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  #21  
Old 05.05.2021, 12:51
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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the rise of fascism

st2lemans - groans again. Does that mean Tom, that you support fascisim and are happy that it raises it's ugly head again?
What are you on about? It's been there for decades. The AfD has even become "stubenrein" (housetrained) and part of the German Bundestag

Couldn't watch your mysterious link, it's facebookers only and I'm not part of that crowd.
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  #22  
Old 05.05.2021, 14:09
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The article reported that many hooligans took part in the demonstration. There seems to be a correlation.... stupidity, boredom and the need to be acknowledged (my words).
The article you posted is dated April 2019, though, so clearly not talking about the same demo, which took place just a few days ago. The explanations therein aren't really particularly detailed either.

But in essence right-wing parties continue to exist in many European (and other) countries, and one has to realise that in Italy, the birthplace of the Fascist movement, it was never seen as such a bad thing as the German Nazi party. I'm no supporter of it, but the knee-jerk reaction shown by some people, including the OP of this thread, seems to be on a level that would be appropriate if we were talking about neo-nazis in Germany - just because they're politically right-wing and used the Roman salute doesn't make these guys the same.
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  #23  
Old 05.05.2021, 14:22
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The article reported that many hooligans took part in the demonstration. There seems to be a correlation.... stupidity, boredom and the need to be acknowledged (my words).
In other words, just another basket of deplorables.

Surely, that'll teach them and make them change their ways.
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  #24  
Old 05.05.2021, 15:44
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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In other words, just another basket of deplorables.

Surely, that'll teach them and make them change their ways.
I'd bet a couple beers that Italians have more colorful names for the people that miss the times of a puppet dictator supported by a foreign army. Hunger, persecution, death. No need to rely on Anglicisms and shoehorn US politics. Anyone familiar with those words?
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  #25  
Old 05.05.2021, 16:48
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

The kind of vid that makes me want to load up on cal.9 parabellum because, that day will come.
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  #26  
Old 05.05.2021, 17:16
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The kind of vid that makes me want to load up on cal.9 parabellum because, that day will come.
That exact sentence could as well have come from one of them
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Old 05.05.2021, 17:24
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The kind of vid that makes me want to load up on cal.9 parabellum because, that day will come.
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That exact sentence could as well have come from one of them
Makes sense seeing as it comes from "Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you want peace, prepare for war"
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  #28  
Old 05.05.2021, 17:29
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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Makes sense seeing as it comes from "Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you want peace, prepare for war"
I think you give Uncle Groove too much credit there, thats a bit of a stretch from your quote to his statement.

Btw: That quote reminds me to buy that TW Rome1 Remaster.
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  #29  
Old 05.05.2021, 17:55
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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I'd bet a couple beers that Italians have more colorful names for the people that miss the times of a puppet dictator supported by a foreign army. Hunger, persecution, death. No need to rely on Anglicisms and shoehorn US politics. Anyone familiar with those words?
So hooligan is an Italian term?

LMAO, at the very least be consistent.

That said, fascism or something fairly close to that was always part of Italian postwar politics. Just like communism, though tellingly the murders and genocides committed under that flag seem to be of no concern to you.
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  #30  
Old 05.05.2021, 18:48
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The kind of vid that makes me want to load up on cal.9 parabellum because, that day will come.
You'll be fine living in Switzerland.
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  #31  
Old 05.05.2021, 19:06
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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So hooligan is an Italian term?

LMAO, at the very least be consistent.

That said, fascism or something fairly close to that was always part of Italian postwar politics. Just like communism, though tellingly the murders and genocides committed under that flag seem to be of no concern to you.
I did not write hooligans anywhere Also, I think deplorables is a dumb term, even in the US.

Back to Italy, the guys in the photo showed support for B. Mussolini in Milano, a week after Italy celebrated Liberation Day and presumably they just went back home after that. Nothing else happened. That shows respect to civil liberties, even for stuff like that.

About communism, I wouldn't give too much importance to how a dictator self-describes (communist, revolutionary, liberator). Some tell fairy tales about nationalism others fairy tales about communism, but they're leading oppressive regimes anyway.
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  #32  
Old 05.05.2021, 21:43
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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I did not write hooligans anywhere Also, I think deplorables is a dumb term, even in the US.
Nor did I say you did. Nor do I think you're unaware, you're just trying to deflect.

Not just that term, identity politics (IP) altogether is dumb, "basket of deplorables" is just useful to demonstrate the idiocy. It may well have led to Biden's outright racist "if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump then you ain’t black", demonstrating quite succinctly what IP is likely to lead to.
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Back to Italy, the guys in the photo showed support for B. Mussolini in Milano, a week after Italy celebrated Liberation Day and presumably they just went back home after that. Nothing else happened. That shows respect to civil liberties, even for stuff like that.
Agreed. Not good but it's everybody's right to express their opinion. The more you try to suppress extremism the more pressure has built up by the time it explodes.
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About communism, I wouldn't give too much importance to how a dictator self-describes (communist, revolutionary, liberator). Some tell fairy tales about nationalism others fairy tales about communism, but they're leading oppressive regimes anyway.
That part wasn't about Mussolini but about postwar Italian parties and parliament members.
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  #33  
Old 05.05.2021, 22:02
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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That part wasn't about Mussolini but about postwar Italian parties and parliament members.
Know nothing about that beyond years of the lead or whatever is the proper translation. Nothing factual, just crime fiction.
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  #34  
Old 06.05.2021, 01:11
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

Can anyone provide a link outside of FB or a searchable title of the video?

The topic is of some interest, but can't watch there.
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  #35  
Old 06.05.2021, 07:42
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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Can anyone provide a link outside of FB or a searchable title of the video?
https://fr.euronews.com/2021/05/04/a...ilitant-decede

Tom
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  #36  
Old 06.05.2021, 08:18
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The classic moustache is the first sign.

Did she also grow a pair?




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Back to Italy, the guys in the photo showed support for B. Mussolini in Milano, a week after Italy celebrated Liberation Day and presumably they just went back home after that. Nothing else happened. That shows respect to civil liberties, even for stuff like that.

About communism, I wouldn't give too much importance to how a dictator self-describes (communist, revolutionary, liberator). Some tell fairy tales about nationalism others fairy tales about communism, but they're leading oppressive regimes anyway.
Showing support to fascist dictators is illegal in many countries. In Europe at least.

(for some weird reasons showing support to communist dictators is not illegal but that's a different matter...)
Btw, does anyone celebrate Franco in Spain? I haven't heard anything about it.
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  #37  
Old 06.05.2021, 10:00
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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The classic moustache is the first sign.

Did she also grow a pair?
She would have only needed one according to the popular music hall and playground song of the time in the U.K.
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  #38  
Old 06.05.2021, 10:54
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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Showing support to fascist dictators is illegal in many countries. In Europe at least.

(for some weird reasons showing support to communist dictators is not illegal but that's a different matter...)
Finished reading this. Indeed, showing support to dead communist dictators is not illegal. But, in some countries some symbols are banned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_o...s#cite_note-20

But, only for certain countries. Just read this story about Hungary. The EU court of human rights considers a ban on communist symbols or support is not necessary because :

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there is no evidence to suggest that there is a real and present danger of any political movement or party restoring the communist dictatorship.....he Court is mindful of the fact that the well-known mass violations of human rights committed under communism discredited the symbolic value of the red star. However, in the Court’s view, it cannot be understood as representing exclusively communist totalitarian rule, as the Government have implicitly conceded. It is clear that this star also still symbolises the international workers’ movement,struggling for a fairer society,as well certain lawful political parties active in different member States
https://www.legal-tools.org/doc/92e39b/pdf/

Spain, they had a decades long discussion about burying the guy in a place where he could not glorified. Couple years ago the remains were moved from a place were supporters showed up every year to commemorate his death date to a more anonymous place. It doesn't take much effort to read between the lines that public display of support are not illegal at all. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46048514
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  #39  
Old 06.05.2021, 12:29
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

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That exact sentence could as well have come from one of them

Context: Italian Partigiani. They weren't exactly fighting with their bare hands ;-)
Cheers
P.
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  #40  
Old 06.05.2021, 12:46
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Re: And not far, in Italy- sends shivers down my spine

nothing new, in italy there's always been successors to the fascist party including youth clubs and they've always had their meetings.

I would not lose your sleep over this. There is an equal or bigger amount of militant communists and anarchists (autonomous centres etc.) in italy.

A bit too polarized but balanced.
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