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  #381  
Old 08.07.2021, 11:28
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Some more wood for the fire. Acid attack!

Anyone who is a guest in the country and commits a violent crime needs to be dealt with severely! I don't care about their colour or religion! Nip this crap in the bud!
Where do we draw the line? Those with asyl status should be sent back but those with permits can stay? Is deportation really an appropriate punishment?

There are only two options:
1) deport
2) apply the same punishment as the locals would get

It's a tough issue with no across-the-board satisfactory outcome.
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  #382  
Old 08.07.2021, 11:49
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Where do we draw the line? Those with asyl status should be sent back but those with permits can stay? Is deportation really an appropriate punishment?

There are only two options:
1) deport
2) apply the same punishment as the locals would get

It's a tough issue with no across-the-board satisfactory outcome.

As long as you are not a citizen, you are no way near to being a true local. Serious crime, you are out with permanent ban! I would also say, give citizenship to immigrants on the condition that it would be revoked if a serious crime was committed.

Switzerland's main obligation is towards protecting its own citizens first. I have lived here many years, if I commit a violent crime, then it is my own fault if I get sent back!

People who come from **** holes of the world should be on their best behaviour if they genuinely don't want to return to their *** hole countries. I came from a **** hole country, I know what I am talking about! West has gone too soft!
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  #383  
Old 08.07.2021, 11:52
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Re: Refugees not being deported

So what about those who grew up here? We’ve got a large population of Turks, Albanians, etc who don’t want to become Swiss citizens. They speak the language and have gone through the education system. Should we send them back too?
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  #384  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:03
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Re: Refugees not being deported

The answer is in your question, if they don't want to be deported, don't commit violent crimes and behave like good guests. If you are not a citizen, you are just a guest!
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  #385  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:09
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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So what about those who grew up here? We’ve got a large population of Turks, Albanians, etc who don’t want to become Swiss citizens. They speak the language and have gone through the education system. Should we send them back too?
Who is saying we should send them back?

Immigration can often be an opportunity to improve your own situation as a country. So in an ideal world immigrants should be less criminally inclined and more skilled than the rest of the population so the average gets better over time, not worse.

Of course in reality you often don't realize what you have until they are there. So so much for lofty dreams.

But I can see that sending home criminally-inclined migrants might help in working towards such an objective.
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  #386  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:12
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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So what about those who grew up here? We’ve got a large population of Turks, Albanians, etc who don’t want to become Swiss citizens. They speak the language and have gone through the education system. Should we send them back too?
If they are violent criminals, then yes.

Anyway, why don't they want to become Swiss?

Tom
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  #387  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:14
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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It would be nice if all crime was committed by "guests" and we could protect ourselves from all crime by sending all these guests home but sadly that would hardly reduce crime at all.
Really ??? The fact that nearly 75% of jail residents in Switzerland are non Swiss would suggest you're talking (as usual) utter tits!
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  #388  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:15
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Where do we draw the line? Those with asyl status should be sent back but those with permits can stay?
Both should be deported for violent crimes.

After serving their sentence.

Tom
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  #389  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:16
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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If they are violent criminals, then yes.

Anyway, why don't they want to become Swiss?

Tom
You need to ask them. They have their reasons. You'd be surprised on how many "secondos" don't have a passport. Usually, they want to work here and buy a house in their "home" country to be used during holidays and for their retirement.
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  #390  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:21
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You need to ask them. They have their reasons. You'd be surprised on how many "secondos" don't have a passport. Usually, they want to work here and buy a house in their "home" country to be used during holidays and for their retirement.
That is perfectly their right, similarly Switzerland should have the right to kick them out if they commit a violent crime

I am glad that I joined the thread, only few posts, and we have solved the problem. Now I need to do my tax return! I hear that tax dodging could become a serious crime too
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  #391  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:23
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You need to ask them. They have their reasons. You'd be surprised on how many "secondos" don't have a passport. Usually, they want to work here and buy a house in their "home" country to be used during holidays and for their retirement.
I have an Albanian neighbour who tells me its about respect for his parents who are so patriotically Albanian that they'd have a fit if their darling son became Swiss.

As soon as they pop their clogs he will probably apply.
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  #392  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:42
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Murder, yes.

Tom
Surely that needs to have been premeditated so more likely manslaughter.
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  #393  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:43
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I have an Albanian neighbour who tells me its about respect for his parents who are so patriotically Albanian that they'd have a fit if their darling son became Swiss.

As soon as they pop their clogs he will probably apply.
Would they know? Or do you have to give up an Albanian citizenship if you become Swiss?
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  #394  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:49
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Re: Refugees not being deported

looks like the Austrian authorities are going for this
Vergewaltigung mit Todesfolge und Missbrauchs einer wehrlosen Person (§ 205 StGB) (Rape resulting in death and abuse of a defenseless person)

https://apa.at/news/tote-13-jaehrige...enoetigt-zeit/
I'm going to reserve judgement until after the court case.
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  #395  
Old 08.07.2021, 12:54
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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looks like the Austrian authorities are going for this
Vergewaltigung mit Todesfolge und Missbrauchs einer wehrlosen Person (§ 205 StGB) (Rape resulting in death and abuse of a defenseless person)

https://apa.at/news/tote-13-jaehrige...enoetigt-zeit/
I'm going to reserve judgement until after the court case.
According to the article:
Unter den festgenommenen Tatverdächtigen befinden sich Männer, die einen rechtskräftig negativen Asylbescheid erhalten hatten und sich im Tatzeitpunkt nicht mehr im Land befinden hätten dürfen.

Translated by Deepl:
Among the arrested suspects are men who had received a legally binding negative asylum decision and should not have been in the country at the time of the crime.
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  #396  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:15
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Let everyone in from some of the most backwards parts of the world without any genuine checks. Hey we have already some crime here so why not add more exotic crimes on top
Let people in without any genuine checks, why do you promote such an absurd idea?
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Old 08.07.2021, 13:16
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Let people in without any genuine checks, why do you promote such an absurd idea?
I think it was sarcasm.
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  #398  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:19
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Really ??? The fact that nearly 75% of jail residents in Switzerland are non Swiss would suggest you're talking (as usual) utter tits!
This old chestnut!

Foreigners don't get bail, Swiss do, so most foreigners in jail are awaiting trial where they can prove their innocence
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  #399  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:20
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I think it was sarcasm.
How can you tell
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Old 08.07.2021, 13:20
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You need to ask them. They have their reasons. You'd be surprised on how many "secondos" don't have a passport. Usually, they want to work here and buy a house in their "home" country to be used during holidays and for their retirement.
I appreciate your standing up for your beliefs generally but IMHO we have a simple answer to your question: having your cake and eating it. “Don’t have a passport?” If you’re genuinely stateless, wouldn’t it make sense to apply for CH citizenship? Under whatsoever conditions?
The costs/efforts for secondos aren’t really that high since a few years. However, for instance, male candidates might have to do military service or pay for the privilege of opting out.
If the sensibilities of hide-bound relatives play a role, perhaps “integration” hasn’t worked that well?
Sorry, limited sympathy…
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