English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   International affairs/politics (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/)
-   -   Refugees not being deported (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/304834-refugees-not-being-deported.html)

vushka 02.07.2021 08:29

Refugees not being deported
 
Austria is discussing a more hardline approach to deporting refugees who commit crimes after several Afghan refugees raped and killed a 13 year old girl in Vienna.

At least one of them had multiple convictions but could not be deported due to his age. I hope they finally start to take a more realistic approach to this problem.

Link to the (German) Blick:
https://www.blick.ch/ausland/nach-to...d16644304.html

Chuff 02.07.2021 08:40

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Deportation? Raplng and kiIling a child should imo carry a death sentence.

It's a shame that we can't find seem to find an equal balance of human rights and freedoms vs being able to harshly punish those who commit the most heinous crimes in society; there is often seemingly a conflict of interest between the two.

olygirl 02.07.2021 09:17

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
In Afghanistan, the men would either be killed or celebrated, depending on who was governing the area they lived in. It's a sick world.

Kittster 02.07.2021 09:43

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3323646)
Deportation? Raplng and kiIling a child should imo carry a death sentence.

It's a shame that we can't find seem to find an equal balance of human rights and freedoms vs being able to harshly punish those who commit the most heinous crimes in society; there is often seemingly a conflict of interest between the two.

Well, my aunt used to work in HM Prison Durham when it was still a high security prison (it housed people like Myra Hindley and Ian Brady) and there was apparently a special hierarchy among prisoners, with anyone who harmed children being at the very, very bottom. Guards would not be particularly motivated to ensure the safety of those individuals... Various prison reforms (most of which very necessary and important if there is meant to be an actual rehabilitation of prisoners) mean that this type of "informal additional punishment" is not quite so prevalent but it still happens as far as I know. So prison at the very least.

However, I would prefer there to be a strict rule of certain crimes resulting in immediate deportation if it is proven beyond doubt that the person committed them. And since the EU can decide on laws that apply everywhere, they should also be hit with a lifelong ban on re-entering the area.

I don't care how traumatised you are, there is never, EVER an excuse to physically harm another human being who has done nothing to you. Obviously, if there was provocation or the other person attacked you and you are defending yourself, it's a different issue. Otherwise I could see skinheads starting to provoke refugees with the goal of getting them deported for defending themselves. But what these despicable maggots did simply cannot stand and my personal view is that human rights should only protect those who respect the human rights of others. You cannot expect to benefit from a moral code when you yourself spit on that code.

olygirl 02.07.2021 09:49

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
The problem with deportation is that those sick bast*ds are still free and can continue their heinous crimes until they finally land in jail or are killed.

vushka 02.07.2021 10:03

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
I think Denmark is on the right track with offshore asylum centres. That way you don't end up with migrants gaming the system, avoiding deportation and ultimately committing heinous crimes like this.

Tom1234 02.07.2021 10:16

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3323663)
In Afghanistan, the men would either be killed or celebrated, depending on who was governing the area they lived in. It's a sick world.

The men would rarely be killed but the rape victims are often murdered in an honour killing for adultery, or forced to marry the rapist.

Shocking.

Chuff 02.07.2021 10:26

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vushka (Post 3323692)
I think Denmark is on the right track with offshore asylum centres. That way you don't end up with migrants gaming the system, avoiding deportation and ultimately committing heinous crimes like this.

I didn't know they had done that and I think it's a good idea to separate them from the general population until they are full processed and either approved or denied.

Treverus 02.07.2021 10:38

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3323708)
I didn't know they had done that and I think it's a good idea to separate them from the general population until they are full processed and either approved or denied.

Why? Refugees are not exactly all rapist or criminals or in any way dangerous. Why should they be locked up? Its people who flee from terrible trauma and if anything do the camps from Australia to Greece only add more trauma.

The key is not to lock them up but to finally make the processes work and ideally work a lot faster. But that would shift the blame from the refugees to the government... In many of the existing criminal and terrorist cases were all the warning signs there, but the governments failed to react on time. Shifting the blame to the refugees as a group instead of singling out the dangerous and criminal ones is the exact same sort of discussion we have on any other minority from "the Yugos" to "all black men are drug dealers". Different day, same bullshit.

parnell 02.07.2021 10:46

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vushka (Post 3323692)
I think Denmark is on the right track with offshore asylum centres. That way you don't end up with migrants gaming the system, avoiding deportation and ultimately committing heinous crimes like this.

An idea which had been proposed years ago on this forum (and others no doubt) to howls of derision from the leftists.
When you remove or reduce the economic incentive to game the system you remove the main part of the problem.

parnell 02.07.2021 10:47

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323713)
Why? Refugees are not exactly all rapist or criminals or in any way dangerous.

Genuine refugees yes. Please provide your 100% accurate method of determining "genuine refugees" from economic migrants.

MusicChick 02.07.2021 10:50

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 3323717)
An idea which had been proposed years ago on this forum (and others no doubt) to howls of derision from the leftists.
When you remove or reduce the economic incentive to game the system you remove the main part of the problem.

So what do you do if you have quotas to accept certain number unconditionally and at the same time you provide the economic incentive, too? And why are V4s being shamed for their questioning?

Chuff 02.07.2021 10:53

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323713)
Why? Refugees are not exactly all rapist or criminals or in any way dangerous. Why should they be locked up? Its people who flee from terrible trauma and if anything do the camps from Australia to Greece only add more trauma.

The key is not to lock them up but to finally make the processes work and ideally work a lot faster. But that would shift the blame from the refugees to the government... In many of the existing criminal and terrorist cases were all the warning signs there, but the governments failed to react on time. Shifting the blame to the refugees as a group instead of singling out the dangerous and criminal ones is the exact same sort of discussion we have on any other minority from "the Yugos" to "all black men are drug dealers". Different day, same bullshit.

The point is that a refugee should be considered as unknown potentially dangerous and not mixed with the general population of a country until they have been properly processed and approved.

I don't agree that refugees are all traumatised and should automatically be given every chance upon arrival. You say Denmark are "locking them up" for dramatic effect, but in reality they are being segregated in a secure facility for processing while it is determined what their background and intentions are. They can then either be approved and released into society, or deported.

The last years have shown beyond any doubt that not all refugees are innocent or have good intentions and if even a small proportion of them will potentially commit serious crimes then precautions should be put in place to do some screening and checks while protecting the general population.

How do you in your words: "single out the criminals" when male refugees often lie about their age and throw away their ID/passports? :confused:

Phil_MCR 02.07.2021 11:05

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323713)
Why? Refugees are not exactly all rapist or criminals or in any way dangerous. Why should they be locked up? Its people who flee from terrible trauma and if anything do the camps from Australia to Greece only add more trauma.

The key is not to lock them up but to finally make the processes work and ideally work a lot faster. But that would shift the blame from the refugees to the government... In many of the existing criminal and terrorist cases were all the warning signs there, but the governments failed to react on time. Shifting the blame to the refugees as a group instead of singling out the dangerous and criminal ones is the exact same sort of discussion we have on any other minority from "the Yugos" to "all black men are drug dealers". Different day, same bullshit.

processing faster might not eliminate the issue: after all, one can be a genuine refugee and also a rapist.

i think a more fundamental issue is that if you let people in who have very different values and beliefs (including how they believe women should be treated) then you'll always have problems.

amogles 02.07.2021 11:13

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3323713)

The key is not to lock them up but to finally make the processes work and ideally work a lot faster. But that would shift the blame from the ..

The problem here has nothing to do with the asylum processing system

It has to do with the fact that candidates whose applications have been rejected avoid deportation and continue to exploit legal loopholes to stay .

In fact the majority of rejected cases manage to stay somehow or other .

And every time somebody is deported you get all the usual crowd shouting murder .

amogles 02.07.2021 11:18

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3323721)
And why are V4s being shamed for their questioning?

Because they are a bunch of untermenschen who live in caves and eat mud . And worse than that , they dared propose that just maybe Germany has it wrong . That is of course against the founding principles of the EU and they need to be punished .

parnell 02.07.2021 11:21

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3323721)
So what do you do if you have quotas to accept certain number unconditionally and at the same time you provide the economic incentive, too? And why are V4s being shamed for their questioning?

Reject quotas as absurd. I would also argue that the economic incentive should be effectively zero - which means that receiving countries provide subsistence and nothing more - the point of the convention is to provide refuge - not a living wage.


Why are V4s being shamed ? Because Merkel and her cronies know they ed up but are using every apparatus of the state to hide that fact. Consider the German football team and their recent match - 3 women were stabbed to death with a further 5 in hospital because of a Somalian "refugee" let in/escorted by their current chancellor - what was their gesture before the match ? A minute's silence for the victims ? No - it was to take the knee - in deference to a racist Marxist movement.


Here's the England football team making a similar political statement in 1935 - to give you some idea as to how insidious such gestures should be viewed: https://webcdn.mmu.ac.uk/news/img/ne...e6dbd4cf8e.jpg

Treverus 02.07.2021 11:23

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3323728)
processing faster might not eliminate the issue: after all, one can be a genuine refugee and also a rapist.

i think a more fundamental issue is that if you let people in who have very different values and beliefs (including how they believe women should be treated) then you'll always have problems.

I might be the only one who read the actual article but the girl was a friend of the guys, they hang out together and did drugs together. That Blick uses a childhood photo of her instead of a more recent one is in my eyes on purpose... because the anger porn gets stronger if the pixilated photo shows a smaller child.

Claiming that the assault happened because of the cultural background of the refugees instead of the drugs is also a bit of a stretch... Its a tragedy which happened among teenagers. Why the 18 year old refugee had his own flat and could do what he did while having a police track record for drug dealing is the real question. Shifting the blame to "the refugees" is the cheap way out for the Austrian authorities and especially their right winged head of state.

MusicChick 02.07.2021 11:26

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323732)
Because they are a bunch of untermenschen who live in caves and eat mud .

We do have some sauerkraut with that, and wurst, strudel and schnitzel. So.. Booo.

The refugees we created a free and quality life for, did not respect the quotas and left for countries with higher subsidies. How is that V4's fault? German politics will be on their own, soon.

amogles 02.07.2021 11:26

Re: Refugees not being deported
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3323732)
Because they are a bunch of untermenschen who live in caves and eat mud . And worse than that , they dared propose that just maybe Germany has it wrong . That is of course against the founding principles of the EU and they need to be punished .

Which is so ridiculous if you consider that these founding principles that the Germans like to get on a soapbox over were actually about protecting the failing coal industries of the Saarland , Belgium and Luxemburg .

A goal in which they failed dismally .


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:58.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0