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  #201  
Old 16.08.2021, 22:56
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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You’re stereotyping and branding a whole race simply because of a few bad apples. That’s racism, Parnell.
No that's the view of the vast majority of Afghanis and Pakistanis sadly
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  #202  
Old 16.08.2021, 23:24
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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So President Biden blames his predecessor, the Afghan leaders and Afghan army. Very Trumpian

What was it we used to say? There's always a tweet...

He forgot to mention how he made the Taliban forces more powerful than some NATO countries. Overnight, the Taliban got:

300.000 American trained troops
634 transporters M1117
8500 Humvees
1000 Soviet tanks
1 million assault rifles and around 800 million ammunition
19 Embraer A-29 attack aircraft
34 Cessna 208
1 Boing 727
4 Hercules C-130
95 Mi-17 (Hip) transport helicopter
8 Mi-24 (Hind) attack helicopter
10 UH-1 "Huey" helicopter
16 UH-60 "Blackhawk" helicopter

The war on terror. We did it Joe!
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  #203  
Old 16.08.2021, 23:39
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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He forgot to mention how he made the Taliban forces more powerful than some NATO countries. Overnight, the Taliban got:

300.000 American trained troops
634 transporters M1117
8500 Humvees
1000 Soviet tanks
1 million assault rifles and around 800 million ammunition
19 Embraer A-29 attack aircraft
34 Cessna 208
1 Boing 727
4 Hercules C-130
95 Mi-17 (Hip) transport helicopter
8 Mi-24 (Hind) attack helicopter
10 UH-1 "Huey" helicopter
16 UH-60 "Blackhawk" helicopter

The war on terror. We did it Joe!
Smart business move, the US will make a fortune selling spares.
BTW, the soviet tanks were junked years ago.
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  #204  
Old 16.08.2021, 23:54
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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He forgot to mention how he made the Taliban forces more powerful than some NATO countries. Overnight, the Taliban got:

300.000 American trained troops
634 transporters M1117
8500 Humvees
<s>1000 Soviet tanks</s>
1 million assault rifles and around 800 million ammunition
19 Embraer A-29 attack aircraft
34 Cessna 208
1 Boing 727
4 Hercules C-130
95 Mi-17 (Hip) transport helicopter
8 Mi-24 (Hind) attack helicopter
10 UH-1 "Huey" helicopter
16 UH-60 "Blackhawk" helicopter

The war on terror. We did it Joe!
Almost enough to equip a major US city's police department!
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  #205  
Old 17.08.2021, 08:06
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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He forgot to mention how he made the Taliban forces more powerful than some NATO countries. Overnight, the Taliban got:

300.000 American trained troops
634 transporters M1117
8500 Humvees
1000 Soviet tanks
1 million assault rifles and around 800 million ammunition
19 Embraer A-29 attack aircraft
34 Cessna 208
1 Boing 727
4 Hercules C-130
95 Mi-17 (Hip) transport helicopter
8 Mi-24 (Hind) attack helicopter
10 UH-1 "Huey" helicopter
16 UH-60 "Blackhawk" helicopter

The war on terror. We did it Joe!
The President is also carrying on where the previous one left off by telling easily disprovable lies. In his speech last night he said "Our mission was never supposed to be nation building", and has subsequently repeated it in a tweet.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1427364918911766533

They literally held conferences on nation building! Talk about moving the goal posts

Bonn Agreement (Afghanistan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonn_A...t_(Afghanistan)

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State building in Afghanistan
Following the fall of the Taliban in 2001, the Bonn Agreement laid the foundation for U.S. and NATO-backed state-building efforts in Afghanistan. The agreement sought to establish a new constitution, an independent judiciary, free and fair elections, a centralized security sector, and the protection of rights of women and also minorities, such as religious and ethnic groups. This model for state-building in Afghanistan was based on a ‘maximalist model of post-conflict reconstruction’ that surfaced in the 1990s, following international interventions in the Balkans, sub-Saharan Africa and East Timor.
A Review of the 2001 Bonn Conference and Application to the Road Ahead in Afghanistan

https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Arti...head-in-afgha/

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As the Bonn Conference’s 10th anniversary approaches, the fundamental challenge is simply stated: how can U.S. national interests in Afghanistan be achieved with fewer resources? This paper answers that question through an analysis of the process that produced the Bonn Agreement in 2001. It offers step-by-step recommendations for U.S. policymakers on how to shape specific conditions in Afghanistan, beginning with Bonn 2011 (Bonn II), for the post- 2014 period. Those recommendations include:

The United States must demonstrate long-term commitment to Afghanistan in the form of a formal strategic partnership announced at Bonn.
Following Bonn, the United States must set conditions for a negotiated settlement through military and diplomatic means:
The United States should announce its intention to maintain a reduced military force in Afghanistan well beyond 2014.
The United States should fund the Afghanistan National Security Forces (ANSF) at the present manning objective (352,000) through 2015, then reassess this requirement.
The coalition should intensify efforts to kill or capture members of the insurgent leadership.
Bilateral preparation should begin with President Hamid Karzai and the issue of Afghan political reforms. Bonn I was about balancing control of central government offices. Following Bonn II, Afghans should rebalance power between the central government and provincial governments. Insurgents willing to lay down arms could play a legitimate role in local governance.
Bilateral preparation should then proceed to Afghanistan’s neighbors and Russia, China, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. This paper offers recommendations for dealing with each country in light of Bonn I and events to date.

Without U.S. commitment through the end of this decade, Afghanistan will likely fall back into the civil war it experienced in the early 1990s. As fighting spreads, India and Pakistan will back their Afghan proxies and the conflict will intensify. This situation would not only create opportunities for safe haven for extremists, but also invite a confrontation between adversarial and nuclear-armed states. The growing strength of Pakistan’s own insurgency and the existential threat it could pose in the future intensifies this risk. The potential for such an outcome runs counter to U.S. and coalition interests. Bonn 2001 began a journey toward Afghanistan’s stability and representative government that has demanded great sacrifice by Afghans, Americans, and other members of the coalition. That journey has come far from its humble beginning and requires American leadership and energy to remain on course.
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  #206  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:31
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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I did wonder about this data you keep bringing up and found some of it quite unbelievable.

I wondered who was funding this Pew Research 'data' collection and analysis and why it appeared to have a bit of a bias to it.
It turned out that the Pews were a Christian Conservative family and is partly funded by the Templeton Foundation - a religious organisation linked with conservative causes and support of Christian-oriented research

Can you see where this is going...?
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  #207  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:36
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

From Dutch newspaper
@NRC
: When Afghan employees of the Dutch embassy in Kabul arrived at the office on Sunday, they were flabbergasted to find that the Dutch had all left without telling them anything. They just left.

Swedish staff left the embassy as their Afghan colleagues worked. Then, they refused to answer calls from the Afghan staff and even blocked their official email accounts. Left the country.

https://twitter.com/jahootsen/status...5Es1_&ref_url=
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  #208  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:36
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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CNN with another “mostly peaceful” moment

https://twitter.com/sophiabfisher/st...77156913139716
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The (American female) reporter said "They were chanting 'Death to America' but they seemed utterly friendly at the same time.
She's standing amongst them.
Apparently, according to people who actually speak Pashtun and who saw the whole broadcast, the people were actually chanting "God is great!" and not "Death to America'" but I guess that just wouldn't make such a good 'news' report.
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  #209  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:45
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Apparently, according to people who actually speak Pashtun and who saw the whole broadcast, the people were actually chanting "God is great!" and not "Death to America'" but I guess that just wouldn't make such a good 'news' report.
It's probably that both "god is great" and "death to america" were being chanted at the time, considering they do absolutely love God and do absolutely hate America.
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  #210  
Old 17.08.2021, 15:43
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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I did wonder about this data you keep bringing up and found some of it quite unbelievable.

I wondered who was funding this Pew Research 'data' collection and analysis and why it appeared to have a bit of a bias to it.
It turned out that the Pews were a Christian Conservative family and is partly funded by the Templeton Foundation - a religious organisation linked with conservative causes and support of Christian-oriented research

Can you see where this is going...?

Yes I can see that you think that 2+2 = 54.


Happily it's bias rating according to media site bias rating site AllSides.com is neither left nor right but center.
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  #211  
Old 17.08.2021, 15:46
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Whoa, that's a pretty inconvenient fact.

Time to ignore and/or discredit!
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  #212  
Old 17.08.2021, 15:55
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Happily it's bias rating according to media site bias rating site AllSides.com is neither left nor right but center.
Where you can vote on whether you think it's biased or not. LOL.
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Old 17.08.2021, 16:10
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Based on the Afghans I know, I also find the survey hard to believe.
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  #214  
Old 17.08.2021, 16:19
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Whoa, that's a pretty inconvenient fact.

Time to ignore and/or discredit!
If you interviewed 100% Taliban in Afghanistan, you'd get 100% of Afghanis agreeing to Stoning to death for Adultery.

I just find the figures quite high and can't find any figures for the number of people interviewed and the demographics.

It's difficult to find any other figures on the web that support the findings of these Pew surveys which don't appear to be particularly transparent.

Of course stoning is barbaric and takes place in Afghanistan, Iran and in tribal areas of Pakistan (where it is generally illegal and treated as a crime of murder) and no doubt a number of citizens of these countries support such acts but I cannot believe the numbers are so high.
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Old 17.08.2021, 16:41
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Based on the Afghans I know, I also find the survey hard to believe.
Of course they would never lie, not even if it's clearly to their advantage. Never ever

Just like they would never lie about their age, that's completely unthinkable.
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I just find the figures quite high and can't find any figures for the number of people interviewed and the demographics.
I seem to remember 1000-1500 for the subsaharan countries (which parnell seems to have removed), roughly enough for a representative poll.

But it all stands or falls with the data quality.

Last edited by Urs Max; 17.08.2021 at 16:51.
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  #216  
Old 17.08.2021, 16:59
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Based on the Afghans I know, I also find the survey hard to believe.
NATO and USA for 20 years thought the same thing
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  #217  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:12
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Just like they would never lie about their age, that's completely unthinkable.

.
People lie for material and other gains. Even Swiss people.
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  #218  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:35
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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If you interviewed 100% Taliban in Afghanistan, you'd get 100% of Afghanis agreeing to Stoning to death for Adultery.

I just find the figures quite high and can't find any figures for the number of people interviewed and the demographics.
To do so you need to read with both eyes open - it's clearly on the same link under "Appendix C: Survey Methodology"
Nevermind here it is :


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Old 17.08.2021, 17:44
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Based on the Afghans I know, I also find the survey hard to believe.
Probably because you choose to keep your head in the sand

I've Worked with Refugees for Decades. Europe's Afghan Crime Wave Is Mind-Boggling.
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  #220  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:48
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Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

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Probably because you choose to keep your head in the sand

I've Worked with Refugees for Decades. Europe's Afghan Crime Wave Is Mind-Boggling.
Speaking of refugees, when my family hosted 3 Bosnian families in our own apartment for about a year, there were the 3 wifes and 5 children. The husbands stayed in what became the sieged Sarajevo to defend their homes.

25 years old males with Iphones are not refugees. Women and children are.
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