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  #41  
Old 08.06.2021, 19:39
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Re: Nordstream 2

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So, Germany is supporting Russia's agenda in Ukraine.
The next time they ask Eastern European countries to take refugees they can ship them directly overseas to Russia.
No, Germany does not appreciate being held hostage by americans. That's right, US wants Nordstream killed so Europe must get gas from US in the future. US only loves a free market when the playing field is tilted in their favor...

This is what you get when you wiretap Merkel...
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  #42  
Old 08.06.2021, 20:21
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Re: Nordstream 2

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In fact, it was Austria who signed the first gas contract as a Western country with the USSR.
You cannot consider Austria as a Western country. It was neutral and outside NATO! Not Socialist Yugo, but still ...
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  #43  
Old 08.06.2021, 21:18
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Re: Nordstream 2

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Relax. Even when both pipes are completed (only one is close to complete now), Nordstream 2 will add barely 15% to the Russian export capacity to Europe, and otherwise Russia had now developed the infrastructure including icebreakers to deliver large quantities of LNG. Besides, Asia needs gas badly. Russia would have been fine either way, though letting the US bully Europe should bother them, although of course it should bother Western Europe even more so (sanctions against a German mayor and ministry ). The gas transit and fees through Poland and Ukraine are still secure, though more options will help make the system more robust and avoid the deadly winter shortages that were otherwise increasingly likely to happen in the East.[...]
A well reasoned comment. Almost hurt my brain reading one of the comment about the poor Poles and Ukes savagely attacked by the Russians! The Poles will take what Brussel giveth and then turn around and do whatever the yanks tell them to do at the detriment of Europe. The Ukes had their gas subsidized by Russia for many years because they held the pipeline hostage and siphoned whatever was needed. Time to cut the naughty child off - just a sad corrupt and bankrupt country good only for crack head businessmen.

The US wants to destabilize Europe and have done so for many years. I am incredibly surprised that the Germans grew a pair this time. Question is, what the hell were the US doing in this part of the world, none of their business, yankees go home. Enough blowing up the world and making us suffer. Another NGO backed refugee ship paid for by the US on its way to Italy?

I can see this is an English forum, if we had more Swiss in here remembering the absolute attack on Swiss sovereignty just a little over a decade ago by the Obama administration we wouldn't see that type of comments regarding a pipeline that concerns Russia and Europe.
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  #44  
Old 08.06.2021, 21:20
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Re: Nordstream 2

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You cannot consider Austria as a Western country. It was neutral and outside NATO! Not Socialist Yugo, but still ...
Plus, Vienna is more to the east than Prague
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  #45  
Old 08.06.2021, 21:30
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Re: Nordstream 2

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Plus, Vienna is more to the east than Prague
And Tel Aviv is east of Istanbul and Cairo. Don't you consider Israel a Western country? By Western I meant values like democracy, freedom of speech, open markets.
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  #46  
Old 08.06.2021, 21:37
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Re: Nordstream 2

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The US wants to destabilize Europe and have done so for many years.
Contrary to the mainstream message, the European Union is actually a formidable project to reach that goal: it ties all the European Countries to a monster which has the body of a gigantic Chambers of Commerce, the stomach made of Benelux and two heads with opposite (and therefore the same) interests. The day that such a monster will have a common army, it will be the day that NATO can be replaced by the US Army and the european Army will be the faithful ally, but when attacked by Russia (please remember they are evil, so they will surely do that) there will be no NATO obligation for the US to defend the stupidest continent of the world.

At least in Switzerland the only monster with two heads is Albania+Kosovo (sorry Serbian friends and not-friends, I know you are evil because of your cultural and religious ties with Russia, the cultural inserts of the Washington Post and of the New York Times told me so and once even that finest lady of american foreign policy, madame Albright, said in a quite and thinkful tone "disgusting Serbs", so it must be your fault ).
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  #47  
Old 08.06.2021, 22:03
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Re: Nordstream 2

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And Tel Aviv is east of Istanbul and Cairo. Don't you consider Israel a Western country? By Western I meant values like democracy, freedom of speech, open markets.
At the time, it is likely that the market was more open in Cairo than in Vienna. Please don't mix western values, such as open markets, that was not the main objective of Austria, with superior values, such as democracy and freedom of speech, which were objectives of Austria's politics (well, sometimes it was the freedom of speech for Saddam Hussein, the notorious deranged US-backed puppet, ridiculed even in the parody of Top Gun movie Hot Shots, but I think you are intelligent enough to get the point).
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  #48  
Old 09.06.2021, 03:38
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Re: Nordstream 2

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And Tel Aviv is east of Istanbul and Cairo. Don't you consider Israel a Western country? By Western I meant values like democracy, freedom of speech, open markets.
No - it seems more like an apartheid state which suppresses a large part of the population and relies on massive subsidies.
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  #49  
Old 09.06.2021, 21:03
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Re: Nordstream 2

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Russia and Europe.
I think some reading would do good before posting .. everyone has opinion - just some are based on realities and other on Trump'fism.

I see you know well Eastern Europe situation specially seating 1500km away drinking coffee at La Place Rouge a Lure ... when someone is seating in the tranches and hoping he won't be shot today ." Vive la révolution - but do not bother me with actions please"

Last edited by hoover1; 09.06.2021 at 21:13.
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  #50  
Old 09.06.2021, 21:25
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Re: Nordstream 2

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And to undermine Ukraine politically and economically. From a European supply security perspective, it is preferable not having pipelines running through a potential conflict or war zone.
You must be joking , right ?

energy security is diversification - second line of NS that doubles the throught isn't that - it's addiction to regime owned monopoly

and anything above independent country security is outrageous - but I feel I get where you come from (l&f)

Which country would you trade next for gas&oil ... sad to see expats thinking that way.


and yes, I am Swiss and I do remember Obama's words .. and must ask - what did it change ? has someone died. ? ah ..some fat cats in banks lost their bonuses ... got it.
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  #51  
Old 09.06.2021, 21:38
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Re: Nordstream 2

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You must be joking , right ?

energy security is diversification - second line of NS that doubles the throught isn't that - it's addiction to regime owned monopoly

and anything above independent country security is outrageous - but I feel I get where you come from (l&f)

Which country would you trade next for gas&oil ... sad to see expats thinking that way.


and yes, I am Swiss and I do remember Obama's words .. and must ask - what did it change ? has someone died. ? ah ..some fat cats in banks lost their bonuses ... got it.
Calm down.
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  #52  
Old 09.06.2021, 21:40
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Re: Nordstream 2

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Calm down.
??

ran out of arguments or you just read what you wrote ?
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  #53  
Old 09.06.2021, 22:00
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Re: Nordstream 2

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??

ran out of arguments or you just read what you wrote ?
I made my point of view clear in my posts. Don't know why I should repeat myself only because of some rabid comment from someone who simply disagrees with me.
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  #54  
Old 09.06.2021, 22:46
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Re: Nordstream 2

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I made my point of view clear in my posts. Don't know why I should repeat myself only because of some rabid comment from someone who simply disagrees with me.

very good . thanks for your contribution here - you made it easy to remember - use Russian gas and care for no-one , second pipeline on sea bed is good and better than one on land for energy security - diversification is not needed , putin is well trusted leader of new world.

btw- by any chance you speak Russian?
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  #55  
Old 09.06.2021, 22:51
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Re: Nordstream 2

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very good . thanks for your contribution here - you made it easy to remember - use Russian gas and care for no-one , second pipeline on sea bed is good and better than one on land for energy security - diversification is not needed , putin is well trusted leader of new world.

btw- by any chance you speak Russian?
I actually do.

Don't confuse me for a Putin friend though. I merely try to look at this rationally.
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  #56  
Old 10.06.2021, 09:33
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Re: Nordstream 2

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I actually do.

Don't confuse me for a Putin friend though. I merely try to look at this rationally.
It might be just a "narrative" saying 'Germany needs the gas, and securely'.

The other narrative is that Russia gets another wedge and leverage to split Europe on "Russia's sphere of influence", and J. Biden acquiesces to it in a bid to win Germany and perhaps Russia in order to counter China.

China aside, Gazprom is heavily and successfully lobbying top politicians in Europe (or, dare I say, corrupts them) and is corrupting governance in European countries and in EU.

Nord Stream 1 and 2 can carry 80% of total Russian gas imports to Europe.
The capacity of the whole Russia to Europe pipelines is 2.4 bigger than the actual need. One would need a lot of good faith to believe the "business" narrative.
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  #57  
Old 10.06.2021, 10:26
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Re: Nordstream 2

An interesting point is rased in this short news regarding the Netherlands (formerly a gas exporting country, now importing a lot and struggling to adapt its own system to missing gas revenues ... poor Shell and poor royal family, formerly rich together as Royal Dutch Shell):
https://energypost.eu/netherlands-ga...g-from-russia/

They claim that importing LNG may displace import from Russia, to gain independency.
If Germany would invest into LNG (I don't even know if they have any infrastructure for that) it would be brilliant, but:
- the SPD is still trying to understand who they are, after they destroyed salaries with the Hartz IV reform;
- the Greens building regassificatror for LNG? you must be kidding;
- CDU investing public money into infrstructures that do not benefit directly the pockets of Volkswagen/Mercedes/BMW owners? impossible.

So we are on a nice path of Europe preventing its companies from exporting to Russia anything (human rights, the Washington Post told us!), but importing a lot of gas. Europe is then importing gas against hard currency, because if it was exporting there could be a sort of balance euro in - euro out and rubles in - rubles out, now there is only gas in - euro out, so the ruble is becoming stronger and Vlad can think about buying some more Polonium.

Great!
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  #58  
Old 10.06.2021, 19:42
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Re: Nordstream 2

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An interesting point is rased in this short news regarding the Netherlands (formerly a gas exporting country, now importing a lot and struggling to adapt its own system to missing gas revenues ... poor Shell and poor royal family, formerly rich together as Royal Dutch Shell):
https://energypost.eu/netherlands-ga...g-from-russia/

They claim that importing LNG may displace import from Russia, to gain independency.
If Germany would invest into LNG (I don't even know if they have any infrastructure for that) it would be brilliant, but:
- the SPD is still trying to understand who they are, after they destroyed salaries with the Hartz IV reform;
- the Greens building regassificatror for LNG? you must be kidding;
- CDU investing public money into infrstructures that do not benefit directly the pockets of Volkswagen/Mercedes/BMW owners? impossible.

So we are on a nice path of Europe preventing its companies from exporting to Russia anything (human rights, the Washington Post told us!), but importing a lot of gas. Europe is then importing gas against hard currency, because if it was exporting there could be a sort of balance euro in - euro out and rubles in - rubles out, now there is only gas in - euro out, so the ruble is becoming stronger and Vlad can think about buying some more Polonium.

Great!
There is few terminals to accept LNG - however it's not cheaper and never will be as Russians have almost no costs and could supply gas to Europe for years free of charge should they want to keep competition at bay.

That being said it is good idea to have energy diversification and means to procure it - LNG terminals are one of. US and Quatar can delivery large quantities anytime - however it be more of an 'insurance' than return on investment. There was few LNG receiving terminals build by baltic countries - guess sit was Lithuania and some in Poland ?
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  #59  
Old 10.06.2021, 22:27
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Re: Nordstream 2

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Nord Stream 1 and 2 can carry 80% of total Russian gas imports to Europe.
The capacity of the whole Russia to Europe pipelines is 2.4 bigger than the actual need. One would need a lot of good faith to believe the "business" narrative.
That number is meaningless by its own.
How much of its total consumption does Europe get from Russia, and which portion of the imports is that? What is current LNG intake capacity, and how is that expected to change over the coming years?
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  #60  
Old 11.06.2021, 11:46
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Re: Nordstream 2

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more of an 'insurance' than return on investment. There was few LNG receiving terminals build by baltic countries - guess sit was Lithuania and some in Poland ?
Yes, Poland has a contract with Gazprom. Expiring in 2022. Then they plan to import a lot of gas, while building nuclear power plant (they would like to stop using coal, or better said, the US wants them to stop burning coal). After that point, who knows, they may even use gasification of coal to produce gas and export it through the LNG terminals (I am not sure about technical feasibility, I am sure it will be more expensive than russian gas, the premium in price will be the "not made in Russia" part).

Lithuania I do not know, they have a LNG regassifier and they are building a pipeline with Poland to export "european gas" from Europe to Finland ... I know Poland had some shale-gas potential, otherwise I do not see the origin of this european gas. I miss a bit the general picture of the Baltic countries, but in general I see that you have four ways to think about energy security:
- gas = russia;
- nuclear = france + china (like the new nuclear power plant in the UK, built by a consortium with a big chinese involvement);
- gas but not from evil russia = US and their shale gas;
- coal = independence, and china.

Luckily for oil there is the guarantee of the Middle East: it is always pleasant to create and fund rich elites with a deep cultural background and a strong and meaningful sense of the world, as well as to fund their illuminated and democratic governments:
https://local12.com/news/offbeat/bab...parks-backlash
a
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