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  #101  
Old 18.06.2021, 04:40
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

I normally hike up (used to run up) but on an unlucky day the gondola could fall on top of the hiker! The unpredictability of life is a mind **! #
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  #102  
Old 18.06.2021, 07:37
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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I went on the one that goes up to Montjuac in Barcelona, it was quite spectacular looking over the city from it.
Totally agree, it is superb, impressive, you can't miss that while in Barcelona. I always said this city has everything.


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Which is not what I wrote. I didn’t say I will be scared to step into the car. I wrote that I would be feeling uncomfortable always remembering the above video. It’s not saying like I will stop driving or flying because people die in accidents. However, I will always be vigilant and look differently at infrastructures begging questions e.g. when was it last time serviced, is it new or old type and etc.
Ah, good luck with that. I didn't watch the footage and I don't think I'll stop using cable cars because of this accident.
Perspective, people.

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Being an avid skier, after watching it, I will never ever feel comfortable stepping into gondola anymore.
Nah, I think you'll forget. People forget all sort of stuff, we wouldn't have survived as a species otherwise. If I were an avid skier, which I also am but I prefer cross country skiing, I would try not to make a big deal out of it. This is a very unfortunate event, but don't let it be a cause of yet another anxiety. We had enough in the last two years, I'd say.

Last edited by greenmount; 18.06.2021 at 07:58.
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  #103  
Old 18.06.2021, 08:52
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

Hi mods, can you delete the videos in the previous posts?


I find it distressing and ghoulish and don't think it is appropriate.


Thanks!


(I didn't click but read the other comments)
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  #104  
Old 18.06.2021, 09:18
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Whoa... from what I can see it did not even hit the pylon as initially reported, it just jumped off the cable and pulley at the pylon. (The cable does not snap down after the car is thrown down.) This is more than just the brake; either the clamp was insufficiently strong or the tampering with the brake affected it too.


And to imagine this with sound... at least it was relatively fast.
At that speed, it was a collision. The main cable support pullies are designed to be ridden over at around 15km/h, not 150km/h. At that speed multiple mechanical failures would have occurred, releasing the cabin from any aerial support.

I am also glad there is no audio...I imagine the screaming inside the cabin would have been off the charts.
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  #105  
Old 18.06.2021, 09:24
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Hi mods, can you delete the videos in the previous posts?


I find it distressing and ghoulish and don't think it is appropriate.


Thanks!


(I didn't click but read the other comments)

I respect that this can be distressing, but to me, the balance is in favor of keeping this link.



It is age-restricted now, so no harm to children while adults should be responsible for their clicks and any failure to inform themselves alike. It's also nothing that isn't shown more gratuitously and ghoulishly by Hollywood regularly.


And very relevant to this EF, as Switzerland has many of this type of lift.
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  #106  
Old 18.06.2021, 09:25
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Hi mods, can you delete the videos in the previous posts?


I find it distressing and ghoulish and don't think it is appropriate.


Thanks!


(I didn't click but read the other comments)
There's been a public outcry in Italy as well with demands to remove the video. I understand the reaction especially since you can identify the passengers. My own thoughts are that this is now online so it will never be erased completely but taking down the video is a sign of respect towards those immediately affected.
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  #107  
Old 18.06.2021, 09:42
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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There's been a public outcry in Italy as well with demands to remove the video. I understand the reaction especially since you can identify the passengers. My own thoughts are that this is now online so it will never be erased completely but taking down the video is a sign of respect towards those immediately affected.
I would put this video in say, the same category as those of 9/11 (plane crashing or persons jumping out the windows). Disturbing yes, but not graphic. Some pixelation of the faces would have been fairer though.
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  #108  
Old 18.06.2021, 10:37
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Which is not what I wrote. I didnít say I will be scared to step into the car. I wrote that I would be feeling uncomfortable always remembering the above video. Itís not saying like I will stop driving or flying because people die in accidents. However, I will always be vigilant and look differently at infrastructures begging questions e.g. when was it last time serviced, is it new or old type and etc.
It all boils down to every single person appetite for risk. Some fun things are found precisely beyond the comfort zone: mountain peaks, the car rear tires slipping, jumping on the bike......albeit, at some point we quit doing things that make us uncomfortable.
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Old 18.06.2021, 11:07
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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It all boils down to every single person appetite for risk. Some fun things are found precisely beyond the comfort zone: mountain peaks, the car rear tires slipping, jumping on the bike......albeit, at some point we quit doing things that make us uncomfortable.
Appetite for risk may well be associated with tolerance for investments and it comes at price of irrational decision making. However, self preservation and common sense to avoid danger, uncomfortable situations has nothing to do with adrenaline junkies here. People who wanted to go sightseeing and spent relaxing day in the mountains with their families become victims of someone’s negligence.

By the way, I am so glad that the video has been taken out to pay respect to the families of deceased at least.
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Old 18.06.2021, 11:52
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Appetite for risk may well be associated with tolerance for investments and it comes at price of irrational decision making. However, self preservation and common sense to avoid danger, uncomfortable situations has nothing to do with adrenaline junkies here. People who wanted to go sightseeing and spent relaxing day in the mountains with their families become victims of someoneís negligence.

By the way, I am so glad that the video has been taken out to pay respect to the families of deceased at least.
Indeed, the video is not pleasant. On one hand, respect for the families of the deceased and let things calm down is one thing the people being investigated for the accident claim too. On the other hand, images like this is what makes people claim for improved safety standards.

In the end, the video had not autoplay. So anyone who watched took the decision to do it as a responsible adult.
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  #111  
Old 18.06.2021, 12:23
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Indeed, the video is not pleasant. On one hand, respect for the families of the deceased and let things calm down is one thing the people being investigated for the accident claim too. On the other hand, images like this is what makes people claim for improved safety standards.

In the end, the video had not autoplay. So anyone who watched took the decision to do it as a responsible adult.
Let the expert analyze the video quietly in the lab to be able to arrive with some substantial improvements. Let the prosecutors watch it as many times as necessary to build the case against negligence.

For average folk itís just too sad to watch and outrage about the video being online is justified in Italy, imho.
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  #112  
Old 18.06.2021, 12:42
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Let the expert analyze the video quietly in the lab to be able to arrive with some substantial improvements. Let the prosecutors watch it as many times as necessary to build the case against negligence.

For average folk itís just too sad to watch and outrage about the video being online is justified in Italy, imho.

There is a point for that. But whereas crash testing in the automotive industry is now abundant and transparent, this accident is not something that could be field-tested.



Having this public this is something important for the gondola lift sector. Think of how opinion turned with the Ford Pinto. Likewise this should get more, not less, widespread attention; all the more as the future of the gondola industry is urban transportation, where risks to the non-riding public can be greater as well.
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  #113  
Old 18.06.2021, 13:35
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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But whereas crash testing in the automotive industry is now abundant and transparent, this accident is not something that could be field-tested.
Of course it can be tested, and I assume the design of the braking mechanism was at some point tested on a real cable setup to confirm that if the pulling cable breaks the emergency brake engages. They wouldn't need a whole cableway or even the cabin, just enough length for the brake to work and an equivalent weight handing from it.

This is not that different to cars - they don't crash every one to test it, only a sample, and they also don't do all the tests on the whole car but often in more detail on specific parts.
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  #114  
Old 18.06.2021, 15:05
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Re: Cable car accident near Lake Maggiore

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Of course it can be tested, and I assume the design of the braking mechanism was at some point tested on a real cable setup to confirm that if the pulling cable breaks the emergency brake engages. They wouldn't need a whole cableway or even the cabin, just enough length for the brake to work and an equivalent weight handing from it.

This is not that different to cars - they don't crash every one to test it, only a sample, and they also don't do all the tests on the whole car but often in more detail on specific parts.

Do not confuse component testing with system testing. There is organized destructive system testing now for cars. That won't happen for gondolas (as in gondola systems).



That is why having public evidence of this failure is important.



I won't belabor the 1972 Pinto test, but what matters is that within a few years, the system changed with stronger testing, stronger standards and more public transparency. If one country has plenty at stake for both users and producers of gondola systems, it's Switzerland.

Last edited by XDr; 18.06.2021 at 15:16. Reason: systems
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