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-   -   Refugees not being deported (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/304834-refugees-not-being-deported.html)

amogles 02.07.2021 14:18

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323861)
Atheri, that's horrible and an abuse of the system. I hope that man was appropriately punished.

And you say this without knowing the details?

Why are you treating the two cases so differently?

Ato 02.07.2021 14:19

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by logo123 (Post 3323857)
I dont want to respond to some of the things you have said but I will say this.

I don't know in which society having sex with a 13 year old kid is considered pretty normal.....in most countries that is statutory rape....and rightly so...but maybe you think differently

Strangely enough, in the age of consent in Austria is 14, or 13 if the other participant is not older than 16.

olygirl 02.07.2021 14:21

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323863)
And you say this without knowing the details?

Why are you treating the two cases so differently?

I'm not. To me, both cases are shitty men abusing women, although in the Austrian case, we're dealing with an underaged criminal and victim.

nickatbasel 02.07.2021 14:33

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 3323717)
An idea which had been proposed years ago on this forum (and others no doubt) to howls of derision from the leftists.
When you remove or reduce the economic incentive to game the system you remove the main part of the problem.

So what is wrong with being an economic migrant?

V__ 02.07.2021 14:35

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323859)
Again, the poster never said this. You're just stirring the pot.

I think we are reading different forums. This is exactly what Treverus said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323793)
The article says at the same time that the girl knew the boys, volunteerly hang out with them... and then suddenly claims that she was "drugged" by them. It surely seems that she wanted the drugs... neighbours say in the article "there was always girls hanging out with them". Same with the sexual assault. We dont actually know that it was an assault, do we?


st2lemans 02.07.2021 14:36

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3323870)
So what is wrong with being an economic migrant?

Nothing if you do it legally.

Tom

LtSoftDrink 02.07.2021 14:36

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3323829)
What a thread. So Austria did not deport a refugee who was denied the right to stay in Austra and this guy then rapes and kills a child - and this is somehow Germany's fault?

Some here really need to seek treatment of their unhinged hatred for Germany and the EU.

Don’t really see unhinged hatred of Germany/EU. Depending upon your POV, I’d say a critical take on Germany’s actions in 2015. Humanitarian crisis and failure to protect EU borders led to Germany leading the way and defusing the refugee crisis with their welcome culture.
Strangely enough, not everybody (Germans included) agreed this was/is a terribly good idea. Summary: after importing a large quantity of culturally diverse people, we have now added a certain amount of new crazies to our own. As it’s generally no longer accepted to shoot them, we are now agonizing what to do. Those who advocated shooting refugees to start with, are getting convinced that shooting local folk who “make excuses” might not be a bad idea. No simple solutions, I fear :msnsad:

logo123 02.07.2021 14:40

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atheri (Post 3323854)
This is going on in other EU countries as well. In my home, there was some refugee taxi driver from Africa (iirc) who raped 2 girls recently.

And when confronted about it in court he started claiming everyone is racist against him and he didn't do anything wrong.

The worst part is that there are some ultra-left "woke" people who are standing with this guy and saying he comes from a different culture and we should be all more understanding.

Events (and people) like this just leave me speechless..

And then you also have this.....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ge-racism.html

What a crazy world we live in.....I fear that woke Politics BS will destroy well intended social integration efforts and actually reverse the progress we have made on social and gender mobility.....

logo123 02.07.2021 14:45

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V__ (Post 3323871)
I think we are reading different forums. This is exactly what Treverus said:

I do hope you understand the concept of informed consent.

That is why most mature democracies have defined age limits for specific actions like Adult Franchise and Sexual Consent.

You CANT argue that a 13 year old kid was 'asking for it'.
You CANT argue that she was NOT asking for it when she changes her mind.

Basically you cant argue that a 13 year old kid could given consent for any sexual activity or drug use.

And by the way, enabling drug use for a minor is an offense.....it may be OK in some countries/cultures but it is not OK in others......and you need to abide by the rules of the country you have chosen to come to NOT the one you come from.....

I am shocked that people are actually arguing that enabling drug use and sexually assaulting a 13 year old child is somehow defensible.....

amogles 02.07.2021 14:46

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by logo123 (Post 3323874)
And then you also have this.....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ge-racism.html

What a crazy world we live in.....I fear that woke Politics BS will destroy well intended social integration efforts and actually reverse the progress we have made on social and gender mobility.....

And then there was the story of the woman in Paris who cut a swastika into her face with a knife and alleged she had been attacked by a racist mob.

And then there was a copycat case of that here in Switzerland, in Dübendorf, that actually had an entire thread to it here on the EF

Imagine having to live with the scars for the rest of your life and all you have to tell is that you tried to start an outrage for political purposes and failed.

olygirl 02.07.2021 14:47

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V__ (Post 3323871)
I think we are reading different forums. This is exactly what Treverus said:

I believe Treverus was referring to this part of the article:

From the article:
Die Gräueltat passierte gemäss ersten Erkenntnissen in der Wohnung des 18-Jährigen. Leonie ging wohl freiwillig mit den Tätern mit, die sie kannte. Die Gruppe konsumierte Ecstasy. Dann wurde Leonie sexuell misshandelt und erwürgt.


There are so many questions here:
1) Why didn't Leonie's mother know what was happening? She freely admits her daughter was very independent and often didn't come home.

Wenig später bestätigen ihr die Ermittler den schrecklichen Verdacht. Für die Mutter bricht eine Welt zusammen. Sie erzählt: «Leonie war sehr früh sehr selbstständig. Wenn ich gewusst hätte, mit wem sie Kontakt hatte, hätte ich es ihr verboten.»

Manchmal habe sie sich mit Leonie gestritten, weil das Kind nicht nach Hause kam. Unter die Trauer der Mutter mischt sich Zorn auf den Hauptverdächtigen: «Ich bin so wütend. Warum ist dieser Mensch nicht schon längst abgeschoben worden?»


My assumption is that Leonie was far too independent and became involved with the wrong type of people. She may have freely become involved with drugs but the article is not clear on this. However, this does NOT excuse what those young men did to her, high or not.

Of course, one could ask if these men would have abused Leonie if drugs weren't involved. We'll never know.....

Ato 02.07.2021 14:49

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by logo123 (Post 3323878)
I do hope you understand the concept of informed consent.

That is why most mature democracies have defined age limits for specific actions like Adult Franchise and Sexual Consent.

You CANT argue that a 13 year old kid was 'asking for it'.
You CANT argue that she was NOT asking for it when she changes her mind.

Basically you cant argue that a 13 year old kid could given consent for any sexual activity or drug use.

And by the way, enabling drug use for a minor is an offense.....it may be OK in some countries/cultures but it is not OK in others......and you need to abide by the rules of the country you have chosen to come to NOT the one you come from.....

I am shocked that people are actually arguing that enabling drug use and sexually assaulting a 13 year old child is somehow defensible.....

Non-consensual acts are wrong, no question there.
But you can argue that a 13 year old in Austria may give sexual consent, it feels odd to me but it is the law there.

MusicChick 02.07.2021 14:50

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323879)
And then there was the story of the woman in Paris who cut a swastika into her face with a knife and alleged she had been attacked by a racist mob.

And then there was a copycat case of that here in Switzerland, in Dübendorf, that actually had an entire thread to it here on the EF

Imagine having to live with the scars for the rest of your life and all you have to tell is that you tried to start an outrage for political purposes and failed.

This is tragic.

logo123 02.07.2021 14:54

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323880)
I believe Treverus was referring to this part of the article:

From the article:
Die Gräueltat passierte gemäss ersten Erkenntnissen in der Wohnung des 18-Jährigen. Leonie ging wohl freiwillig mit den Tätern mit, die sie kannte. Die Gruppe konsumierte Ecstasy. Dann wurde Leonie sexuell misshandelt und erwürgt.


There are so many questions here:
1) Why didn't Leonie's mother know what was happening? She freely admits her daughter was very independent and often didn't come home.

Wenig später bestätigen ihr die Ermittler den schrecklichen Verdacht. Für die Mutter bricht eine Welt zusammen. Sie erzählt: «Leonie war sehr früh sehr selbstständig. Wenn ich gewusst hätte, mit wem sie Kontakt hatte, hätte ich es ihr verboten.»

Manchmal habe sie sich mit Leonie gestritten, weil das Kind nicht nach Hause kam. Unter die Trauer der Mutter mischt sich Zorn auf den Hauptverdächtigen: «Ich bin so wütend. Warum ist dieser Mensch nicht schon längst abgeschoben worden?»


My assumption is that Leonie was far too independent and became involved with the wrong type of people. She may have freely become involved with drugs but the article is not clear on this. However, this does NOT excuse what those young men did to her, high or not.

Of course, one could ask if these men would have abused Leonie if drugs weren't involved. We'll never know.....

Sadly when you look at the etymology of the Rochdale Grooming Gangs scandal, that is also what happened. They preyed on vulnerable girls from broken homes. There is a lot of profiling that goes on.
We can pretend it is happenstance but it is much more deliberate and thought through than just a meaningless crime of passion.

Sociologically there is an argument to be made re. fracturing social support systems and breakdown of the family unit but that is a much broader and controversial conversation.

FWIW, the people who were convicted of the worst offenses in that scandal were released after only serving 50% of very lenient sentences and are now challenging deportation efforts citing ECHR regulations.....!

It is always the criminals and Scoundrels who leverage the protection of the law even though they violate the same laws with impunity.

In some ways, criminals thrive on the understanding and tolerance of society.......

logo123 02.07.2021 14:56

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ato (Post 3323881)
Non-consensual acts are wrong, no question there.
But you can argue that a 13 year old in Austria may give sexual consent, it feels odd to me but it is the law there.

The Age of Consent in Austria is 14 years old. The age of consent is the minimum age at which an individual is considered legally old enough to consent to participation in sexual activity. Individuals aged 13 or younger in Austria are not legally able to consent to sexual activity, and such activity may result in prosecution for statutory rape or the equivalent local law.

Austria statutory rape law is violated when an individual has consensual sexual contact with a person under age 14, with a close in age exemption of 3 years. Of a teen under age 16 and is ""not sufficiantly mature to understand the significance of the act"", then the act becomes punishable.Yes

nickatbasel 02.07.2021 15:04

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by logo123 (Post 3323887)
Sadly when you look at the etymology of the Rochdale Grooming Gangs scandal

I have no idea. What is the linguistic origin of the phrase "Rochdale Grooming Gangs scandal".

logo123 02.07.2021 15:13

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3323895)
I have no idea. What is the linguistic origin of the phrase "Rochdale Grooming Gangs scandal".

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ooming-scandal

LtSoftDrink 02.07.2021 15:17

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3323895)
I have no idea. What is the linguistic origin of the phrase "Rochdale Grooming Gangs scandal".

In this case it seems the “linguistic origin” has apparently been compounded with that pesky geographic denomination we all want to avoid

olygirl 02.07.2021 15:25

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Since we're throwing all kinds of sensational cases into the pot, let me give you Josef Fritzl, Austria's worst father of all time. Can't blame any foreigners or Germany for that heinous crime.

nickatbasel 02.07.2021 15:31

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323906)
Since we're throwing all kinds of sensational cases into the pot, let me give you Josef Fritzl, Austria's worst father of all time. Can't blame any foreigners or Germany for that heinous crime.

Not to mention poor old Fred West. Trust the press to concentrate on him being a murderer and not care a hoot about his excellent work as a builder.


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