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  #41  
Old 24.05.2021, 22:46
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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They have grounded the Morales’ plane successfully but didn’t capture the guy they were looking for, so the whole attempt was not a success. Lukashenko landed the plane and arrested the man.
in that respect - yes. Small difference may be it was diplomatic plane vs commercial airliner and some agents tailing ...

I still can't get it how one can just divert commercial airliner to pick up from it whoever is on board just to his liking and than blackmail rest of Europe , however it's happening. Russia anexing Crimea .. and we all stand and watch.
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  #42  
Old 24.05.2021, 22:49
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Politics is unhealthy and in ex-CCCP block deadly it seems
It's very bad there. There are many repressions happening since the unrest throughout the year.

Speaking about our guy, just to be clear because I am seeing some deviating comments: he was flying from one EU capital (Athens) to another (Vilnius), he had an asylum in EU, Belarus forced the landing with a false bomb report (they blamed an email from Hamas, and even Hamas quickly responded it was not them) and also with a jet fighter and a helicopter following the plane. The plane was closer to Vilnius than to Minsk significantly. So it was literally sort of a pirate action.

It is happening from time to time, quite rarely, that a plane is forced to return or to change an airport but forcing it to land in a third country, with a fake claim and a jet fighter is like WOW.

Update: he might actually not be having a granted asylum status, there are various articles appearing now.

Last edited by Meh; 24.05.2021 at 23:18.
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  #43  
Old 24.05.2021, 23:20
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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in that respect - yes. Small difference may be it was diplomatic plane vs commercial airliner and some agents tailing ...

I still can't get it how one can just divert commercial airliner to pick up from it whoever is on board just to his liking and than blackmail rest of Europe , however it's happening. Russia anexing Crimea .. and we all stand and watch.
The whole story is very strange. The plane was within 30 km from the border, two minutes — and the plane would have left the belarusian airspace and entered Lithuania. How could they threaten the passenger plane with the fighter jet and make it change the route so abruptly? The fighter jet must have been extremely aggressive, and this is just not acceptable. I don’t get it, did the belarusian authorities go crazy?

Last edited by leonie; 24.05.2021 at 23:37.
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  #44  
Old 25.05.2021, 00:41
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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I don’t get it, did the belarusian authorities go crazy?

I don't think anyone believes that they would go into such extreme actions without a full backing from the Kremlin.


It's a demonstration of power by a slowly collapsing regime that has no other means of ruling left other than fear and repressions. It's similar to Russian poisoning cases across Europe: it was messy, they left too many traces to even deny it but did they gain that much? Were victims truly that dangerous to Russia?


The main reason is to demonstrate to every political opponent of the regime that they're not safe anywhere. There's a price to be paid for taking action against Lukashenko, and even an escape into the EU with an asylum application does not protect you.
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  #45  
Old 25.05.2021, 03:22
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Just look at the Turkish lira.
The last time I checked Belarus state economy was not very dependent on EU tourists or NATO funding. Even if BYR will fall against EUR or USD, it will only hurt ordinary people of Belarus. Lukashenko itself holds his assets in stable currencies outside of his homeland.

The really efficient action against Lukashenko would be to make Putin revoke his support (I don't see it happening IRL any time soon). Legally and persistently scolding all his "wallets" and confiscating Lukashenko-related assets to fund independent press and rehabilitation for political victims and their families in Belarus won't hurt as well.
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Old 25.05.2021, 09:17
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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The really efficient action against Lukashenko would be to make Putin revoke his support (I don't see it happening IRL any time soon). Legally and persistently scolding all his "wallets" and confiscating Lukashenko-related assets to fund independent press and rehabilitation for political victims and their families in Belarus won't hurt as well.
This is true and they are targeting his "wallets" too. However, any sanctions targeting the budget are also harming him. Unfortunately the situation is that budget money are his money (money he can either steal or spend on the apparatus). It is harming the population too, it's sort of a cancer therapy, if you will.

There have been a restriction for leaving the country in place (officially, due to the pandemic situation), only certain groups of residents have been allowed to leave. It has been applied to the land travel only. Now, with flights banned, it is going to be nearly a temporary iron curtain. However, it'll hurt the budget too as well as the regime legitimacy, as usual.
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  #47  
Old 25.05.2021, 09:29
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

Flights to Russia and and other CIS states will continue.
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  #48  
Old 25.05.2021, 09:34
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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I don’t get it, did the belarusian authorities go crazy?
Lukashenko says that his father died in WW2, although he was born in 1954. Isn't it crazy enough?
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  #49  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:41
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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The last time I checked Belarus state economy was not very dependent on EU tourists or NATO funding. Even if BYR will fall against EUR or USD, it will only hurt ordinary people of Belarus. Lukashenko itself holds his assets in stable currencies outside of his homeland.

The really efficient action against Lukashenko would be to make Putin revoke his support (I don't see it happening IRL any time soon). Legally and persistently scolding all his "wallets" and confiscating Lukashenko-related assets to fund independent press and rehabilitation for political victims and their families in Belarus won't hurt as well.
Belarus main export partners: Russia 46.3%, EU 23.6 %, Ukraine 12.0 % https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belarus

Where there's will, there's a way.
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  #50  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:43
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Lukashenko says that his father died in WW2, although he was born in 1954. Isn't it crazy enough?
He's crazy and EU is spineless and weak.
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  #51  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:27
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Lukashenko says that his father died in WW2, although he was born in 1954. Isn't it crazy enough?
If we start quoting his sick speeches there will be no end to it...
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  #52  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:33
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Flights to Russia and and other CIS states will continue.
Lithuania allegedly won't be accepting flights passing Belarus, so maybe not all of them.
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  #53  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:09
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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There is no "choice" of the route - these are well defined flight plans and approved by all airspace controllers before plane takes off.
exactly. so he knew before booking the flight that it would pass over Belarus and could have taken different flights that avoid their airspace.
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  #54  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:10
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

Closing Belarusian airspace with airlines already avoiding Ukrainian airspace is going to be costly and result in unnecessary fuel burn and longer flights.
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  #55  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:34
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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EU is spineless and weak.
Hardly news.

Tom
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  #56  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:25
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Belarus main export partners: Russia 46.3%, EU 23.6 %, Ukraine 12.0 % https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belarus

Where there's will, there's a way.
That will has to be quite strong and extend to Lukashenko state's supporters, otherwise it won't have any real effect. Russian government was avoiding many international sanctions paying Belarus, Turkey and China for "proxy services" for years, now Belarus will do the same using Russia.

As much as EU leaders would want, it is hard not to shoot itself in a foot sanctioning trade with Russian government proxies and freezing their assets. Such proxies may seem as nice and legit businessmen and are fiscally valuable for countries and municipalities, where they live - only problem would be, that the real sources and the final beneficiaries of their wealth are illicit and immoral, if you have a will to look beyond the facade. But if you will have that will, you will risk losing an unofficial status of safe place for the majority of questionable money holders. We can be certain, that neither UK nor Switzerland [and many EU "golden passport" merchants] will support such actions IRL. They didn't do anything but a PR minimum just recently after Salisbury incident, or after Gunvor criminal charges, or in the light of the Michael Lauber's allegations. Why now, why ever?
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  #57  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:58
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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The main reason is to demonstrate to every political opponent of the regime that they're not safe anywhere. There's a price to be paid for taking action against Lukashenko, and even an escape into the EU with an asylum application does not protect you.
Just to provide some perspective:

In 1988 the US military shot down Iran Air flight 655, a civilian passenger jet, killing all 290 passengers.
In in 2001, a US fighter jet shot down a Cessna 185, OB-1408, a small civilian plane carrying a family of four suspected of smuggling drugs, killing 2 of the 4.

And the US keep murdering thousands each year on foreign soil by drone.
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Old 25.05.2021, 15:00
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Just to provide some perspective:

In 1988 the US military shot down Iran Air flight 655, a civilian passenger jet, killing all 290 passengers.
In in 2001, a US fighter jet shot down a Cessna 185, OB-1408, a small civilian plane carrying a family of four suspected of smuggling drugs, killing 2 of the 4.

And the US keep murdering thousands each year on foreign soil by drone.
That condition has a name. When memories from the past long gone are intact but more recent ones are forgotten: Malaysia Air Flight 17.
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  #59  
Old 25.05.2021, 15:30
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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Just to provide some perspective:

In 1988 the US military shot down Iran Air flight 655, a civilian passenger jet, killing all 290 passengers.
In in 2001, a US fighter jet shot down a Cessna 185, OB-1408, a small civilian plane carrying a family of four suspected of smuggling drugs, killing 2 of the 4.
Yet, these cases have some sort of a motivation and they were a tragic mistake.
In this case, it was a purposeful hijacking of a plane with the purpose of arresting a political opponent of the regime.
I am generally pro-American, but I guess a stronger example for you to use would be the Evo Morales grounding incident.
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Old 25.05.2021, 15:32
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Re: Ryanair plane forced to abort descent and forced to land in Weissrussland

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That condition has a name. When memories from the past long gone are intact but more recent ones are forgotten: Malaysia Air Flight 17.
And your point is? I see nobody defend Russia or Belarus.
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Yet, these cases have some sort of a motivation and they were a tragic mistake.
In this case, it was a purposeful hijacking of a plane with the purpose of arresting a political opponent of the regime.
I am generally pro-American, but I guess a stronger example for you to use would be the Evo Morales grounding incident.
You don't shoot down a civilian passenger plane by a see-air missile by mistake. Nor a small civilian plane.
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