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  #221  
Old 04.07.2021, 13:43
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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What's funny about the refugees is how around 70% and more are men

just doesnt make sense...does it
Is that a serious comment? Women cannot leave Afghanistan without being accompanied by a father, husband or possibly brother.
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  #222  
Old 04.07.2021, 13:48
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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But he is doing a service - he is helping others violate the laws of the EU - and youtube is helping him. The other reason why we have a refugee "crisis" is because internet enabled mobile phones became incredibly cheap - so asylum "seekers" learned which lies to tell in which manner extremely quickly and published them to their friends.
The solution is simple - mass deportation to an offshore location and put the burden of proof on the applicant. Certainly coming to Switzerland should be an immediate red flag.
Btw, in his videos he talks about the numbers of times he got deported, how he gamed the system (how long are finger-prints retrained in the EU database), best countries to enter into EU, which police forces are more lenient/harsh etc...... It is fascinating and mortifying.

And yes you are right, more people will learn and play these games.

But this is not new. This has been happening from my childhood (sham marriages) but the difference now is the just the scale.
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  #223  
Old 04.07.2021, 13:49
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You know, in a funny way, the most Refugee Friendly approach is zero tolerance to henious crimes committed by Refugees.
That sounds counter intuitive but here is why it makes sense.

If you ignore/belittle/defend crimes by refugees, you not only send a message to others who want to come to your country, you also strengthen the far right which lives off this narrative.
Many many years ago I was having a conversation with a guy on a train. He was an elderly Algerian who had emigrated to France a long long time ago and he was bemoaning that the younger Algerians in France were out of control and doing all sorts of terrible things that were giving law abiding Algerians a bad name and fueling hatred against them. He was saying that part of the problem was that fathers were being prevented from discipling their sons by the police and social services who would get involved very quickly if a dad punished his delinquent son, but would look the other way and only provide excuses if the same son became a feral gangster.

I don't want to say he was right, as I don't believe harshness and punishment are the solution to all problems. But I think there is a grain of truth in what he said. Sometimes being tough is what it takes. Of course within limits.
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  #224  
Old 04.07.2021, 13:51
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Is that a serious comment? Women cannot leave Afghanistan without being accompanied by a father, husband or possibly brother.
Was the case in most of the middle-eastern countries I travelled to....especially the very religious monarchies.....Dubai was an exception.

When you look at Crime Statistics, men significantly outperform women in committing crimes. By multiples.

Maybe a better refugee policy prioritises women over men. Women are more law-abiding and rules focused than men in most cases.

Again not being gender biased, just looking at data from crime stats. Curious if the Swiss Data captures gender and what trends it indicates.
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  #225  
Old 04.07.2021, 13:51
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Is that a serious comment? Women cannot leave Afghanistan without being accompanied by a father, husband or possibly brother.
Normally when you run away you don't first ask for permission.
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  #226  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:01
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Many many years ago I was having a conversation with a guy on a train. He was an elderly Algerian who had emigrated to France a long long time ago and he was bemoaning that the younger Algerians in France were out of control and doing all sorts of terrible things that were giving law abiding Algerians a bad name and fueling hatred against them. He was saying that part of the problem was that fathers were being prevented from discipling their sons by the police and social services who would get involved very quickly if a dad punished his delinquent son, but would look the other way and only provide excuses if the same son became a feral gangster.

I don't want to say he was right, as I don't believe harshness and punishment are the solution to all problems. But I think there is a grain of truth in what he said. Sometimes being tough is what it takes. Of course within limits.
There is some truth to that.

In my earlier comments, I had talked about cultural mores and people made fun of that.
But that is a reality. It is not a value judgement. It is simply stating the facts.

If your culture believes that a boys life is more valuable than a girl, you will be conditioned by that fact.
If your culture believes Polygamy is OK, that is what you will believe.
If your culture believes that your God/Belief System is superior to the others, that is what you will believe.

And it is not restricted by Religion.

Europe colonised the entire word and called it the 'White Mans Burden' and educating the savages.
Japan colonised and brutalised most of Asia using the same idea of racial superiority.
You see the same happening in Tibet with Hanification.
And needless to add, I cringe every time I see Americans saying they are true Americans.....their forefathers were immigrants who engaged in massive culling of the Natives.

The latest protests in Canada by the indigenous population indicates the same mindset.

We are all biased. We are all products of our conditioning.
Unless we understand our programming, we will never be free of it.
And unless we recognise that our programming is not superior to another, we will never be fair.

Denying cultural differences does not make them go away. It just obfuscates the issue.
How women are treated in your culture largely determines how you treat women.
Yes there are exceptions but exceptions proves the rules.

Highlighting these cultural norms is not racist.
Asking for people to follow your Norms in your country is not racist.
Having a different expectation i.e. they follow your norms when you are in their country, is.

Btw, isn't it interesting that most of the ISIS recruits were 3rd or 4th generation immigrants.....what does that say about representation, inclusion and a sense of enduring grievance......
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  #227  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:14
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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What's funny about the refugees is how around 70% and more are men

just doesnt make sense...does it
That is how it usually works since the days of Christopher Columbus.
The man travels first, gets a job, sets up a home, and then invites the family.
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  #228  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:15
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Many many years ago I was having a conversation with a guy on a train. He was an elderly Algerian who had emigrated to France a long long time ago and he was bemoaning that the younger Algerians in France were out of control and doing all sorts of terrible things that were giving law abiding Algerians a bad name and fueling hatred against them. He was saying that part of the problem was that fathers were being prevented from discipling their sons by the police and social services who would get involved very quickly if a dad punished his delinquent son, but would look the other way and only provide excuses if the same son became a feral gangster.

I don't want to say he was right, as I don't believe harshness and punishment are the solution to all problems. But I think there is a grain of truth in what he said. Sometimes being tough is what it takes. Of course within limits.
Coming from a place where it's OK to spank children and a bit more, and we have an unending violence wave I can tell toughness might not be the answer. It may very well be the source of the violence.

Also, how are violence levels in Algeria? Lower than France?
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  #229  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:19
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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That is how it usually works since the days of Christopher Columbus.
The man travels first, gets a job, sets up a home, and then invites the family.

No Marton, it does not work like that .

works like this usually:
https://cdn.enabbaladi.net/arabic/wp...19/12/02-3.jpg

Those people are fleeing bombs, violent regimes, burnt villages , no water, nothing ...... that's Refugees

What you're talkin about is immigration . (emmigration)
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  #230  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:19
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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That is how it usually works since the days of Christopher Columbus.
The man travels first, gets a job, sets up a home, and then invites the family.
Christopher Columbus was not a refugee. He was a colonizer.

When you are running away from a war or a famine you don't leave the most vulnerable members of your group behind unprotected.
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  #231  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:23
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Normally when you run away you don't first ask for permission.
Amogles, if only it were that easy. Read up on what happens to women on their own in Afghanistan or those trying to flee without a chaperone. It's horrible, degrading and terribly risky.
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Old 04.07.2021, 14:25
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Coming from a place where it's OK to spank children and a bit more, and we have an unending violence wave I can tell toughness might not be the answer. It may very well be the source of the violence.

Also, how are violence levels in Algeria? Lower than France?
I don't know statistics, but Algeria actually has quite a significant urbanized and westernized middle class who live in relative affluence and civility.

Most of the emmigrants to France did not come from that class but from the rural working class who have a completely different culture.

So i would assume that many of the tensions occurring in France also occur in Algeria for much the same reasons. Only that those looking for solutions don't need to live in fear of being called racists.
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  #233  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:25
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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No Marton, it does not work like that .

works like this usually:
https://cdn.enabbaladi.net/arabic/wp...19/12/02-3.jpg

Those people are fleeing bombs, violent regimes, burnt villages , no water, nothing ...... that's Refugees

What you're talkin about is immigration . (emmigration)
A few years back, I took a taxi back from Zurich airport.
The taxi driver was Libyan (quite young).

We started talking about Libya post Gaddafi.
He had left Libya because of Gaddafi.
What he told me stayed with me.

He said that when Gaddafi was deposed, he was super happy because he thought the country would progress and change. But what came instead was enduring chaos and violence. And that has not changed to this day.

And he finally told me that after seeing what happened post Gaddafi, he wondered if having Gaddafi was better than what replaced him.

This is not to defend Gaddafi or his barbaric rule.
It just illustrates the point that well intentioned actions have multiple consequences.
And 'nation building' is a very risky enterprise.
The best refugee prevention approach is ensuring you don't interfere in other countries.
You can draw a straight line between Libya, Syria and the current refugee crisis in EU.

And quite sadly, genuine refugees will always get impacted by the many more pretending to be the same but are actually economic refugees.
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  #234  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:31
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Amogles, if only it were that easy. Read up on what happens to women on their own in Afghanistan or those trying to flee without a chaperone. It's horrible, degrading and terribly risky.
I think its' maybe somewhat naive to think the male refugees made it here without outside help. Including help from western NGOs (often working hand in hand with human smuggling organizations) and starting with recruiters in their home village. I am sure that if there was a will there could be a similar system to help women.
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Old 04.07.2021, 14:33
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Christopher Columbus was not a refugee. He was a colonizer.

When you are running away from a war or a famine you don't leave the most vulnerable members of your group behind unprotected.
The best way to protect your family is for the breadwinner to find a safe place, send money home, then set up a home in the new place and invite the family. I assume you do not have much contact with refugees?

Who said Christopher Columbus was a refugee? He sailed to America and disembarked male Jewish refugees fleeing the Inquisition.
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  #236  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:34
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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This is not to defend Gaddafi or his barbaric rule.
It just illustrates the point that well intentioned actions have multiple consequences.
And 'nation building' is a very risky enterprise.
The best refugee prevention approach is ensuring you don't interfere in other countries.
I don't understand why so many people continue to treat Obama as if he's some sort of a god.

It was fairly clear to anybody with half a brain that taking down Gaddafi was not a good idea.
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  #237  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:37
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You will enjoy this video series by this YouTuber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h89tiY6KMlg

:-)
Interesting - my Hindi is admittedly rusty but I get the drift. On the other hand, not that many YT hits either
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Old 04.07.2021, 14:37
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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The best way to protect your family is for the breadwinner to find a safe place, send money home, then set up a home in the new place and invite the family. I assume you do not have much contact with refugees?

Sending money home? .

What is it about a war that you don't understand?

Next you'll be telling me that in Afghanistan, Amazon delivers stuff to caves.
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  #239  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:42
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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The best way to protect your family is for the breadwinner to find a safe place, send money home, then set up a home in the new place and invite the family. I assume you do not have much contact with refugees?
You assume incorrectly. Like always. At least you are consistent there.


The best way to protect your family if they are in immediate danger of being murdered is to bring them to safety before you bring yourself to safety.
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  #240  
Old 04.07.2021, 14:51
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You assume incorrectly. Like always. At least you are consistent there.


The best way to protect your family if they are in immediate danger of being murdered is to bring them to safety before you bring yourself to safety.
That would be the logical way but due to circumstances that we may never understand, quite often the family father does leave the family to find safety and a haven to bring his family to at a later time.

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