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09.04.2022, 18:22
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | LOL!
According to Wikipedia "Tarrio is Cuban-American and of Afro-Cuban background".
Probably the other members see him through rose-tinted glasses  | | | | | I was thinking of this enormous cognitive dissonance so many people are living with...these days.
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09.04.2022, 18:30
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | I would say there is ZERO not slim chance on that. The only chance on that happening was the 2nd impeachment trial. | | | | | The 14th Amendment can only be enforced by a court of law, not Congress; see the link 3Wishes posted.
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09.04.2022, 19:42
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | The 14th Amendment can only be enforced by a court of law, not Congress; see the link 3Wishes posted. | | | | | It isn't just the 14th Amendment. Congress failed to convict on the impeachment charge. If they had convicted and ruled him ineligible to run again, the whole thing would be moot.
To my knowledge there has not been one person charged with insurrection. The worst people have been charged with is obstruction. I would still say there is ZERO chance that any court is going to convict Trump of insurrection.
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09.04.2022, 20:02
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Check the characterisation of their ideology at the top, it basically relies on one single source. Most importantly nothing comes from the horse's mouth. Pretty much the same applies to your wannabe quote.
Basically, someone writes a hitpiece, others pick up on it, and pretty soon all left outlets repeat the same like parrots, without even thinking about factchecking. As a result the entire left has hissy fits about it and everybody "knows" it's true.
That's how ideologists function, the crazier the smear the better. Whatever you want to call that, realiable it isn't.
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09.04.2022, 20:59
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | Check the characterisation of their ideology at the top, it basically relies on one single source. Most importantly nothing comes from the horse's mouth. Pretty much the same applies to your wannabe quote.
Basically, someone writes a hitpiece, others pick up on it, and pretty soon all left outlets repeat the same like parrots, without even thinking about factchecking. As a result the entire left has hissy fits about it and everybody "knows" it's true.
That's how ideologists function, the crazier the smear the better. Whatever you want to call that, realiable it isn't. | | | | | That certainly doesn't only happen with the left, though. I think a lot of people will instinctively believe something if it validates their cognitive biases. Too many people will consider something to be true simply because they WANT it be true -- regardless of whether or not it actually is true. And that applies on all sides of the political spectrum.
We're living in the Age of Misinformation. And the internet is full of people willing to post and share anything just to get some likes or clicks or some form of attention. Not that I'm implying that that's what Marton was doing, but my point is that it's a problem among society in general regardless of someone's political ideologies.
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09.04.2022, 21:48
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | It isn't just the 14th Amendment. Congress failed to convict on the impeachment charge. If they had convicted and ruled him ineligible to run again, the whole thing would be moot.
To my knowledge there has not been one person charged with insurrection. The worst people have been charged with is obstruction. I would still say there is ZERO chance that any court is going to convict Trump of insurrection. | | | | | The worst people have been charged with seditious conspiracy.
Eleven Oath Keepers face seditious conspiracy charges
A number of people have been charged with conspiracy; Jacob Fracker pleaded guilty in the District of Columbia to a felony charge of conspiracy; he faces up to five years in prison and a potential fine of up to $250,000.
In the US seditious conspiracy is a more serious charge than insurrection; - Individuals charged with seditious conspiracy 18 U.S.C. § 2384 can be fined and could serve up to 20 years in prison.
- Charges of insurrection 18 U.S. Code § 2383, or the incitement of insurrection, involves fines and imprisonment of up to 10 years
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09.04.2022, 22:39
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | That certainly doesn't only happen with the left, though. I think a lot of people will instinctively believe something if it validates their cognitive biases. Too many people will consider something to be true simply because they WANT it be true -- regardless of whether or not it actually is true. And that applies on all sides of the political spectrum.
We're living in the Age of Misinformation. And the internet is full of people willing to post and share anything just to get some likes or clicks or some form of attention. Not that I'm implying that that's what Marton was doing, but my point is that it's a problem among society in general regardless of someone's political ideologies. | | | | | While I tend to agree, your post is nonetheless an excellent example of whataboutism.
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09.04.2022, 22:49
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | Check the characterisation of their ideology at the top, it basically relies on one single source. Most importantly nothing comes from the horse's mouth. Pretty much the same applies to your wannabe quote.
Basically, someone writes a hitpiece, others pick up on it, and pretty soon all left outlets repeat the same like parrots, without even thinking about factchecking. As a result the entire left has hissy fits about it and everybody "knows" it's true.
That's how ideologists function, the crazier the smear the better. Whatever you want to call that, realiable it isn't. | | | | | OK, I admit I know nothing more about those Proud Boys than what I read on Wikipedia or snippets I saw on CNN. I take your point in a way - but then please educate me on who those guys are and what their "purpose" is.
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09.04.2022, 23:25
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | While I tend to agree, your post is nonetheless an excellent example of whataboutism. | | | | | No, it wasn't, because I wasn't trying to discredit your comment (in fact, quite the opposite). I was pointing out the fact that it is not only people on the left who spread and consume misinformation. | Quote: | |  | | | Basically, someone writes a hitpiece, others pick up on it, and pretty soon all left outlets repeat the same like parrots, without even thinking about factchecking. As a result the entire left has hissy fits about it and everybody "knows" it's true. | | | | | | This user groans at Pancakes for this post: | | 
10.04.2022, 00:30
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | Check the characterisation of their ideology at the top, it basically relies on one single source. Most importantly nothing comes from the horse's mouth. Pretty much the same applies to your wannabe quote.
Basically, someone writes a hitpiece, others pick up on it, and pretty soon all left outlets repeat the same like parrots, without even thinking about factchecking. As a result the entire left has hissy fits about it and everybody "knows" it's true.
That's how ideologists function, the crazier the smear the better. Whatever you want to call that, realiable it isn't. | | | | | The only failure of your post is the narrow focus on how news spreads.
It would be equally true if you replaced "left" with "right" or with "tribe" or with "group" or whatever.
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10.04.2022, 11:16
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | While I tend to agree, your post is nonetheless an excellent example of whataboutism. | | | | | That's how misinformation and disinformation works, from the far-left side to the far-right side of the political spectrum. Where's the whataboutism here? If you want to discredit and dismiss wikipedia though, be my guest, everyone knows it's not the most reliable info source in general.
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10.04.2022, 14:16
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | OK, I admit I know nothing more about those Proud Boys than what I read on Wikipedia or snippets I saw on CNN. I take your point in a way - but then please educate me on who those guys are and what their "purpose" is. | | | | | I don't know more about them than you. My gripe isn't that this happened this once, it's that this is central to the modus operandi of the left and the media.
Once a group or individual has been labeled as -ist (white supremacist in the case of the Proud Boys), no matter how inane that label happens to be, all it takes is a reminder of that label to discredit everything that comes from them (remember how Trump got portrayed: racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic, as well as any and every other battle term of the left). It's similar to the Dem's identity politics btw, though of course this is a positive selector whereas the bad -isms are excluding. | Quote: | |  | | | The only failure of your post is the narrow focus on how news spreads.
It would be equally true if you replaced "left" with "right" or with "tribe" or with "group" or whatever. | | | | | In theory it might perhaps be, that's just not how this works in reality. The political left has the collective at its core whereas the right is based on the individual (and the family as a consequence). Identity politics (your "tribe", "group") is a thing of the left, you'll be hard pressed to find an obviously racist statement like Biden's "you're not black if you don't vote Democrat" coming from the right. You're equally unlikely to find a progressive say something like "I wan't the state to leave my family alone and to get off my lawn".
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10.04.2022, 15:49
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | I don't know more about them than you. My gripe isn't that this happened this once, it's that this is central to the modus operandi of the left and the media.
Once a group or individual has been labeled as -ist (white supremacist in the case of the Proud Boys), no matter how inane that label happens to be, all it takes is a reminder of that label to discredit everything that comes from them (remember how Trump got portrayed: racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic, as well as any and every other battle term of the left). It's similar to the Dem's identity politics btw, though of course this is a positive selector whereas the bad -isms are excluding.
In theory it might perhaps be, that's just not how this works in reality. The political left has the collective at its core whereas the right is based on the individual (and the family as a consequence). Identity politics (your "tribe", "group") is a thing of the left, you'll be hard pressed to find an obviously racist statement like Biden's "you're not black if you don't vote Democrat" coming from the right. You're equally unlikely to find a progressive say something like "I wan't the state to leave my family alone and to get off my lawn". | | | | | The right like the left has the same modus operandi of labelling;
antifa
Marxist
communist
losers
woke
snowflake
fake news
Biden also got portrayed as sleepy, creepy, corrupt, pedophile.....
There is a list of insults used by both sides here.
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10.04.2022, 16:02
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | |
In theory it might perhaps be, that's just not how this works in reality. The political left has the collective at its core whereas the right is based on the individual (and the family as a consequence). Identity politics (your "tribe", "group") is a thing of the left, you'll be hard pressed to find an obviously racist statement like Biden's "you're not black if you don't vote Democrat" coming from the right. You're equally unlikely to find a progressive say something like "I wan't the state to leave my family alone and to get off my lawn".
| | | | | White nationalism is considered "identity politics" and that is most certainly not associated with the left.
The rise of White identity politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lWASHNNXt0 | 
10.04.2022, 16:35
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | I don't know more about them than you. My gripe isn't that this happened this once, it's that this is central to the modus operandi of the left and the media.
Once a group or individual has been labeled as -ist (white supremacist in the case of the Proud Boys), no matter how inane that label happens to be, all it takes is a reminder of that label to discredit everything that comes from them (remember how Trump got portrayed: racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic, as well as any and every other battle term of the left). It's similar to the Dem's identity politics btw, though of course this is a positive selector whereas the bad -isms are excluding.
In theory it might perhaps be, that's just not how this works in reality. The political left has the collective at its core whereas the right is based on the individual (and the family as a consequence). Identity politics (your "tribe", "group") is a thing of the left, you'll be hard pressed to find an obviously racist statement like Biden's "you're not black if you don't vote Democrat" coming from the right. You're equally unlikely to find a progressive say something like "I wan't the state to leave my family alone and to get off my lawn". | | | | | You obviously have an agenda here. Not exactly an objective view is it?
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10.04.2022, 18:59
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | 
10.04.2022, 21:13
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | The right like the left has the same modus operandi of labelling;
antifa
Marxist
communist
losers
woke
snowflake
fake news
Biden also got portrayed as sleepy, creepy, corrupt, pedophile.....
There is a list of insults used by both sides here. | | | | | The majority of those are self-chosen. Insults OTOH are just that, loser isn't even political.
That said, fake news aren't even persons. Next time just say it when you're out of your depth.
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10.04.2022, 21:17
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | So, nothing's known beyond the statement that she was "answering questions", but that's no reason nowadays not to write about it.
Some people definitely love to produce hot air.
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10.04.2022, 21:54
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection | Quote: | |  | | | In theory it might perhaps be, that's just not how this works in reality. The political left has the collective at its core whereas the right is based on the individual (and the family as a consequence). Identity politics (your "tribe", "group") is a thing of the left, you'll be hard pressed to find an obviously racist statement like Biden's "you're not black if you don't vote Democrat" coming from the right. You're equally unlikely to find a progressive say something like "I wan't the state to leave my family alone and to get off my lawn". | | | | | What's your brilliant explanation then, that insults and labels could only end in "-ist"? Everything else in terms of using derogatory, libellous language, is either not an insult or not offensive or not false or...not illegal even, in certain situations?
I think the right is usually labelling an entire group along the lines of "your tribe is bad and mine is good". "You're a commun ist, left ist, marx ist, femin ist", "progressist", and all these other labels are not always self-chosen and self-descriptive, more often than not are used as insults and meant to discredit everything that comes from that direction.
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02.05.2022, 15:03
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| | Re: January 6 US Capitol Insurrection
" A federal judge in Washington, D.C., on Sunday rejected a lawsuit filed by the Republican National Committee (RNC) against the House select committee investigating the January 6 riots.
The RNC had alleged its First and Fourth Amendment rights were violated when the panel subpoenaed Salesforce, a software company it used for fundraising efforts.
In a 53-page opinion, Judge Timothy Kelly in the U.S. District Court in D.C. dismissed all claims against the House committee.
Kelly also ruled the subpoena does not violate the Fourth Amendment; that the House committee has a legitimate purpose in its inquiry; and that lawmakers on the committee were immune from a lawsuit under the speech and debate clause."
" A second Oath Keeper pleaded guilty , Brian Ulrich, to seditious conspiracy in the Jan. 6 riot.
The estimated guidelines range for Ulrich's sentence is 63 to 78 months or just over 5 years to 7 ½ years."
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