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  #121  
Old 05.04.2021, 14:51
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

A few countries have done incredibly well innoculating their citizens. My son, in Vail CO, has the possibility to get vaccinated now. He's under 25 and enjoying a life of no masks anymore.

It's time to let these people travel and get the economy going again.

Switzerland's vaccination program is moving at a snail's pace.
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  #122  
Old 05.04.2021, 14:52
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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I swear I read as literal statement that as of december 2020 none of them had started phase 3 on the main wikipedia article but don't see it now.

However:



is the crux of it. You are saying that acting on preliminary and partial data means it is tested well. I say that is poorly or at least unsifficiently tested (especially since the vaccines themselves are rushed, requiring a hightened burden of proof if anything).

They are approved for political reasons and political reasons alone.
We are in the height of a pandemic that is causing a significant and in some cases crippling impact on health services, economies and travel and you say that the 'only' reason that we were fast to product and approve vaccines is for... political reasons? I mean seriously, wtf.

Truly this thread contains some highly delusional and worryingly irrational people.
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  #123  
Old 05.04.2021, 15:05
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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You are saying that acting on preliminary and partial data means it is tested well. I say that is poorly or at least unsifficiently tested (especially since the vaccines themselves are rushed, requiring a hightened burden of proof if anything).

They are approved for political reasons and political reasons alone.
Under normal circumstances trials are longer but study groups are much much smaller.
The trials were carried out on an enormous scale and incredible amounts of data collected. None of them would have been approved if there was insufficient data available, it just wouldn’t have been worth the risk.

Ongoing trials just serve to provide more data and include different patient populations.
Trials are now ongoing for younger age groups including children.
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  #124  
Old 05.04.2021, 15:07
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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A few countries have done incredibly well innoculating their citizens. My son, in Vail CO, has the possibility to get vaccinated now. He's under 25 and enjoying a life of no masks anymore.

It's time to let these people travel and get the economy going again.

Switzerland's vaccination program is moving at a snail's pace.
An American friend who lives in Zurich has just had J&J in Southern California, very easy to arrange.
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  #125  
Old 05.04.2021, 15:08
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Truly this thread contains some highly delusional and worryingly irrational people.
Indeed
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  #126  
Old 05.04.2021, 16:41
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Switzerland's vaccination program is moving at a snail's pace.
Actually Switzerland is having serious challenges obtaining the vaccines they have contracted for. In fact at the time they ordered they came under intense criticism for buying up all the available supplies.

Any funnily enough some countries have no problems ...

I wonder why that is?
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  #127  
Old 05.04.2021, 17:55
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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We are in the height of a pandemic that is causing a significant and in some cases crippling impact on health services, economies and travel and you say that the 'only' reason that we were fast to product and approve vaccines is for... political reasons? I mean seriously, wtf.

Truly this thread contains some highly delusional and worryingly irrational people.
So? Open up every country tmw and stop all the measures.
THAT is the solution.
The choice to not do that is a political decision.

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Under normal circumstances trials are longer but study groups are much much smaller.
The trials were carried out on an enormous scale and incredible amounts of data collected. None of them would have been approved if there was insufficient data available, it just wouldn’t have been worth the risk.

Ongoing trials just serve to provide more data and include different patient populations.
Trials are now ongoing for younger age groups including children.
You cannot make things go faster at the same quality level simply by throwing more people at it. It's similar to trying to have a child. Having more sex after the woman is pregnant will not make the child be born any faster.
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  #128  
Old 05.04.2021, 18:09
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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So? Open up every country tmw and stop all the measures.
THAT is the solution.
The choice to not do that is a political decision.

You cannot make things go faster at the same quality level simply by throwing more people at it. It's similar to trying to have a child. Having more sex after the woman is pregnant will not make the child be born any faster.
You're either a troll, or genuinely stupid. I can't decide which.
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  #129  
Old 05.04.2021, 18:26
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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You're either a troll, or genuinely stupid. I can't decide which.
I vote for the former, nobody can be that stupid.
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  #130  
Old 05.04.2021, 18:52
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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So? Open up every country tmw and stop all the measures.
THAT is the solution.
The choice to not do that is a political decision.



You cannot make things go faster at the same quality level simply by throwing more people at it. It's similar to trying to have a child. Having more sex after the woman is pregnant will not make the child be born any faster.
You clearly have no clue how clinical trials work so there is no point trying to have a discussion with you.

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You're either a troll, or genuinely stupid. I can't decide which.
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I vote for the former, nobody can be that stupid.
Yep, I’m inclined towards the troll option too.
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  #131  
Old 05.04.2021, 19:05
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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You're either a troll, or genuinely stupid. I can't decide which.
Come on, mods said critical thinkers enrich the discussion
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  #132  
Old 05.04.2021, 19:07
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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come on, a mod said critical thinkers enrich the discussion
ftfy.
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  #133  
Old 05.04.2021, 19:07
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Yep, I’m inclined towards the troll option too.
Given the user name he seems to be Dutch and in Holland we have a word for it: Wappie or Coronawappie. Not sure how to best translate it.
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  #134  
Old 05.04.2021, 21:12
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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So the fact that you are young and consider the risk of taking a rushed, poorly tested vaccine larger than the risk of a virus with a mortality rate per age group similar to influenza, means you are not fond of travel?

I'm innoculated for dangerous deseases, which I have a fair chance of getting and with tried and true tested vaccines (in use for 10+ years). All 3 requirements must be met for taking the vaccine to be rational. Corona, Covid-19 specifically, only fullfills one of the requirements (fair chance of getting) so I'll pass.

What's with people calling something a vaccine makes people hear "magic potion"? For each available vaccine (there are many deseases with vaccines for which you are not innolulated I'm sure!) one must consider its merits and demerits to decide whether one should take it or not.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion but you really should not make fact-free claims like "a mortality rate per age group similar to influenza" and so ruin your case.
Here is a report from a respected medical magazine, Lancet, from last December about mortality rates.
Some gems from the report;
In-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza (15 104 [16·9%] of 89 530 vs 2640 [5·8%] of 45 819); so around three times higher than the mortality rate of flu.
A larger proportion of patients younger than 5 years needed intensive care support for COVID-19 than for influenza [2·3%] vs [0·9%].
In adolescents (11–17 years), the in-hospital mortality was ten-times higher for COVID-19 than for influenza.
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  #135  
Old 05.04.2021, 21:16
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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I think we could all take a lesson from Denmark, they’ve said that once the vaccine has been offered to everyone over 50 them the country will reopen fully (Note offered not taken). A sensible approach rather than authoritarian vaccine passports.
Sadly yet another TC fact free claim
Denmark plans to use its "Coronapas" vaccine passport domestically from Easter - but it could also be used later as a tool for international travel.
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  #136  
Old 05.04.2021, 21:26
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Having unpopular ideas needs a bit of courage and sometimes stubbornness. Saying something unpopular, getting unfavorable reactions, then telling people is mean and I better run from here......that kind of critical thinkers are not needed. Useful critical thinkers have a spine.
Unpopular ideas are fine but when they run opposite to results from scientific research then their proponents must accept that they have an uphill struggle in front of them.
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  #137  
Old 05.04.2021, 21:33
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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For what reason would anyone be exempt from the vaccine? There's multiple vaccines and none of them are live vaccines.
From the BAG.ch web site
The following persons should not be vaccinated against COVID-19 with the approved Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines:

Individuals with a severe, confirmed allergy to one of the vaccine’s components (especially PEG).

For the following persons vaccination against COVID-19 is not recommended:

Children and young people below the age of 16. No study data is available for this age group at present.
Pregnant women. The current overall recommendation is to not vaccinate pregnant women. There is not sufficient data available on the inoculation of pregnant women at present. However, in the case of certain chronic illnesses with a high risk of a severe course of a Covid-19 illness, a vaccination might be advisable.
If you are pregnant and suffer from a chronic illness, please consult your doctor.
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  #138  
Old 05.04.2021, 22:23
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

So far as Switzerland is confirmed it is likely to be overtaken by events if and when the surrounding countries demand
proof of vaccination before entry.

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I see a serious obstacle in carrying an open and accessible document.
You seem to miss the fact that here in Switzerland when you are vaccinated they are supposed to update your personal vaccination record card (Impfausweis, Certificat de vaccination, Certificato di vaccinazione).
It is already recommended you carry this card with you in case you have an emergency visit to the hospital.

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I asked whether I was due for a tetanus vaccine jab when I last saw the my Doctor,
The UK never recommended a 10-year renewal jab.

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Er, have you had your pill for the flu,
They are already testing nasal sprays for COVID-19 vaccination, then it goes straight to the appropriate cells.

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How will anyone pose a threat to those vaccinated?
No vaccine manufacturer has ever claimed their product gives 100% protection against infection from any disease.
For COVID-19 they do claim it fully protects against hospitalisation and death.

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A virus like that is highly unlikely to develop naturally since a parasitic lifeform needs hosts to survive and reproduce.
A virus is not a parasite.
Extremely deadly ones like the Marburg-Virus and Ebola tend to kill their hosts very quickly and then burn out.
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  #139  
Old 06.04.2021, 01:20
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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A virus is not a parasite.
Extremely deadly ones like the Marburg-Virus and Ebola tend to kill their hosts very quickly and then burn out.
I didn't write it is a parasite. I wrote it's a parasitic lifeform. A parasitic lifeform cannot reproduce without the help of a host organism of another species. So any virus is a parasitic lifeform by definition.

Other than that: I initially announced to withdraw from the discussion. Then was challenged that was weak so continued to only respond to reactions directly to me. I'll discontinue that as well from now on and I should have stuck with my original plan (as in this was a waste of time).

Always ironic that those that most resort to insults and personal attacks are exactly the ones with the worst (usually none) argumentation in their posts. As you might have noticed I didn't as much as groan at anyone.
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  #140  
Old 06.04.2021, 08:06
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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A few countries have done incredibly well innoculating their citizens. My son, in Vail CO, has the possibility to get vaccinated now. He's under 25 and enjoying a life of no masks anymore.

It's time to let these people travel and get the economy going again.

Switzerland's vaccination program is moving at a snail's pace.
Unfortunately way too slow for our expectations... But let's hope they'll speed up the process as soon as they get more vaccines because I think this is the real cause - lack of sufficient doses.

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Yep, I’m inclined towards the troll option too.
Trolls should be ignored not argued with them ad infinitum. This is not like a tv show where you have one guest in favour of measures/mass vaccination and the other one against the measures/mass vaccination because it does not reflect the ongoing debates among the experts. And why should I trust more random strangers' opinions. Media and social media have both contributed to mass disinformation during pandemic. As if things weren't bad enough.

Last edited by greenmount; 06.04.2021 at 08:25.
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