Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:18
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
Basically, the Bush admin, married to the oil biz, had the wacky idea that a quick cheap war could get em a pipe line built there. Originally, they tried to wheel and deal with the Taliban without success.
More than that, they actually made the Taliban, because they were a useful force to keep the Russians in check, while being assumed to be sufficiently incompetent to ever pose a danger outside of their country, or even outlive their purpose.

Allies of expedience are not good allies.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:23
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
Get ready for massive flow of refugees fleeing Afghanistan. Young men and families will flee the country while the rest stay behind, forced to surrender to whatever local government assumes power. The taliban, unchecked, will grow in size, force and power, unstoppable until they implode or forces join again n another attempt to eradicate their brutal regime.
As long as you are at war, you can always blame problems and shortages on the enemy, or on the fact that you are at war.

If things don't get better in peacetime, people blame you.

So maybe actually letting the Taliban rule on their terms and failing miserably will inflict more damage on their reputation and support than any war ever could.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:27
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,343
Groaned at 55 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,500 Times in 917 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
So maybe actually letting the Taliban rule on their terms and failing miserably will inflict more damage on their reputation and support than any war ever could.

That is not how it works under Islamist regimes
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:40
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Baden
Posts: 155
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 146 Times in 86 Posts
scrabblegrey is considered knowledgeablescrabblegrey is considered knowledgeablescrabblegrey is considered knowledgeable
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
they actually made the Taliban.
It is a bit more convoluted than that. Talibans were "made" by Saudi Arabia setting up praying center in the huge refugee camps between Pakistan and Afghanistan during the 80s (refugees coming from the Soviet invasion&co).

There were some "funny" agreement between US and Saudi Arabia at the time, about money & weapons ... anyhow, the US thrown about 20 bn $ in Afghanistan to fight the Soviet invasion, most of these money ended up in the pockets of few American companies providing weapons or military training or both.

In the 90s there was some intestine fight for power, which saw the Taliban take a prominent place.

But at the time the US was already rewriting history, as shown here (an article titled "Who Is Responsible for the Taliban?")

In hindsight, and especially after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, it is easy to criticize Washington's shortsightedness. But American policymakers had a very stark choice in the 1980s: Either the United States could support an Afghan opposition, or they could simply cede Afghanistan to Soviet domination, an option that might result in an extension of Soviet influence into Pakistan.

There is a lot of fantasy in this reconstruction: it was well known in the 80s that URSS was going to face economic collapse, if the Soviet expansion would have reached the Indian Ocean it would have been just a mortal blow to its finances, due to needed defense and infrastructure investments, before providing some meaningful contributions to the failing russian economy.

So, in short: yes Bin Laden had a Casio watch, but this is not a proof he was paid directly by CIA, nor is a relevant fact


Fun fact: see documents that can be found in this Dutch embassy site for a funny revival of "the US train islam revolutionary fighters against the oppressive communist power"

Fun fact2: in the 80s, the US started to pump bilion of dollars of oil out of Alaska. And they started playing with OPEC. And this resulted in
the reason for the decline in petroleum prices in the late 1980's there is evidence that this occurred because of a conspiracy between the American Central Intelligence Agency (C.I.A.) the leaders of Saudi Arabia to punish the Soviet Union for its invasion of Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia increased its production of petroleum drastically and consequently the price of petroleum fell. (according to the visually cacophonic site previously cited)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:17
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,869
Groaned at 62 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,758 Times in 1,471 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
It is a bit more convoluted than that. Talibans were "made" by Saudi Arabia setting up praying center in the huge refugee camps between Pakistan and Afghanistan during the 80s (refugees coming from the Soviet invasion&co).

So, in short: yes Bin Laden had a Casio watch, but this is not a proof he was paid directly by CIA, nor is a relevant fact
If it would've been a Timex then for sure. No hiding it!

Just the same, what really ticked off Bin in Laden, is that he wanted to use his faithful Taliban to protect Saudi Arabia, when good old USA ally Sadam turned really roten and invaded Kuwait, but the king turned him down. Then what really ticked him off was instead they allowed that non-Islamic US military onto their turf. That he could not at all take and as we all know the Taliban started learning how to fly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank robBob for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 499 Times in 242 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Afghanistan: misplaced trust in USA evident?

Quote:
View Post
As long as you are at war, you can always blame problems and shortages on the enemy, or on the fact that you are at war.

If things don't get better in peacetime, people blame you.

So maybe actually letting the Taliban rule on their terms and failing miserably will inflict more damage on their reputation and support than any war ever could.
Wouldn't have noticed that people of their ilk really give a F about their reputation. Their miserable failure under any half ways considered "civilized" measures is guaranteed.

Looks like the Taliban have picked up some PR pointers on the way....as have the UN, who still recommend peace negotiations
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Family Reunion for Non-EU (from Afghanistan) Fariha Permits/visas/government 19 14.03.2018 04:08
Misplaced my licence, can I drive there to get it ? RuJoMa Daily life 49 17.12.2014 18:29
misplaced contract lemet Housing in general 0 09.01.2014 00:08
What are we achieving in Afghanistan? Sbrinz International affairs/politics 57 24.09.2012 00:13
Armchair Volunteering - Afghanistan sojoh International affairs/politics 0 09.03.2009 11:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0