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  #401  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:27
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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This old chestnut!

Foreigners don't get bail, Swiss do, so most foreigners in jail are awaiting trial where they can prove their innocence
Interesting article here. Well worth reading all of it
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/crime-s...eign-/44897698
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  #402  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:32
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I appreciate your standing up for your beliefs generally but IMHO we have a simple answer to your question: having your cake and eating it. “Don’t have a passport?” If you’re genuinely stateless, wouldn’t it make sense to apply for CH citizenship? Under whatsoever conditions?
The costs/efforts for secondos aren’t really that high since a few years. However, for instance, male candidates might have to do military service or pay for the privilege of opting out.
If the sensibilities of hide-bound relatives play a role, perhaps “integration” hasn’t worked that well?
Sorry, limited sympathy…
I'm trying to find a source that states how many players on the Swiss national team are actual citizens.

This article https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fu...eich-1.5337112 states that:

Dabei ist die aktuelle Nati ein ziemlich guter Spiegel der Schweizer Gesellschaft. Fast 40 Prozent der Menschen ab 15 Jahren, die in der Schweiz leben, haben einen Migrationshintergrund; mehr als ein Drittel dieser Gruppe hat den Schweizer Pass. Vielleicht bringt dieser historische Achtelfinal-Sieg nun die Wende und verändert den Blick dieses Landes auf seine unberechenbare, großmäulige, aber im Hinblick auf ihre Zusammensetzung doch ziemlich normale Nationalmannschaft. Zumindest den liebevollen Spitznamen gibt es schon.

Deepltranslated:
Yet the current Nati is a pretty good mirror of Swiss society. Almost 40 percent of people aged 15 and older who live in Switzerland have an immigrant background; more than a third of this group has a Swiss passport. Perhaps this historic Round of 16 victory will now turn the tide and change this country's view of its unpredictable, loudmouthed, yet fairly normal national team in terms of its composition. At least the affectionate nickname already exists.
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  #403  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:53
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I'm trying to find a source that states how many players on the Swiss national team are actual citizens.

This article https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fu...eich-1.5337112 states that:

Dabei ist die aktuelle Nati ein ziemlich guter Spiegel der Schweizer Gesellschaft. Fast 40 Prozent der Menschen ab 15 Jahren, die in der Schweiz leben, haben einen Migrationshintergrund; mehr als ein Drittel dieser Gruppe hat den Schweizer Pass. Vielleicht bringt dieser historische Achtelfinal-Sieg nun die Wende und verändert den Blick dieses Landes auf seine unberechenbare, großmäulige, aber im Hinblick auf ihre Zusammensetzung doch ziemlich normale Nationalmannschaft. Zumindest den liebevollen Spitznamen gibt es schon.

Deepltranslated:
Yet the current Nati is a pretty good mirror of Swiss society. Almost 40 percent of people aged 15 and older who live in Switzerland have an immigrant background; more than a third of this group has a Swiss passport. Perhaps this historic Round of 16 victory will now turn the tide and change this country's view of its unpredictable, loudmouthed, yet fairly normal national team in terms of its composition. At least the affectionate nickname already exists.
As I’ve already let slip elsewhere, I’m not interested in football and still support the locally most hated team – GC. Hopp GC!
That generally sports are an avenue for ambitious immigrants to succeed all over the world, is nothing new. I don’t see a valid response to my “answering” your quoted statement (post #401) and am sadly not aware of the "affectionate nickname" - please forgive my ignorance and don't mention Google
  #404  
Old 08.07.2021, 13:56
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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As I’ve already let slip elsewhere, I’m not interested in football and still support the locally most hated team – GC. Hopp GC!
That generally sports are an avenue for ambitious immigrants to succeed all over the world, is nothing new. I don’t see a valid response to my “answering” your quoted statement (post #401) and am sadly not aware of the "affectionate nickname" - please forgive my ignorance and don't mention Google
The nickname is "Nati", which was stated in the article.
  #405  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:24
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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You need to ask them. They have their reasons. You'd be surprised on how many "secondos" don't have a passport. Usually, they want to work here and buy a house in their "home" country to be used during holidays and for their retirement.
How do they visit their home country without a passport
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  #406  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:26
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Really ??? The fact that nearly 75% of jail residents in Switzerland are non Swiss would suggest you're talking (as usual) utter tits!
With the caveat that half the inmates are nonresident.

So when comparing apples to apples it's 50/50, which implies triple the criminality rate among the foreigners. Despite the fact that immigrants from many wealthy countries have the same or lower criminality rate as/than the locals.
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Old 08.07.2021, 14:28
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Interesting article here. Well worth reading all of it
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/crime-s...eign-/44897698
From your link
"Switzerland has one of the lowest prison populations in Europe: 82 per 100,000 residents."
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  #408  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:43
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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The nickname is "Nati", which was stated in the article.
Okay, already admitted my ignorance in most matters – but what does the “affectionate nickname Nati” have to do with undisclosed reasons of immigrants/secondos preferring not to apply for CH citizenship?
AFAIK, Nati is the slightly unfortunate* abbreviaton of Nationalteam. Participants in international tournaments are supposed to possess the relevant nationality – cases of multiple citizenship/divided loyalties are not unknown.



*depending upon pronunciation (and hard of hearing Anglo-Saxon expats) often leads to confusion with a slightly discredited German political party of the past.
  #409  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:47
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I'm trying to find a source that states how many players on the Swiss national team are actual citizens.
All of them. In all national teams. Thats the rules.
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  #410  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:56
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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From your link
"Switzerland has one of the lowest prison populations in Europe: 82 per 100,000 residents."
Precisely.

Of course we haven't compared what exactly constitutes a crime in the various countries and what sentences they carry.

In Switzerland, for example, you're almost in line for a medal if you collect rainwater (at least where I live) whereas in Oregon, (not in Europe, I know) it lands you in jail for 30 days with a 1,500 dollar fine, and presumably, a criminal record.

https://regproject.org/news/oregon-m...ater-property/

I haven't fact-checked this, but for the purposes of having a bit of a chuckle all by myself, I choose to believe it.
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  #411  
Old 08.07.2021, 14:57
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Re: Refugees not being deported

I think it's worth mentioning at this point that Afghanistan still produces 80% of the opium worldwide, and has a central role in the trafficking of opioids like opium, morphine, heroine, etc.

In fact 10% of its GDP are estimated to come from the drug trade!

Further, opium use has been endemic for ages, with more intense use in rural areas. Some families even use opium to silence a crying baby. According to the
Afghanistan National Drug Use Survey 2015 (link at the bottom of the article) 7% of the population use opiates, and 31% of all households have at least one member who does.

In short, opiate abuse has been normalised in Afghanistan. Refugees from there are unlikely to see a problem in drug trafficking, it's what they're used to. Heck, the father trafficks heroine and the aunt smokes opium so why should the children see a problem in that.

And don't try to tell me that the people from a country that has been at war since forever (they had something like 15 years peace during the entire last century) haven't learnt to see the use of force as a legitimate means to have their will done. They've grown up learning that thus it's what they'll keep using. Especially once free from societal and familial control and boundaries, I believe that's what amogles alluded to in his #223 where he mentions an oldster Algerian bemoaning that they're no longer allowed to discipline their sons and teach them to control their anger and superior physical force.

The lack of in-group societal control applies to most male refugees btw, it's a direct consequence of the fact that they predominantly arrive without family. That's one major difference from the earlier waves of refugees.

Humanitarian aide is well and nice, provided the recipients don't bite the hand that feeds them and are willing and able to stand on their own feet after a reasonable time. But the local population comes first under all circumstances, there's zero reason for the locals to make someone else's problem their own, the risk is simply too high with Afghan refugees. The same may well apply to the nationalities along the big drug trafficking routes, including Syrians, who have also known nothing but war for a decade by now.
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  #412  
Old 08.07.2021, 15:06
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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In short, opiate abuse has been normalised in Afghanistan. Refugees from there are unlikely to see a problem in drug trafficking, it's what they're used to. Heck, the father trafficks heroine and the aunt smokes opium so why should the children see a problem in that.
So why can't I throw my rubbish out in normal cheap black bags? It's become quite normalised at home. Don't tell me I'm meant to learn how things work here?
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  #413  
Old 08.07.2021, 15:09
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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So why can't I throw my rubbish out in normal cheap black bags? It's become quite normalised at home. Don't tell me I'm meant to learn how things work here?
wrong thread
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Old 08.07.2021, 15:15
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Okay, already admitted my ignorance in most matters – but what does the “affectionate nickname Nati” have to do with undisclosed reasons of immigrants/secondos preferring not to apply for CH citizenship?
AFAIK, Nati is the slightly unfortunate* abbreviaton of Nationalteam. Participants in international tournaments are supposed to possess the relevant nationality – cases of multiple citizenship/divided loyalties are not unknown.



*depending upon pronunciation (and hard of hearing Anglo-Saxon expats) often leads to confusion with a slightly discredited German political party of the past.
Nothing whatsoever . It’s been called Nati forever .

Just some smart journalist trying to make a point where there isn’t one .
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Old 09.07.2021, 09:22
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Re: Refugees not being deported

Apparently left-wing extremists stormed the offices of Austrian newspaper 'OE24' because the newspaper was ''racist'' as they mentioned the nationality of the perpetrators.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/wien-leonie-u...g-4793030.html

Reminds me of some of the people on this thread. Maybe they also have extremist left-wing views?
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  #416  
Old 09.07.2021, 09:27
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Apparently left-wing extremists stormed the offices of Austrian newspaper 'OE24' because the newspaper was ''racist'' as they mentioned the nationality of the perpetrators.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/wien-leonie-u...g-4793030.html

Reminds me of some of the people on this thread. Maybe they also have extremist left-wing views?
I don't see anyone on this thread who would join in. That's disappointing that you would interpret it in that way.

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Precisely.

Of course we haven't compared what exactly constitutes a crime in the various countries and what sentences they carry.

In Switzerland, for example, you're almost in line for a medal if you collect rainwater (at least where I live) whereas in Oregon, (not in Europe, I know) it lands you in jail for 30 days with a 1,500 dollar fine, and presumably, a criminal record.

https://regproject.org/news/oregon-m...ater-property/

I haven't fact-checked this, but for the purposes of having a bit of a chuckle all by myself, I choose to believe it.
The problem with that article is that they kept putting "reservoirs" into quotations without being specific what they meant. I assume the man dug three huge ponds on his 170 acre property to collect rainwater without having a permit but I'm also inclined to think there's more to the story. However, jail time seems extensive for the crime. It's a weird world.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 09.07.2021 at 09:38. Reason: merging 2 posts
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  #417  
Old 09.07.2021, 10:12
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Apparently left-wing extremists stormed the offices of Austrian newspaper 'OE24' because the newspaper was ''racist'' as they mentioned the nationality of the perpetrators.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/wien-leonie-u...g-4793030.html

Reminds me of some of the people on this thread. Maybe they also have extremist left-wing views?
Great topic to raise which illustrates my view on tabloids perfectly:
- the protest was feminist, not "extreme left wing"
- 20 girls sneaked through a side door, staged a protest with some signs and leaflets. Nobody got hurt, nothing was vandalized.
- the protest was not even about "our" case here at all, the group protests the language the newspaper uses when it comes to violence against women. They dont like it that apparently men "get killed" but women are victims of "relationship drama".

Both OE24 as well as RTL turns this into:
- violent hooded left winged extremists "attack" the offices of a newspaper
- apparently because they want to protect those Afghan rapists and murderer we've been writing about
- the really scared our staff but we are so brave we will never back down and always tell you the truth.

Here is a source with videos of that "violent protest" as well as the leaflets they handed out. https://twitter.com/femizidestoppen

Looks like a bunch of sociology students to me. Not sure how adult reporters would be that scared about them.

Maybe you should consider thinking on your own instead of blindly believing what crap newspapers and TV stations blast out.

P.S: Quality news sources obviously got the story straight. Its barely recognizable that they are reporting the same event: https://www.derstandard.at/story/200...24?ref=article
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  #418  
Old 09.07.2021, 10:41
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Great topic to raise which illustrates my view on tabloids perfectly:
- the protest was feminist, not "extreme left wing"
- 20 girls sneaked through a side door, staged a protest with some signs and leaflets. Nobody got hurt, nothing was vandalized.
- the protest was not even about "our" case here at all, the group protests the language the newspaper uses when it comes to violence against women. They dont like it that apparently men "get killed" but women are victims of "relationship drama".

Both OE24 as well as RTL turns this into:
- violent hooded left winged extremists "attack" the offices of a newspaper
- apparently because they want to protect those Afghan rapists and murderer we've been writing about
- the really scared our staff but we are so brave we will never back down and always tell you the truth.

Here is a source with videos of that "violent protest" as well as the leaflets they handed out. https://twitter.com/femizidestoppen

Looks like a bunch of sociology students to me. Not sure how adult reporters would be that scared about them.

Maybe you should consider thinking on your own instead of blindly believing what crap newspapers and TV stations blast out.

P.S: Quality news sources obviously got the story straight. Its barely recognizable that they are reporting the same event: https://www.derstandard.at/story/200...24?ref=article
Yup, definitely left-wing extremists although I'm not surprised that you can't recognise it.
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  #419  
Old 09.07.2021, 12:51
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Apparently left-wing extremists stormed the offices of Austrian newspaper 'OE24' because the newspaper was ''racist'' as they mentioned the nationality of the perpetrators.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/wien-leonie-u...g-4793030.html

Reminds me of some of the people on this thread. Maybe they also have extremist left-wing views?
Oh it's the same sort of antifa Marxists who were busy killing people during the BLM riots and more recently attacking anti-paedo protesters -
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  #420  
Old 09.07.2021, 13:09
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Re: Refugees not being deported

Isn't it amazing that no matter how hair brained the shite that some extremist left wingers come up with, that certain individuals find a way to justify and defend it.

Yet they accuse us of being the extremists.

A guy on drugs holds a tricolore flag outside the (locked) visitor entrance of the Reichstag = democracy is in great danger, if those brave policemen hadn't intervened we would be living in a deep dictatorship now.

A mob storms the offices of a newspaper because they are not left wing enough = it was a peaceful and happy party

If that's not dystopia, what is?
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