it could. People are trying: https://foodwaste.ch/was-ist-food-waste/ (in German) Strange how the stats agree, no? Do you have credible sources or is it a case of „weil nicht sein kann, was nicht sein darf“? (From a poem by Morgenstern. „For, he reasons pointedly, that which must not, cannot be.“)
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  #89  
Old 22.04.2021, 06:50
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Indeed it could. People are trying: https://foodwaste.ch/was-ist-food-waste/ (in German) Strange how the stats agree, no? Do you have credible sources or is it a case of „weil nicht sein kann, was nicht sein darf“? (From a poem by Morgenstern. „For, he reasons pointedly, that which must not, cannot be.“)
Well a lot is common sense and having worked in the food industry I find there is a lot of populist misinformation on the subject of food waste.
But try this:
https://www.boredpanda.com/crop-scie...mpaign=organic
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Old 22.04.2021, 09:25
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

When I was growing up, I was told to eat all the food on my plate because some poor were starving somewhere in the world. Now kids have to be told that the world is in danger if they don't eat.
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Old 22.04.2021, 09:36
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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When I was growing up, I was told to eat all the food on my plate because some poor were starving somewhere in the world. Now kids have to be told that the world is in danger if they don't eat.

Including the broccoli ??
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Old 22.04.2021, 09:55
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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When I was growing up, I was told to eat all the food on my plate because some poor were starving somewhere in the world. Now kids have to be told that the world is in danger if they don't eat.
Yep, and even as a small child that explanation did not make sense to me!
A bit later I turned to the rule if I served myself I must eat up, if someone else served me, I stop eating when I'm sated. I stuck to that one up until today but learnt fast to adapt the portions.

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Including the broccoli ??
Yes! Kids today will throw around words like force feeding, child assault, oppression and threaten to take their parents to court. Lucky bas**rds.

I developed this very deadly look to stop anyone from putting Broccoli on my plate.
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Old 22.04.2021, 10:02
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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When I was growing up, I was told to eat all the food on my plate because some poor were starving somewhere in the world. Now kids have to be told that the world is in danger if they don't eat.
Wow, such abstract reasoning asked from a child.
I was told to eat the food on my plate because someone (mom) has prepared it and it's utterly impolite and mean to make a mockery of her work. And I'm too skinny.
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Old 22.04.2021, 10:22
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Incidentally, you are spot on about our cells. (More virtue signalling: mine’s a Fairphone.
As per virtue-signallers go - I like you. You reason and give personal experiences and practical tips, it sounds like you live what you preach. Kudos.

Your reality is not mine, affordability to be green comes to mind again, but I appreciate you sharing.
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Old 22.04.2021, 10:25
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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This constitutes more provocation, so here goes:

Writing about the Amish on the Southwest Chief got me remembering other moments. On the same train, there was a youngster with a guitar and a lovely voice singing folk classics like „Five hundred miles“, one of just a few non-Amish people in the lounge car. The Amish were such a cheerful bunch that they challenged all my prejudices about traditional religious communities (acquired mainly from a former fellow pupil from the Emmental). And they recognise and understand Swiss German! Add some odd scenes along the way: blinking, moving red lights in pitch-dark Kansas that turned out not to be UFOs but the rotating blades of wind turbines. And actual oil rigs in California, perhaps once in a lifetime. And oodles of surprisingly unspoiled coast. And stations that reminded me of the one in Chicago crumbling in Koyaanisqatsi.

Similarly surreal: the night train from Stockholm to Lulea in January. Incredibly vast, empty landscapes swishing by. Everything was blue: dark blue at night, a lighter blue during the brief daylight. The few houses we passed made a pretty contrast, all lit up with Christmas decorations in a warm yellow. On the same journey, we learned that the Sami language has several words for „we“: one for a we of two, and one for a we of more than two. It made sense. Other people are vitally important in that icy isolation.

Then there was the well-equipped Railjet night train from Zurich to Vienna, and another night train from there to Krakow, always with stops along the way. Krakow is a historical pearl. Like Ljubljana, which can be reached by a direct night train from Zurich. As can Berlin. They‘re also planning to reintroduce direct night trains to Amsterdam and Barcelona. We‘ll be boarding one. And a Caledonian sleeper, some day. Those probably have new-fangled wagons, but on night trains for locals like Wroclaw-Leba in Poland, they still had windows that opened and allowed us to hear the gulls and smell the sea quite recently. (They don‘t speak much English in Leba; OTOH they do in Ljubljana and Krakow.)

Travelling to Portugal by train does take a lot of time. But if one is into history and historical buildings, arriving at the blue-and-white-tiled station of Porto is worth it. As is the unexpected change from a TGV to a tiny narrow-gauge provincial train in a remote corner of the grand station at the French-Spanish border. Did I mention St Pancras yet? Beats Gatwick, beats Heathrow, beats Stansted. And when the sign at the French end of the Eurostar said „20 minutes de retard“, an impatient Englishman next to us grumbled: „it‘s retarded again!“

Admittedly, on the way back from Vienna the night train got stuck in Ötztal and became a day train. There was a threat of avalanches ahead. But now the kid knows where they found Ötzi. Ah, Europe.

And I actually have some hope in the new US President. Good morning, America, how are you? Don‘t you know me, I‘m your native son...

Forget „impressive or noble“, forget „silly“. I love the world, love slow travel and love actually seeing and hearing and smelling things. To each their own. I get no kick from a plane/flying too high with some guy in the sky/is my idea of NO-thing to doo! Resisting the urge to start quoting German poetry here. Goodness knows what you mercilessly utilitarian Anglo-Saxons would think that was signalling If anyone wants to jump on a train: www.seat61.com.
Loved this post.
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Old 22.04.2021, 10:31
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Wow, such abstract reasoning asked from a child.
I was told to eat the food on my plate because someone (mom) has prepared it and it's utterly impolite and mean to make a mockery of her work. And I'm too skinny.
Yeah, that makes sense. I would have gone for that one at the age of 4 I guess.

But the "you must overeat because an African kid is starving" seems to have been a wide spread logic.
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Old 22.04.2021, 11:07
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Oh no. Water containing a bit of tritium (presumably in the form of heavy water) will be discharged into seawater.
Seawater is naturally full of tritium.

Tom
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Old 22.04.2021, 13:52
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Loved this post.
I second that.

Whoever called her contributions Virtue Signalling was writing nonsense, and if they can't see that there is some strange bias at play or logic is an issue.
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Old 22.04.2021, 15:23
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

I migrated to Switzerland to get away from this woke BS.
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Old 23.04.2021, 00:00
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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I second that.

Whoever called her contributions Virtue Signalling was writing nonsense, and if they can't see that there is some strange bias at play or logic is an issue.
Indeed. It made me smile actually because the original poster was only talking about her trips and her reasons (and reasoning) for choosing certain means of transportation, she didn't scold or criticise anyone. I think it was rather inspiring, not critical. I enjoyed reading those memories. But people use this expression on every occasion they get...well at least here. Social media is not a very kind place. (I'm telling nothing new lol)
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will the climate change convention be any different to any other? ladylou International affairs/politics 13 07.12.2009 17:47


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