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  #121  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:07
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Exactly. You're describing it yourself. What you experienced was not racism.
No I chose not to see racism in every slight against me or my own - because I cannot know the motives for those who slighted me and hence give others the benefit of the doubt. What was your experience ?
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  #122  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:11
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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A culture which has a very informed view on consent and recognises that children should be treated as children...and consent exists for a reason....now....WHICH culture are you from?
As both my profile and introduction thread say am I German. Given your answer are you probably not European. You have the religious warrior feel of an American, but clearly neither the language skills nor the capability to use an online forum. So I guess you are an upper class child from a third world country who feels entitled to live here and hates it when other folks make it through asylum or else.
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  #123  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:17
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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As both my profile and introduction thread say am I German. Given your answer are you probably not European. You have the religious warrior feel of an American, but clearly neither the language skills nor the capability to use an online forum. So I guess you are an upper class child from a third world country who feels entitled to live here and hates it when other folks make it through asylum or else.
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  #124  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:19
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Thank you..... :-)
You missed 'religious warrior feel of an American'.....
Hell To The Yeah.....
USA.....USA.....USA
LoL
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  #125  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:24
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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No I chose not to see racism in every slight against me or my own - because I cannot know the motives for those who slighted me and hence give others the benefit of the doubt. What was your experience ?
1. Being yelled at "Ching Chang Chong!" while waiting at a tram stop
2. With absolute hatred in her eyes, an elderly person on the street saying "Arghh! Asiatin!" in my face, obviously soon after the pandemic broke out
3. When my mother was visiting, we went into a boutique in the old town and when my mother tried to return a skirt she took in her hands once (she did not even try it on), the lady of the store snatched it out of her hand with full force, and proceeded to yell at us "gehe weg, gege weg!" with both her arms/hands waving us out

I am Asian. The other person in each example was white. You want more? The list will get very long if I share my life and those of my friends and colleagues. Your experience clearly is not racism so don't equate it with this thread.

As I said, if I had started a thread about those American military men having raped and murdered young girls in Japan, no one on this forum would have condemned or generalized "ALL Americans" or "ALL Military guys".
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  #126  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:26
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Given your answer are you probably not European. You have the religious warrior feel of an American,
For a thread about possible racism and not extrapolating from individuals to the group, this simply beats it.
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  #127  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:30
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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1. Being yelled at "Ching Chang Chong!" while waiting at a tram stop
2. With absolute hatred in her eyes, an elderly person on the street saying "Arghh! Asiatin!" in my face, obviously soon after the pandemic broke out
3. When my mother was visiting, we went into a boutique in the old town and when my mother tried to return a skirt she took in her hands once (she did not even try it on), the lady of the store snatched it out of her hand with full force, and proceeded to yell at us "gehe weg, gege weg!" with both her arms/hands waving us out
The first 2 out of the 3 I agree are racist - the last you can't be certain - could be tons of things for example the shop not having any cash - why do you think it's racism ? EDIT: By the way I'm sorry that you had to experience that - it's terrible behaviour.

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I am Asian. The other person in each example was white. You want more? The list will get very long if I share my life and those of my friends and colleagues. Your experience clearly is not racism so don't equate it with this thread.
It's about as racist as your third example

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As I said, if I had started a thread about those American military men having raped and murdered young girls in Japan, no one on this forum would have condemned or generalized "ALL Americans" or "ALL Military guys".
Don't assume - try and see and be prepared to accept you're wrong. Also I think you'll find that the Japanese treated POWs far worse than any other side in WW2 so again be careful.
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  #128  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:30
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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For a thread about possible racism and not extrapolating from individuals to the group, this simply beats it.
Thank you.....

That entire comment was deeply offensive and insulting.
That said, I also responded in the same vein which, in hindsight, simply means that I have dropped to the same level. And that is not me.

As a wise man once said, even if you win a pig fight, you still remain a pig.
Ergo, my comment deleted.

I am happy being a American warrior who was born to very rich 3rd world parents.... LoL
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  #129  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:30
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Re: Refugees not being deported

logo123 , you are looking at it in a very binary way .

What was explained is how a 13y old one can have sex with a 17y old and that's not punishable. (unless it's a rape and then there's a different juridical procedure which is for minors)

In other words, it's also about the fact how 12,13,14y old , in case they claim (file a report) how 18+ had sex with them (even with a consent) , then automatically the adult is considered guilty , consent or not .
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  #130  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:50
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Re: Refugees not being deported

summergirl, you are right about how everyone is racist. Everyone.

But, for the simple reason because it's in the human nature to look at others and "receive" information , subconscious or conscious.
This means, let's say a white person sees asians they have some preconceived ideas of what asians are (eating rice, dark hair etc) then there's the judgement "poor" or "rich" and so on .. If in a group, then they tend to make "jokes" gestures and all that..

Then that same white person that we'd say "racist" thinking how "hmm they're bad , judging in a condescending way people from other parts of the world" .. you put them next to a white but an immigrant, from some poor country then , they'll be condescending with prejudice but there's another word for that. (like nationalists etc)

Then, if we go back (because now it's less common but it exists) you put that same white person from Jura and the other one from Neuchatel well , if you listen to some reasoning then it goes like "oh , them??? they're so stupid there,have that weird accent , they eat like pigs, dirty.. and they're dumb" "never I'd let my son marry someone from over there!"

If minority are ginger then "those who are ginger they're possessed by the devil" , "the most stubborn are the ginger" ..))

Then , those who are overweight or too tall or too short, same thing.Basically, it's in the human nature to always , either stick to the group (logic), or , stick to pathetic stuff they were told when they were young .. and so on

The only thing I think we exaggerate is how "white" are considered to be the racist ones. And that's not true. Also, I remember I was in hong kong , group of us , were all blond , hair,fairskin .. And when visiting villages , we were considered like a walking circus People were so shocked and running after us, some tried just to touch us .. the ones that had blonde curls were a special attraction, photos taken , laughter , all of it ) so imagine, if there's a group of Bangladeshis going around in Oftringen or Frick and people looking at them , taking pics , being surprised ,pointing with a finger .. we'd say "omg that's so racist they look at that group of people as an attraction"
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  #131  
Old 02.07.2021, 18:58
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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summergirl, you are right about how everyone is racist. Everyone.

But, for the simple reason because it's in the human nature to look at others and "receive" information , subconscious or conscious.
This means, let's say a white person sees asians they have some preconceived ideas of what asians are (eating rice, dark hair etc) then there's the judgement "poor" or "rich" and so on .. If in a group, then they tend to make "jokes" gestures and all that..

Then that same white person that we'd say "racist" thinking how "hmm they're bad , judging in a condescending way people from other parts of the world" .. you put them next to a white but an immigrant, from some poor country then , they'll be condescending with prejudice but there's another word for that. (like nationalists etc)

Then, if we go back (because now it's less common but it exists) you put that same white person from Jura and the other one from Neuchatel well , if you listen to some reasoning then it goes like "oh , them??? they're so stupid there,have that weird accent , they eat like pigs, dirty.. and they're dumb" "never I'd let my son marry someone from over there!"

If minority are ginger then "those who are ginger they're possessed by the devil" , "the most stubborn are the ginger" ..))

Then , those who are overweight or too tall or too short, same thing.Basically, it's in the human nature to always , either stick to the group (logic), or , stick to pathetic stuff they were told when they were young .. and so on

The only thing I think we exaggerate is how "white" are considered to be the racist ones. And that's not true. Also, I remember I was in hong kong , group of us , were all blond , hair,fairskin .. And when visiting villages , we were considered like a walking circus People were so shocked and running after us, some tried just to touch us .. the ones that had blonde curls were a special attraction, photos taken , laughter , all of it ) so imagine, if there's a group of Bangladeshis going around in Oftringen or Frick and people looking at them , taking pics , being surprised ,pointing with a finger .. we'd say "omg that's so racist they look at that group of people as an attraction"
Look: I am European, my wife is Asian. We experienced racism both ways and yes, that is unfortunately normal. But this thread is about an example. Its about a case where Blick as well as a whole bunch of user immediately jump to conclusions based on the nationality of the boys involved. All sorts of stereotypes were brought up, mostly under the veil of "thats their culture"... the one way to get ignorance out of people is experience. I really wish that more people on this thread would make real life first hand experiences with some refugees... but that would probably be too much for the armchair warriors.
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  #132  
Old 02.07.2021, 19:08
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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Your ability to understand is sadly lacking. If you wanted to insult me I'd prefer you do so openly.
Like this?
https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ml#post3323925
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  #133  
Old 02.07.2021, 19:12
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Re: Refugees not being deported

Treverus, in my opinion, what Blick did with that article has nothing to do with journalism . In any shape or form. That's just a government PR. To stir and create a topic so sheeple will be amused with their hatred towards those savages.

Why ? Well, if we look at that article, how come we read about that poor girl's mother's tears, "oh my daughter was so independent" " I want those savages to be send back to their country!" .. when, on the first place, it's all about the mother, the fact how she let her child wander somewhere , that mum had not a clue where the girl is (cause she's so independent) ..Then since when, ? since she's 11 , she goes out ? what does that mum do actually while the girl is out partying? etc etc.

if the article was real journalism, it would've showed some serious bad parenting, drug abuse maybe, perhaps that woman is known to neglect her child/children, school, social services issues ..But no, the whole article is " we need to send them back to where they came from!" ))))

I guess, this just like terrorism storytelling is only to guide people in a direction they wish to guide the masses, this is especially good if they want to pass some weird laws, or election time .. or raising prices of the electricity, petrol..

Those mechanisms - never die
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  #134  
Old 02.07.2021, 20:30
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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logo123 , you are looking at it in a very binary way .

What was explained is how a 13y old one can have sex with a 17y old and that's not punishable. (unless it's a rape and then there's a different juridical procedure which is for minors)

In other words, it's also about the fact how 12,13,14y old , in case they claim (file a report) how 18+ had sex with them (even with a consent) , then automatically the adult is considered guilty , consent or not .
Actually not necessarily binary. Let me explain. But happy to be challenged.

From a moral point of view, I am outraged but I recognise personal values are just that so maybe others are fine with such young people engaging in sexual activity.

From a Legal point of view, the age of consent in Austria is 14 so there is very clear view on what is legal/ill-legal. And age of consent does not get over-ruled by 'she wanted it' simply because under-age people are not able to make informed choices ergo age of consent.

Btw, there is a huge point re. informed Consent which is a completely different discussion all together even if you are an adult (see legal trials of Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein as examples). Incase of under-age kids, it is pretty binary.

I also some cute comments about Rochdale Scandal so I will clarify.
The scandal was first highlighted in 2008 but it had been going on for much earlier. Even though sentencing was done in 2012, one of the main insights was the insidious silence from the community and law enforcement on the systematic abuse of girls who came from broken homes. And investigation showed that the reason the community and law enforcement kept quiet was for 02 reasons. Community silence was driven by the fact that they wanted to avoid shame and keep the issue hidden. Law Enforcement silence was driven by the need to avoid looking 'racist' especially as all the abusers were men from a particular region and religious persuasion.

What was particularly galling was that one of the victims went to CPS and complained about the abuse but she was turned away and sent back to the abusers for the reasons I have mentioned already.

Racism is a very fine sword and erring on either side has consequences. And I say this having been a victim of it but not being defined by it.

And finally, the issue here is not of Refugees or Citizens.

In my book, anyone who sexually assaults and kills a child, deserves the death penalty. It is as simple as that. No exceptions.

I believe that we are all products of our respective cultures.
You can always transcend that by becoming aware of the conscious and unconscious behavioural mores that you have imbibed from childhood.
Denying the cultural difference is being silly and potentially very dangerous.
Defining that and being open about it is not being racist. It is being honest.

Everyone should be treated with respect and fairness. But that extends both ways.

And I would argue that the burden of understanding is far higher on the side of the person claiming asylum and refugee. Simply because they have chosen to be part of the system. So they need to learn what is acceptable and what is not. And refusing to do that and then pretending it is racism when asked to, is very disingenuous.

I have no issues if people disagree with my point of view. Thats fine.
We are all fundamentally biased one way or another.

However I will say that insulting someone by questioning their nationality and making crude, ill-informed comments about their upbringing is deeply offensive.
And you cant justify that nonsense by saying my partner is Asian so my arrogance and rudeness must be excused.
That is despicable. So Shame on your sir.

I hope the mother who has lost her child finds closure and Peace.
Peace Out.
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  #135  
Old 02.07.2021, 20:44
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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The first 2 out of the 3 I agree are racist - the last you can't be certain - could be tons of things for example the shop not having any cash - why do you think it's racism ? EDIT: By the way I'm sorry that you had to experience that - it's terrible behaviour.


It's about as racist as your third example


Don't assume - try and see and be prepared to accept you're wrong. Also I think you'll find that the Japanese treated POWs far worse than any other side in WW2 so again be careful.
I truly don’t understand your possible reasoning of the shop not having had enough cash but I guess you misunderstood the situation, maybe the way I explained it was misleading. To explain more in detail, my mother and I walked into the boutique shop (shop lady already barely acknowledged us while I said gruezi with a smile) and my mother took a skirt off the rack, held it in front of her by a mirror to see if it would fit, but it was clearly not her size, so she wanted to ‘return’ it to the rack, when the shop owner snatched it out of her hands and yelled at us to go away. Yes, like you say, I cannot be 100% certain but with a very confident 99% I’d say she would not have kicked Swiss German speaking customers out of her shop like she did to us. I’ll say “Swiss German” as it seems to trigger when I say white people.

Now for the second bolded part, I find that a VERY aggressive and offensive comment and completely displaced to bring up war crimes. So what? Japanese and Germans who didn’t even partake in these war crimes are not allowed to talk about crimes?
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  #136  
Old 02.07.2021, 20:48
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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...in my opinion, what Blick did with that article has nothing to do with journalism . In any shape or form. That's just a government PR. To stir and create a topic so sheeple will be amused with their hatred towards those savages.
I agree with everything except it being government PR. Blick is never after the truth, they are after clicks and page views, whatever it takes. If that means bashing the government, they'll do that. If it means bashing immigrants, they'll do that too.

But the part about nothing to do with journalism, I agree.
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Old 02.07.2021, 21:00
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Re: Refugees not being deported

So send the scum to an Austrian adult prison to rot for the rest of their short lives.

It won't take long.

Then no need to deport them.

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Old 02.07.2021, 21:01
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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I truly don’t understand your possible reasoning of the shop not having had enough cash but I guess you misunderstood the situation, maybe the way I explained it was misleading. To explain more in detail, my mother and I walked into the boutique shop (shop lady already barely acknowledged us while I said gruezi with a smile) and my mother took a skirt off the rack, held it in front of her by a mirror to see if it would fit, but it was clearly not her size, so she wanted to ‘return’ it to the rack, when the shop owner snatched it out of her hands and yelled at us to go away. Yes, like you say, I cannot be 100% certain but with a very confident 99% I’d say she would not have kicked Swiss German speaking customers out of her shop like she did to us. I’ll say “Swiss German” as it seems to trigger when I say white people.
You're right - I misunderstood what you wrote - I thought your Mum bought it and returned it later - and a lot of retail outlets are in dire straits...

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Now for the second bolded part, I find that a VERY aggressive and offensive comment and completely displaced to bring up war crimes. So what? Japanese and Germans who didn’t even partake in these war crimes are not allowed to talk about crimes?
Nothing offensive or aggressive at all about it - nor intended to be - you brought up war crimes remember:
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As I said, if I had started a thread about those American military men having raped and murdered young girls in Japan
Which that was my original point - one can CHOOSE to see racism or take offence - and that is a choice. I choose not to take offence unless I am certain that is intended and even then it says more about the other party.
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Old 02.07.2021, 21:04
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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But this thread is about an example. Its about a case where Blick as well as a whole bunch of user immediately jump to conclusions based on the nationality of the boys involved.
BULLSHIT!

a) it's not just the Blick, I looked it up in various languages, the story is always the same.

b) their nationality is IRRELEVANT

c) and YOUR victim blaming is truly DISGUSTING! But at least I won't comment on that being a result of your origins, as that would be non PC.

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Old 02.07.2021, 21:09
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Re: Refugees not being deported

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To stir and create a topic so sheeple will be amused with their hatred towards those savages.

Why ? Well, if we look at that article, how come we read about that poor girl's mother's tears, "oh my daughter was so independent" " I want those savages to be send back to their country!" .. when, on the first place, it's all about the mother, the fact how she let her child wander somewhere , that mum had not a clue where the girl is (cause she's so independent) ..Then since when, ? since she's 11 , she goes out ? what does that mum do actually while the girl is out partying? etc etc.
:
I agree with both of what you wrote here.

On your previous comment re racism, I never said only white people are racist. In my personal experiences they were white. Japanese can be racist against South East Asians, when I lived in Singapore, I’ve heard many racist comments by Singaporean Chinese to Malay or Indian Singaporeans or mainland Chinese.
So I agree with you that racism exists everywhere and is definitely not a white thing only.

Some of your examples however don’t equate to racism. Being stared at, taken photos of- being in a remote area where the locals have hardly seen a blonde person (for example) is ‘curiosity, surprise, interest’. It is like you say “something out of your norm” but it becomes racism when that attention is used to degrade and insult the person. And yes, this can happen both ways but- white culture is more something Asians look up to- than the opposite.

Also the example you gave about ginger-heads. What some of them experience is as bad as racism, it’s just not “racism” as it’s not based on their race. It’s “discrimination”. Again, it’s just as horrible and any sort of discrimination (not just race) should not be tolerated.
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