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-   -   Refugees not being deported (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/304834-refugees-not-being-deported.html)

Ato 02.07.2021 13:47

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3323829)
What a thread. So Austria did not deport a refugee who was denied the right to stay in Austra and this guy then rapes and kills a child - and this is somehow Germany's fault?

Some here really need to seek treatment of their unhinged hatred for Germany and the EU.

I was in Austria at the time of the mass influx of refugees. A lot of people were pissed that Germany had told them they were welcome, but of course to get there they had to go through other countries.

A lot of those en route didn't go all the way to Germany and Austria had a mass influx as well. I think it was close to 1 in 80 people in the country had applied for asylum in 2015. That's not an inconsequential amount.

parnell 02.07.2021 13:48

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323822)
Just like Americans should condemn its second amendment due to all the shooting.
Just like Muslims should condemn its fanatical terrorists.

Don't get me wrong, what those refugees did was horrific and they should be punished accordingly. I just don't know how you expect other Afghan refugees to condemn them while living in another country.

Edit: I apologize for saying "all Afghan refugees" but your (and other posters') posts come across as very angry towards refugees.


Firstly they are asylum seekers according to the article - not refugees. They are statistically far more likely to be economic migrants regardless as to what they say.


Secondly if you look at the studies on US gun laws and shootings - you'll find that with the exception of suicide gun laws don't work - because criminals cannot licence guns in the US.

amogles 02.07.2021 13:50

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3323829)
What a thread. So Austria did not deport a refugee who was denied the right to stay in Austra and this guy then rapes and kills a child - and this is somehow Germany's fault?

Some here really need to seek treatment of their unhinged hatred for Germany and the EU.

It's not the first time an Austrian guy did some bad stuff and everybody said it was Germany's fault.

You've got to leave it to the Austrians. they know their PR.

:)

olygirl 02.07.2021 13:51

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323832)
You have been thanking Treverus for providing excuses for their behaviour, and then groaning me for saying the opposite. So it seems clear where your sympathies lie.

To me it seems that Treverus would have preferred if this event had not got out into the open at all. A bit like in Germany where such events are systematically swept under the rug because some people in power are afraid it would give refugees a bad name so its better not to talk about it just in case. Like the recent story of the Somali who murdered three woman.

Talking about it also gives refugees themselves room to air their opinions and show whose side they are on.

I could also say your posts sound like a right-wing fanatic but I don't believe you are. But like you say, talking about it gives _everyone_ room to air their opinions and show whose side they are on.

Amogles, we all believe these criminals should be punished harshly. The problem is when we start making sweeping statements about refugees in general.

komsomolez 02.07.2021 13:53

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323835)
It's not the first time an Austrian guy did some bad stuff and everybody said it was Germany's fault.

You've got to leave it to the Austrians. they know their PR.

:)

"Everybody"? Have not read anything about accusing Germany in the Austrian press. Just now here the usual Germany and EU haters.

And nothing is "swept under the rug" in Germany. There was a large debate now about that Somali guy who stabbed 3 random people to death. One of the people holding the guy until police arrived to arrest him turned out to be another refugee from Iran.

olygirl 02.07.2021 13:54

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 3323834)
Firstly they are asylum seekers according to the article - not refugees. They are statistically far more likely to be economic migrants regardless as to what they say.


Secondly if you look at the studies on US gun laws and shootings - you'll find that with the exception of suicide gun laws don't work - because criminals cannot licence guns in the US.

Parnell, the definition of asylum seekers is as follows:

An asylum seeker is someone who is seeking international protection but whose claim for refugee status has not yet been determined. In contrast, a refugee is someone who has been recognised under the 1951 Convention relating to the status of refugees to be a refugee.

V__ 02.07.2021 13:57

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323793)
Ok, then let me spell it out for you: the girl was 13. At that age is she not allowed to drink, smoke or do drugs. The mother, supplying the newspaper with some photo of what I guess is around 8 years old, tells the paper "yeah, she was very independent, if I had known who she hangs out with would I have done something". Maybe its me, but its your job as a parent to know where your kid is when she is 13. Certainly not 30km away in the flat of a known drug dealer.

The article says at the same time that the girl knew the boys, volunteerly hang out with them... and then suddenly claims that she was "drugged" by them. It surely seems that she wanted the drugs... neighbours say in the article "there was always girls hanging out with them". Same with the sexual assault. We dont actually know that it was an assault, do we?

And no, taking drugs and having sex does not mean she deserves to get killed... but we are not talking about some weed here. Taking ecstacy, especially mixed with other drugs, can lead to a psychosis, fears and rage attacks. A 13 year old cannot be held in any way responsible for this and it could be a terribly tragic incident. But jumping to the conclusion that the guys drugged her, raped her and then killed her is equally stupid. They seem to be having a good time with enough drugs and girls... why kill one?

The article is just extremely biased in the way its written without any facts to back it up. And yes, I strongly believe that it is written the way it is because of the cultural background of the young men. If they were locals would the article describe a terrible drug-related incident... warning people about drugs. Now it warns readers to not trust Afghan refugees. And no, I dont agree to that sentiment.

Maybe I am wrong and the guys deserve to rot in hell... but then is it still not Blick or Kronenzeitung to make that call.

Please stop. You continue a little bit longer and you will be telling us how the deed doesn't really count because the girl was an infidel...

MusicChick 02.07.2021 13:57

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 3323779)
According to the EU itself 80% who came in 2015 were not from Syria

I agree. Some are and Denmark is changing its approach to them, no matter of the integration status seems like. I can't be too pro DN, we will try to beat them tomorrow in Euro-soccer.

But then there is this.

The recent urgent US vs R talks in GE. I think back home it is clear that people consider taking in unfiltered civilians as supporting the conflict. Arming certain powers as trying to end the conflict, but all that is quite hidden. It seems to me that the EU might have benefited and still do from some conflicts or from being a R's ally. I may have it wrong of course, we are not there. But Denmark will be closely watched.

I perso am trying to figure out how and where politics play a good role and how and where media play a good role. And whether local people have their say and what impact it has. I think that should be a priority.

parnell 02.07.2021 13:58

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ato (Post 3323833)
I was in Austria at the time of the mass influx of refugees. A lot of people were pissed that Germany had told them they were welcome, but of course to get there they had to go through other countries.

A lot of those en route didn't go all the way to Germany and Austria had a mass influx as well. I think it was close to 1 in 80 people in the country had applied for asylum in 2015. That's not an inconsequential amount.

Not Germany's since the people of Germany were given no choice on the matter - Merkel made that decision - which was subsequently ruled illegal by the European Court of Justice: "As most asylum seekers try to reach Germany or Sweden through other EU member states, many of which form the borderless Schengen area where internal border controls are abolished, enforcing the Dublin Regulation became increasingly difficult in the late summer of 2015, with some countries allowing asylum seekers to transit through their territories, renouncing the right to return them, or reinstating border controls within the Schengen Area to prevent them from entering. In July 2017, the European Court of Justice upheld the Dublin Regulation, despite the high influx of 2015, and gave EU member states the right to deport migrants to the first country of entry to the EU.[176]



Most sentient people are perfectly aware why the "asylum seekers" headed to Germany and Sweden - and it had nothing to do with refuge from war.

amogles 02.07.2021 13:58

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ato (Post 3323833)
I was in Austria at the time of the mass influx of refugees. A lot of people were pissed that Germany had told them they were welcome, but of course to get there they had to go through other countries.

A lot of those en route didn't go all the way to Germany and Austria had a mass influx as well. I think it was close to 1 in 80 people in the country had applied for asylum in 2015. That's not an inconsequential amount.

I was in Austria too when it happened. In Wien Hauptbahnhof actually.

Everybody i talked to in the days after that said it was Merkel's fault.

A week or so later I was in southern Hungary and saw the devastation that had been caused. Farmers who had been robbed. Old people who were too scared to leave their houses.

All this too was blamed on Merkel.

But do you think Merkel or anybody in Germany did anything to stretch out a hand of friendship and repair bridges?

No, on the contrary. The German press went into overdrive condemning Hungary.

And of course the German Press closed ranks pretty effectively and decided to publish only the official version. So in effect Germany was brainwashed into some false parallel reality.

And then they started lashing out at anybody who disagreed with them. Germany burnt many bridges to people who had previously been its allies.

So I think it's quite fair to talk about Germany when talking about these issues.

Of course many Germans have seen through the lies. But these too are being vilified by the media machine.

olygirl 02.07.2021 13:59

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V__ (Post 3323841)
Please stop. You continue a little bit longer and you will be telling us how the deed doesn't really count because the girl was an infidel...

These kinds of posts got you deleted the first time. Please stop with insults and mudslinging.

parnell 02.07.2021 13:59

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323839)
Parnell, the definition of asylum seekers is as follows:

An asylum seeker is someone who is seeking international protection but whose claim for refugee status has not yet been determined. In contrast, a refugee is someone who has been recognised under the 1951 Convention relating to the status of refugees to be a refugee.


Thank you - that was the point - they are not refugees until they have been verified as such.

olygirl 02.07.2021 14:00

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3323842)
I agree. Some are and Danmark is changing its approach to them, no matter of the integration status seems like. I can't be too pro DN, we will try to beat them tomorrow in Euro-soccer.

But then there is this

The recent urgent US vs R talks in GE. I think back home it is clear that people consider taking in unfiltered civilians as supporting the conflict. Arming certain powers as trying to end the conflict, but all thar is quite hidden. It seems to me that the EU might have benefited and still do from some conflicts or from being a R's ally. May have it wrong of course, we are not there. But Denmark will be closely watched.

I do not understand this post.

parnell 02.07.2021 14:05

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323844)
I was in Austria too when it happened. In Wien Hauptbahnhof actually.

Everybody i talked to in the days after that said it was Merkel's fault.

A week or so later I was in southern Hungary and saw the devastation that had been caused. Farmers who had been robbed. Old people who were too scared to leave their houses.

All this too was blamed on Merkel.

But do you think Merkel or anybody in Germany did anything to stretch out a hand of friendship and repair bridges?

No, on the contrary. The German press went into overdrive condemning Hungary.

And of course the German Press closed ranks pretty effectively and decided to publish only the official version. So in effect Germany was brainwashed into some false parallel reality.

And then they started lashing out at anybody who disagreed with them. Germany burnt many bridges to people who had previously been its allies.

So I think it's quite fair to talk about Germany when talking about these issues.

Of course many Germans have seen through the lies. But these too are being vilified by the media machine.


Good post but consider that the German taxpayer funds most of it's propoganda broadcasting -" The strongest revenue segment in Germany is public funding (4,430 million in 2008), followed by advertising (4,035 million) and subscription (1,150 million)"

amogles 02.07.2021 14:06

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323836)
I could also say your posts sound like a right-wing fanatic but I don't believe you are. But like you say, talking about it gives _everyone_ room to air their opinions and show whose side they are on.

Amogles, we all believe these criminals should be punished harshly. The problem is when we start making sweeping statements about refugees in general.

Nobody made a sweeping statement about refugees in general.

V__ 02.07.2021 14:08

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323845)
These kinds of posts got you deleted the first time. Please stop with insults and mudslinging.

Where as implying that giving drugs to a 13yo is kind a OK because she must have wanted them anyway?

Atheri 02.07.2021 14:08

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
This is going on in other EU countries as well. In my home, there was some refugee taxi driver from Africa (iirc) who raped 2 girls recently.

And when confronted about it in court he started claiming everyone is racist against him and he didn't do anything wrong.

The worst part is that there are some ultra-left "woke" people who are standing with this guy and saying he comes from a different culture and we should be all more understanding.

Events (and people) like this just leave me speechless..

logo123 02.07.2021 14:12

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323831)
One the one hand do you want an "adult" discussion, on the other do you jump from one random fact to another just to proof your point that it was "all cultural".

1. The Rochdale scandal was very different: we are talking about a gang of married adult men who groomed kids. That was both clearly cultural and organized crime.

2. Bacha bazi is indeed a cultural thing. One where OLD men have sex with young BOYS. Not a 16 year old boy with a 13 year old girl. Wanna know what thats called? "pretty normal".

3. Everyone fully agrees that crime deserves to get punished and clearly, in the case of the 18 year old repeat-offender that didnt happen. That an 18 year old becomes a criminal is not automatically a cultural or integration issue... because native Austrians also take drugs. Famously including Austrian politicians...

4. Fully agree that integration is important, not a one way street and what not else... but you are jumping to the conclusion that this is cultural, an integration issue and what not else without any proof. You know what one of the biggest hurdle of integration is? Prejudice. If a young person from another culture makes repeated negative experiences in his new home he will have trouble integrating.

I dont want to respond to some of the things you have said but I will say this.

I don't know in which society having sex with a 13 year old kid is considered 'pretty normal'.....in most countries that is statutory rape....and rightly so...but maybe you think differently

olygirl 02.07.2021 14:14

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V__ (Post 3323853)
Where as implying that giving drugs to a 13yo is kind a OK because she must have wanted them anyway?

Again, the poster never said this. You're just stirring the pot.

olygirl 02.07.2021 14:15

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atheri (Post 3323854)
This is going on in other EU countries as well. In my home, there was some refugee taxi driver from Africa (iirc) who raped 2 girls recently.

And when confronted about it in court he started claiming everyone is racist against him and he didn't do anything wrong.

The worst part is that there are some ultra-left "woke" people who are standing with this guy and saying he comes from a different culture and we should be all more understanding.

Events (and people) like this just leave me speechless..

Atheri, that's horrible and an abuse of the system. I hope that man was appropriately punished.


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