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  #161  
Old 06.04.2021, 17:36
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

I apologize if this has been mentioned before and I missed it, when I was vaccinated I was given an information sheet about the Swiss electronic vaccination passport "myCOVIDvac.ch" (see attachment). This electronic passport is meant to be an official vaccination record that is accessible from anywhere, and can be shared with doctors or pharmacists.

The information sheet included a note saying (my translation from French) "If eventually an international certificate for COVID vaccination is required for travel in certain countries or by certain airline companies, your information could serve as a base for this international vaccination certificate, or «WHO smart yellow card» ".

To me it seems clear that they aren't banking on people using their paper vaccination records for travel purposes, but are anticipating some internationally recognized electronic means of validation of vaccination. I guess this is what they mean when they refer to a «WHO smart yellow card».

Funnily enough, I went to mesvaccins.ch to see what information I could find regarding my personal vaccination record and it seems the site has been temporarily suspended due to security concerns.
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Last edited by Bossa Nova; 06.04.2021 at 17:54.
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  #162  
Old 06.04.2021, 17:43
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Absolute Nonsense!

The Swiss Impfausweiss is an "international Certificate of Vaccination" so conforms to worldwide standards and is accepted everywhere even for proof of yellow fever vaccination which is one of the most stringent.
Marton, on the inside page of that yellow booklet it says “The only disease specifically designated in the International Regulations (2005) for which proof of vaccination or prophylaxis may be required as a condition of entry to a State Party is yellow fever.”

So until the WHO decides to designate Covid-19 and the regulations are amended it is not actually valid for anything other than yellow fever.

And due to the increasing cases of forged documents governments will want something a little more secure than a paper document with little stickers in it.
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  #163  
Old 06.04.2021, 18:16
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Marton, on the inside page of that yellow booklet it says “The only disease specifically designated in the International Regulations (2005) for which proof of vaccination or prophylaxis may be required as a condition of entry to a State Party is yellow fever.”

So until the WHO decides to designate Covid-19 and the regulations are amended it is not actually valid for anything other than yellow fever.

And due to the increasing cases of forged documents governments will want something a little more secure than a paper document with little stickers in it.
Oh dear! Countries can make their own rules, they do not have to wait for WHO.

For example, the following certificates are accepted at the borders of Iceland for exemption of presenting a negative PCR-test and quarantine:

Certificates from the World Health Organization (WHO) (the International Certificate of Vaccination or the Carte Jaune/Yellow Card) is also accepted for vaccines the WHO has validated

I am sure you are correct that governments will want something else that they can use an excuse to charge hefty sums for providing.
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  #164  
Old 06.04.2021, 18:36
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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I am sure you are correct that governments will want something else that they can use an excuse to charge hefty sums for providing.
Unless someone like IATA can develop an international standard first. And theirs will be free.
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  #165  
Old 06.04.2021, 18:37
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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...... We don’t have one of those so that would be difficult to do.
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Except that unlike the much mooted vaccine passport, it will most likely not be recognised outside Switzerland
and therefore not be a quick remedy for opening up business and tourist travel again.
Just get an international one.

I've travelled the world with this one to loads of countries which insist on certain vaccine. It was accepted and checked everywhere.

Covid is not the first vaccine and neither the first compulsory one to enter countries. But of course, anybody who wants to make this a problem ....
That is where my vaccines are and will be recorded. Only.
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  #166  
Old 06.04.2021, 18:46
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Unless someone like IATA can develop an international standard first. And theirs will be free.
If you see my post above, the WHO seems to be in the works to develop a "smart yellow card" electronic vaccination record, which I assume is meant to become the internationally recognized standard.
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  #167  
Old 06.04.2021, 19:59
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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If you see my post above, the WHO seems to be in the works to develop a "smart yellow card" electronic vaccination record, which I assume is meant to become the internationally recognized standard.
There are already over ten countries accepting the yellow card as proof of COVID-19 vaccinations for easy entry.
By the time WHO gets off the pot it will all be over.
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  #168  
Old 06.04.2021, 20:38
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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There are already over ten countries accepting the yellow card as proof of COVID-19 vaccinations for easy entry.
Oh lord, I could probably knock off a load of those on my printer. Anything on paper is going to be a counterfeiter's dream.
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  #169  
Old 06.04.2021, 20:48
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Oh lord, I could probably knock off a load of those on my printer. Anything on paper is going to be a counterfeiter's dream.
Do try it, I will send a food parcel to your prison.
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  #170  
Old 06.04.2021, 20:52
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

The counterfeiters are not the ones that would be using the forged documents.
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  #171  
Old 06.04.2021, 20:54
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Oh lord, I could probably knock off a load of those on my printer. Anything on paper is going to be a counterfeiter's dream.
Speaking of which, my sister in the US just had the J&J vaccine and said she was given a flimsy paper receipt with a handwritten note to "certify" her vaccination. I think counterfeits may run amok. The NYT just ran an article urging people to keep their vaccination cards; I wonder how many have done so...

My sister was incredulous when I told her my plan to go back to the US and get a J&J shot as maybe I would be relieved of getting a PCR test on return to Zurich with a vaccination receipt in hand.

Her comments and I quote, "Are you sure about this? My vaccine record is on a flimsy sheet of paper. Do you think airlines and Zurich security will accept a slip of paper with a signature from a pharmacy in the US as documentation?"

Food for thought and then some...
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  #172  
Old 06.04.2021, 21:13
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Speaking of which, my sister in the US just had the J&J vaccine and said she was given a flimsy paper receipt with a handwritten note to "certify" her vaccination. I think counterfeits may run amok. The NYT just ran an article urging people to keep their vaccination cards; I wonder how many have done so...

My sister was incredulous when I told her my plan to go back to the US and get a J&J shot as maybe I would be relieved of getting a PCR test on return to Zurich with a vaccination receipt in hand.

Her comments and I quote, "Are you sure about this? My vaccine record is on a flimsy sheet of paper. Do you think airlines and Zurich security will accept a slip of paper with a signature from a pharmacy in the US as documentation?"

Food for thought and then some...
True, the US is getting evermore like a third-world country.
Even Mexico has a central registry of the people vaccinated against COVID.
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  #173  
Old 06.04.2021, 22:15
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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The counterfeiters are not the ones that would be using the forged documents.
You believe the counterfeiters will forge their own "get out of jail free" cards?
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  #174  
Old 06.04.2021, 23:24
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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It's a choice. I repeat that there should be no compulsion to be vaccinated just as there's no compulsion to get a passport. My older brother is in his 70s and has never had a passport as he's never been bothered about travelling outside the country he was born in. It may seem odd to the expats and inveterate travellers on this forum but there are plenty of people like that. Apparently only 25% or so of Americans have passports, presumably for the same reason. Regarding Covid, as I said earlier, if enterprising owners want to have "no vaccination needed" access to their restaurants and bars, that's totally fine by me, as long as that's made clear on the door. I would avoid these places like, er, the plague while others would be happy to use them. (I feel the same way about allowing smoking in some bars even though I don't smoke myself.)

All that said, while people (and we're talking here about adults over a certain age) shouldn't be forced to get their jab, I seriously wonder what the hell is wrong with people who won't do it in the interests of the greater good. People who have a morbid fear of syringes could, I'm sure, have the serum administered in another way. People who think that the jab is going to pump their bodies full of demons, or a poison more dangerous than Covid itself need to get a freakin' grip. There are plenty of things we all do which are a bit inconvenient for us but which we do to add to the greater good of the world at large, like not playing our Led Zeppelin records at high volume at 4 in the morning.

Ultimately, we need to reduce the spread of the virus, and even if we decide that we personally have a divine immunity to infection, and therefore an inability to pass it on to others more vulnerable than ourselves, I still think we should go ahead and get the jab. This doesn't affect my position that people should not be forced to have it, but unless you've a genuine medical issue that prevents it, just go ahead and get it for heaven's sake, and let's stop wasting energy on these ever-decreasing circles of moral philosophy.


Because it's not all about me. Collectively, we should want to exterminate or massively reduce the spread of Covid. Even with the jab, there are many ways of passing the virus on to others so ultimately we should want to cooperate and support each other to reduce its transmission.



Fair enough, that's your political view and you're entitled to it. I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy with the 'big government' psychosis. It's a social and political contract. I pay my taxes and try not to be anti-social (outside EF at least). In return, those evil buggers up there build roads and keep them clear of snow, and provide a lot of other stuff that eases my life including hospitals, schools and a police force. I'm way past the point where I worry that all politicians are conspiring together to work out how to read my very tedious, whiney emails. They're welcome to them all as long as they work out how to make and distribute vaccines that allow me to visit my elderly relatives in Manchester and Glasgow.



Well I don't know what sort of bulletproof guarantee you expect for a new vaccine. None is available for vaccines that have been with us for decades. But you're right -- one approach is to withhold the vaccine rollout for perhaps, what, ten years? Twenty? At the end of that period we can assess the results. Alternatively, we can grow up and accept that life has never been, and never will be, free from risk. We can decide that we should be constructive members of the community and not perennial thorns in its side. We can consider the possibility that the risk of taking the vaccine might actually be smaller than allowing the virus to continue its rampage across the globe. It's already killed 3 million people worldwide. Let's make it 30 million, 300 million. Alternative, we could agree to stop moaning and take the damn vaccine. The choice is yours. I've made my own mind up.
Life has never been to quote you "free from risk". But one needs to weigh the risks with the population at large and for me, the so-called "risks" - mortality are not worth the long-term risks to our children/progeny - notwithstanding the economy/unintended consequences from an economy derailed -nor a vaccine/s (by its rushed protocol) which has no long term efficacy. As I have mentioned before: suicides, depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence have all increased due to COVID lockdown/measures.

As a percentage, very few are affected by this virus given the general populace - so why the fear exactly?

Personally, I think far too many are reading the newspapers (which make their revenue sadly on fear and clickbait) and not looking at the stats.

There should be no moral obligation to take a vaccine. If the vaccine works, then those most vulnerable should take it and be protected ..no? Why should everyone take a vaccine which has not been thoroughly tested to protect a minority of the populace?

We never did this regarding the flu regarding the elderly and those most compromised in previous years; tell me how this "pandemic" now classified as "endemic" (ie, it is here to stay) by the CDC is any different?
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  #175  
Old 07.04.2021, 07:17
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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You believe the counterfeiters will forge their own "get out of jail free" cards?
They aren’t stupid enough to use them themselves. They are selling them to others at high prices. Over €100 in France reportedly.
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  #176  
Old 07.04.2021, 08:35
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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Life has never been to quote you "free from risk". But one needs to weigh the risks with the population at large and for me, the so-called "risks" - mortality are not worth the long-term risks to our children/progeny - notwithstanding the economy/unintended consequences from an economy derailed -nor a vaccine/s (by its rushed protocol) which has no long term efficacy. As I have mentioned before: suicides, depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence have all increased due to COVID lockdown/measures.

As a percentage, very few are affected by this virus given the general populace - so why the fear exactly?

Personally, I think far too many are reading the newspapers (which make their revenue sadly on fear and clickbait) and not looking at the stats.

There should be no moral obligation to take a vaccine. If the vaccine works, then those most vulnerable should take it and be protected ..no? Why should everyone take a vaccine which has not been thoroughly tested to protect a minority of the populace?

We never did this regarding the flu regarding the elderly and those most compromised in previous years; tell me how this "pandemic" now classified as "endemic" (ie, it is here to stay) by the CDC is any different?
Exactly, this is what is known as the "precautionary principle" and it has become the most intrusive and obstructive philosophy of our times. So much that is Covid related is put in place "just in case". No risk analysis, no transparency, no plausibility check, everything vague and unscientific.

It's why we've been told to wear masks outdoors in spite there having been very little scientific evidence that viruses transmit significantly outside. Just in case. We now know that outdoor transmission of Covid accounts for about 0.1% of transmission, yet some countries are still talking about enforcing holiday makers to wear a mask on the beach, just in case

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ases-1.4529036

The same goes for domestic vaccine passports, people are calling for these in spite of there being virtually no evidence that they will reduce transmission. Thankfully for now, the WHO agrees and are not recommending their use. The US has also wisely ruled out their use within the last day.

After the vaccine has been made available to all the vulnerable groups, people need to be trusted again. The world is full of risks and we need to treat Covid in a world where a vaccine is available as just another risk.
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Old 07.04.2021, 09:57
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

The White House has ruled out the idea of mandatory US Covid-19 vaccination passports saying citizens privacy
and rights should be protected.

BBC News Covid: US rules out federal vaccine passports
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  #178  
Old 07.04.2021, 10:47
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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We now know that outdoor transmission of Covid accounts for about 0.1% of transmission.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ases-1.4529036
From your link "20 percent of all cases result from community transmission where the source of the infection is not known."
You do not consider this makes your 0.1% claim unreliable
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  #179  
Old 07.04.2021, 10:51
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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From your link "20 percent of all cases result from community transmission where the source of the infection is not known."
You do not consider this makes your 0.1% claim unreliable
Perhaps you should address this to the Irish Times instead of Tonyclifton.
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  #180  
Old 07.04.2021, 10:52
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Re: Controversy surrounding the introduction of Covid Passports

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We never did this regarding the flu regarding the elderly and those most compromised in previous years; tell me how this "pandemic" now classified as "endemic" (ie, it is here to stay) by the CDC is any different?
There is and was a vaccine for flu for a long time, now there is a vaccine for COVID so then hopefully in the future it will be treated no differently from flu. This depends, of course, on a good take-up of the new vaccine.
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