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-   -   Nordstream 2 (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/304482-nordstream-2-a.html)

Phil_MCR 07.06.2021 21:20

Nordstream 2
 
Putin announced a few days ago the completion* of one of the lines of NS2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EFVEA9jPcc

Just putting it out there to get the EF views.

*i wasn't clear what exactly this means and when gas will actually flow

slammer 07.06.2021 21:54

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3314823)
Putin announced a few days ago the completion* of one of the lines of NS2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EFVEA9jPcc

Just putting it out there to get the EF views.

*i wasn't clear what exactly this means and when gas will actually flow

Putin will do anything to annoy the Americans who are throwing a hissy fit over Nordstream2

Treverus 08.06.2021 06:58

Re: Nordstream 2
 
My Gazprom stocks are doing great.

Talk to you later 08.06.2021 09:10

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Putin for President of the USA, the world and then the Universe :p
Hold hands and let us all chant Putin, Putin, Putin...

komsomolez 08.06.2021 09:28

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314896)
My Gazprom stocks are doing great.

That's because gas prices are sky high and have receovered from their alltime lows last year. If you bought Gazprom last year, good deal. Over the long term a horrible return though.

scrabblegrey 08.06.2021 10:22

Re: Nordstream 2
 
I do not know exactly how, but the "new" wave of european leftwing leaders of the 90s were real bright stars.

In the sense of meteorites that brought destruction in Europe for the following 20 years.

Ignoring for a moment Tony "Murdoch" Blair, the story of NordStream is very close to the parable of Gerhard Schroeder, the Audi chancellor (so called because he married 4 times, not because of a strange connection with carmakers, that is the norm in German politics...) really built a long-term relation
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...7470639291.jpg
which Angela Kasner/Kaźmierczak magistrally exploited in her life (as everything, even her husband german family name to flush away the intrinsic racism present in German influential minorities) to keep power without doing anything than pleasing the rotten german elite.

The time that the US will have Sarah Palin for president, I hope that Russia and China will have as well a woman president, to make clear that gender equality is a true thing :D

scrabblegrey 08.06.2021 10:25

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Back to Nordstream: it is there to stay forever. The Netherlands is already doig huge progresses in converting old gas pipeline to move hydrogen instead of methane.

That means that the Green Europe of the future will most likely run on hydrogen produced by russian coal and nuclear power plants.

Well, at least these times ze Germans did not need to siege Stalingrad, they got what they want in a more decent way.

jacek 08.06.2021 10:25

Re: Nordstream 2
 
It is like in this song. Just change Rasputin to Gas-Putin :D


komsomolez 08.06.2021 10:36

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrabblegrey (Post 3314962)
Back to Nordstream: it is there to stay forever. The Netherlands is already doig huge progresses in converting old gas pipeline to move hydrogen instead of methane.

That means that the Green Europe of the future will most likely run on hydrogen produced by russian coal and nuclear power plants.

Well, at least these times ze Germans did not need to siege Stalingrad, they got what they want in a more decent way.

Are you drunk?

scrabblegrey 08.06.2021 10:40

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3314966)
Are you drunk?

https://www.bakermckenzie.com/en/ins...-hydrogen-race

So, if I am drunk, are you blind because of drinking methanol?

bowlie 08.06.2021 10:50

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3314923)
Putin for President of the USA, the world and then the Universe :p
Hold hands and let us all chant Putin, Putin, Putin...

I prefer the french spelling : Putain

Perfect description as well.

Treverus 08.06.2021 11:02

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrabblegrey (Post 3314962)
That means that the Green Europe of the future will most likely run on hydrogen produced by russian coal and nuclear power plants.

I prefer this scenario a lot over the current setup where we buy our nuclear fuel in Russia and ship our nuclear trash back there... because the part in the middle is currently hoping that the French or Belgians dont blow up their ancient reactors (with increasing numbers of "small" accidents and no planning for the mid term)

I would care much less if that reactor was somewhere in northern Russia...

Axa 08.06.2021 11:07

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314971)
I prefer this scenario a lot over the current setup where we buy our nuclear fuel in Russia and ship our nuclear trash back there... because the part in the middle is currently hoping that the French or Belgians dont blow up their ancient reactors (with increasing numbers of "small" accidents and no planning for the mid term)

I would care much less if that reactor was somewhere in northern Russia...

Is there a reference for "our" nuclear fuel bought from Russia and the export of "our" nuclear waste to Russia?

Treverus 08.06.2021 11:21

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3314973)
Is there a reference for "our" nuclear fuel bought from Russia and the export of "our" nuclear waste to Russia?

Sure. A significant amount of EU nuclear waste is currently "stored" in Russia in open air parking lots and old train carts.

Here is a link about one case in France for over 100 tonnes. https://www.dw.com/en/france-dumps-n...-say/a-4786672

Here is one from Germany:
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/e...an-commission/

Its not exactly a very well hidden secret that we use Russia as the dumping ground for nuclear material from all over Europe. And the Russians are happy to do so for hard cash. And somehow this seems to go on even during alleged trade sanctions. Because nuclear waste is someting nobody wants to have lying around.

Phil_MCR 08.06.2021 11:27

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3314927)
That's because gas prices are sky high and have receovered from their alltime lows last year. If you bought Gazprom last year, good deal. Over the long term a horrible return though.

i bought last year - not even at the lows - and still made over 50% gain. it's obviously not a flashy growth stock like tesla nor a trendy crypto gizmo like bitcoin, but it is producing something that we'll probably need to consume for decades to come and pays out a decent (and likely growing) dividend. that has a place in my portfolio.

Phil_MCR 08.06.2021 11:31

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314975)
Sure. A significant amount of EU nuclear waste is currently "stored" in Russia in open air parking lots and old train carts.

"The group has demanded that the atomic waste be brought back from Russia" :rofl:

Axa 08.06.2021 12:02

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314975)
Sure. A significant amount of EU nuclear waste is currently "stored" in Russia in open air parking lots and old train carts.

Here is a link about one case in France for over 100 tonnes. https://www.dw.com/en/france-dumps-n...-say/a-4786672

EDF claims it's fuel reprocessing. Just for context France produces more than 1100 tonnes of spent fuel each year. So, 108 tonnes since the mid 1990s is an about 4.5 tonnes per year or 0.39% of yearly production. The fuel reprocessing sound plausible. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news...-can-oui-learn

On the other hand, there's something fishy because France has a fuel reprocessing plant (La Hague) and they reprocess spent fuel from Belgium,Germany, Switzerland and more. So, why not reprocess their own spent fuel? Lack of capacity seems no to be the problem. Maybe the answer is in the mid 1990s issue. Anyway, if more data is published opinions can change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314975)
Here is one from Germany:
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/e...an-commission/

Its not exactly a very well hidden secret that we use Russia as the dumping ground for nuclear material from all over Europe. And the Russians are happy to do so for hard cash. And somehow this seems to go on even during alleged trade sanctions. Because nuclear waste is someting nobody wants to have lying around.

I guess I have not met the right people. For me, it is a hidden secret that we use Russia as dumping site for nuclear waste. What is much less regulated are others kinds of industrial waste which are easier to export without making too much noise. I wouldn't be surprised if dangerous but not nuclear waste is converted to nuclear waste by conspiracy theories.

Treverus 08.06.2021 12:14

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3314991)

I guess I have not met the right people. For me, it is a hidden secret that we use Russia as dumping site for nuclear waste. What is much less regulated are others kinds of industrial waste which are easier to export without making too much noise. I wouldn't be surprised if dangerous but not nuclear waste is converted to nuclear waste by conspiracy theories.

The article actually mentions this: there is a loophole that turns certain nuclear waste into "nuclear material" which is less regulated. I dont know or care about the details.

And about your numbers: here is a link on 600 tonnes of material from Germany last year. Russian environmentalist claim that there already had been another 3000 tonnes during 2020(!).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53156266

The loophole is apparently to claim it is for "recycling" with no intention to ever ship it back.

Axa 08.06.2021 12:27

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3314994)
The article actually mentions this: there is a loophole that turns certain nuclear waste into "nuclear material" which is less regulated. I dont know or care about the details.

And about your numbers: here is a link on 600 tonnes of material from Germany last year. Russian environmentalist claim that there already had been another 3000 tonnes during 2020(!).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53156266

The loophole is apparently to claim it is for "recycling" with no intention to ever ship it back.

It's not waste, it's spent fuel and it can refined once again. The results is new fuel and "true waste". The "true waste" is according to current reprocessing technology, it may be a source of more fuel in the future.

I really liked this part of the article: colonial policy, Russians are backward, no way they can reprocess fuel (they do), Germany has the technology to deal with its own nuclear materials (NEIN!). The irony is that Russia, France, Japan and the USA have the plants to reprocess fuel. The people applying the colonial way of thinking (German superiority) are the environmental activists.

Quote:

On 15 June, a petition to stop the shipments was sent to Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel. It was signed by environmental groups and activists from Russia, Germany and the Netherlands.

The petition calls for an end to the "colonial policy of moving hazardous cargoes from Europe to Russia's Siberian and Ural regions".

It argues that Germany has the technology to deal with its own nuclear material and ends with the words: "Russia is not a dumping ground!"

Greenpeace argued last year that Russia lacked a plan to utilise depleted uranium on a large scale. The accusation was rejected by Tenex which told Russian media it was "absolutely inconsistent with reality".

Treverus 08.06.2021 12:58

Re: Nordstream 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3315000)
It's not waste, it's spent fuel and it can refined once again. The results is new fuel and "true waste". The "true waste" is according to current reprocessing technology, it may be a source of more fuel in the future.

I really liked this part of the article: colonial policy, Russians are backward, no way they can reprocess fuel (they do), Germany has the technology to deal with its own nuclear materials (NEIN!). The irony is that Russia, France, Japan and the USA have the plants to reprocess fuel. The people applying the colonial way of thinking (German superiority) are the environmental activists.

The point is not if they can reprocess the fuel... the questions is if they do it. They get paid to accept the stuff, it gets shipped there, lies around in open space and apparently no plan to ever move it back. Thats the criticism: its dumping trash through a legal loophole pretending it to not be trash.

The people who complained were actually just as many Russian environmental activists. For Greenpeace and co is it a key part of nuclear power that we dont actually calculate all the costs when comparing energy sources... the final storage of the trash is not solved and shipping it off to Russia is not a very fair solution. That has nothing to do with colonialism or superiority - and a lot more with being responsible and accountable for your countries consumption. That was in 2020, not sure if they'd still dare to openly talk like that after the whole Nawalny saga...

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ru...muell-101.html


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