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Old 15.07.2021, 16:19
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Where is EU headed?

I dream(ed) of an Europe united and stronger. Something like the welfare of Sweden in the 60s, with the weather of the Espain during Franco. What we got is the Franco welfare, the Franco wealth distribution and social elevator (being stuck, moving in horizontal), with Sweden weather of the 60s (the wettest decades).

And of course, when there is extreme umbalance in wealth, there is extreme violence (correlation does not imply causation and blabla ... how come that in Switzerland there are more weapons than in the US, but less shootings, even in relative terms?) and space for all kind of organized crime to grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...after-shooting

Since Mark Rutte is a proponent of autonomy in fiscal policies, I expect him to learn to look after itself.
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Old 15.07.2021, 16:32
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Re: Where is EU headed?

You‘ve raised 2 subjects at once.

The EU is headed to be smaller with probably only 10 member states. My take is the Common Market as was, was formed as Germany paying or WW2. They have now paid many times over.

Guns work in Switzerland because of education and the Swiss aren‘t cowboys…
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Old 15.07.2021, 17:02
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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the Common Market as was, was formed as Germany paying or WW2
I do not understand it. Germany (to be read as German industries and finance) is by far the greatest winner in the Common Market. And it is still trying to curtail whatever welfare state they had, including education.

Switzerland invests a lot of money in education, the US not. Why? Why does it not make sense for the US to systematically invest a lot of money there? because even with the best education, your working and financial conditions are dictated by which alumni one belongs?

Then it would be clear that going to Yale/Harvard/Stanford is important not because the education they provide you, but because the connections you have. So yes, it does not make much sense to the oligarchy ruling the US to improve the education system: it is doing its job.

But hey, Swiss are definitely cowboys!
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Old 15.07.2021, 17:37
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Re: Where is EU headed?

Hey my (farmer) Neighbour has just bought a pickup truck. No gun rack in sight yet, but I’m getting worried.
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Old 15.07.2021, 17:44
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Re: Where is EU headed?

To answer the posed question the EU is heading down its road.

When you consider that laws can only be proposed by the Commission (which represents Member States) which are debated by the (popularly elected by citizens) Parliament and then given to the Council (also representing Member States) they actually are quite harmless. Oh, and all of the above is subject to challenge in the ECJ.

Don’t worry about the EU, there are too many autocratic regimes out there.
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Old 15.07.2021, 18:57
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Re: Where is EU headed?

The "cowboys" may own and shoot guns, but it is rarely the "cowboys" shooting other people in the USofA.

To the question posed by the OP, I agree that the EU is headed towards fewer member states. Some should not belong due to their economic shortcomings. And unless massive reform occurs, all of them should leave due to the lack of accountability from the so-called leadership.

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You‘ve raised 2 subjects at once.

The EU is headed to be smaller with probably only 10 member states. My take is the Common Market as was, was formed as Germany paying or WW2. They have now paid many times over.

Guns work in Switzerland because of education and the Swiss aren‘t cowboys…
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Old 15.07.2021, 19:13
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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I dream(ed) of an Europe united and stronger. Something like the welfare of Sweden in the 60s, with the weather of the Espain during Franco. What we got is the Franco welfare, the Franco wealth distribution and social elevator (being stuck, moving in horizontal), with Sweden weather of the 60s (the wettest decades).
Europe and the EU are two separate things. Your title refers to the EU and your comment to a dream for Europe.... There is no plan for Europe and the EU is based on shared sovereignty and those shared powers do not even cover your dreams....

Your dream is not based on reality, so no surprises then....

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And of course, when there is extreme umbalance in wealth, there is extreme violence (correlation does not imply causation and blabla ... how come that in Switzerland there are more weapons than in the US, but less shootings, even in relative terms?) and space for all kind of organized crime to grow.
Idiots with guns versus a trained militia... what would you expect?
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Old 15.07.2021, 19:18
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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To answer the posed question the EU is heading down its road.

When you consider that laws can only be proposed by the Commission (which represents Member States) which are debated by the (popularly elected by citizens) Parliament and then given to the Council (also representing Member States) they actually are quite harmless. Oh, and all of the above is subject to challenge in the ECJ.

Don’t worry about the EU, there are too many autocratic regimes out there.
And not a single sentence is this is correct! It gets rather boring hearing the same uneducated nonsense pattered out without even an attempt to actually understand how the EU is organised.

The commission does not represent the states, the council of ministers represent the states and have veto powers and the parliament have the ultimate sanctions over the commission - it's approval and removal.

It is not even worth debating or correcting anymore because...
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Old 15.07.2021, 20:52
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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... the Swiss aren‘t cowboys…
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But hey, Swiss are definitely cowboys!

I beg to solve that question. For one, that would help answer the question of why my local SPAR plays country music all the time... attract the customer or turn off the riffraff?
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Old 15.07.2021, 21:36
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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I dream(ed) of an Europe united and stronger. Something like the welfare of Sweden in the 60s, with the weather of the Espain during Franco. What we got is the Franco welfare, the Franco wealth distribution and social elevator (being stuck, moving in horizontal), with Sweden weather of the 60s (the wettest decades).
Sweden is having a brilliant summer, hasn’t been much below 25c with sun since May - closer to 30c the last 10 days (reports from husband and hound) Not sure what that means for the EU pie chart.

On the other hand, the welfare system failing big-time, it isn’t the 60’s anymore
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Old 15.07.2021, 22:17
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Re: Where is EU headed?



Tom
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Old 16.07.2021, 10:41
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Re: Where is EU headed?

It is an highway paid by European funds, but never built, the ride is *f*ing slow!

I guess all the corrupted politicians bought nice VW SUVs with that money.

I am not sure what people are talking about reforms and shortcomings of some European states. Following the car industry, one can see that Romania (wrt to France) and Portugal as well as Spain and Italy are perfectly integrated in the German automotive chain. Infrastructures have been built with European funds, cheap employees are provided by failing economic systems, all the added value flies to German coffins, spilling to Luxembourg and Liechtenstein, with minimal benefits to the above mentioned integrated countries (how much VW Germany is paying VW Portugal for assembling their SUV in Lisbon?).

What can go wrong?
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Old 16.07.2021, 10:47
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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Idiots with guns versus a trained militia... what would you expect?
Although I tend to agree, why? Why people are idiots? DNA? Lack of education? Lead in the water? I wonder why the most powerful country in the world has so many “idiots”, without any evident interest in changing that, while one of the richest has way less (more than half of the SVP voters are sensible persons … unfortunately).
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Old 16.07.2021, 10:55
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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I beg to solve that question. For one, that would help answer the question of why my local SPAR plays country music all the time... attract the customer or turn off the riffraff?
CH has it's fair share of cowboy wannabees. Can't blame em. It's that good old wild west home on the range good vibration feeling. Nothing beats sitting around a campfire.
https://youtu.be/VPIP9KXdmO0
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Old 16.07.2021, 10:58
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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Although I tend to agree, why? Why people are idiots? DNA? Lack of education? Lead in the water? I wonder why the most powerful country in the world has so many “idiots”, without any evident interest in changing that, while one of the richest has way less (more than half of the SVP voters are sensible persons … unfortunately).
The idiocy is more discreet here.
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Old 16.07.2021, 11:21
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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The EU is headed to be smaller with probably only 10 member states. My take is the Common Market as was, was formed as Germany paying or WW2. They have now paid many times over.
I can't remember who, but one of the famous historians said to understand the Eu you have to look at the reasons people joined, and the reasons they stayed.

Germany was keen to build bridges to its neighbours after the atrocities of WW2.

France saw Europe as a means to platform French values and advance French projects

The southern European states had not long before joining still been dictatorships and feared that they could return down that path without the stabilizing and helping hand of the richer countries.

The Eastern European countries had similar concerns about Russia and socialism.

Britain, Holland and some of the Scandinavian countries just thought it's a nice trading club.

Some of these concerns are still valid today but others have evolved and been replaced by other concerns. The EU thus needs to create new carrots to keep countries happy. Instead EU politics have become increasingly divisive and vindictive.
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Old 16.07.2021, 11:43
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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I can't remember who, but one of the famous historians said to understand the Eu you have to look at the reasons people joined, and the reasons they stayed.

Germany was keen to build bridges to its neighbours after the atrocities of WW2.

France saw Europe as a means to platform French values and advance French projects

The southern European states had not long before joining still been dictatorships and feared that they could return down that path without the stabilizing and helping hand of the richer countries.

The Eastern European countries had similar concerns about Russia and socialism.

Britain, Holland and some of the Scandinavian countries just thought it's a nice trading club.

Some of these concerns are still valid today but others have evolved and been replaced by other concerns. The EU thus needs to create new carrots to keep countries happy. Instead EU politics have become increasingly divisive and vindictive.
Right, that's what they came for. Trade, prosperity, peace. Instead they got green deal morons like von der leyen and timmermans running the show who will make everyone poorer and potentially bring back war.
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Old 16.07.2021, 12:17
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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I dream(ed) of an Europe united and stronger. Something like the welfare of Sweden in the 60s, with the weather of the Espain during Franco. What we got is the Franco welfare, the Franco wealth distribution and social elevator (being stuck, moving in horizontal), with Sweden weather of the 60s (the wettest decades).

And of course, when there is extreme umbalance in wealth, there is extreme violence (correlation does not imply causation and blabla ... how come that in Switzerland there are more weapons than in the US, but less shootings, even in relative terms?) and space for all kind of organized crime to grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...after-shooting

Since Mark Rutte is a proponent of autonomy in fiscal policies, I expect him to learn to look after itself.
Holland is becoming a failed state rapidly, with a government that cannot handle crime, a tax department that commits extortion, failing Covid policies, a prime minister that lies all the time. Really a shame to see my country going down the drain.
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Old 16.07.2021, 12:23
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Re: Where is EU headed?

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Right, that's what they came for. Trade, prosperity, peace. Instead they got green deal morons like von der leyen and timmermans running the show who will make everyone poorer and potentially bring back war.
However sh*t*% EU, it still works as a tool to avoid Thucydides's Trap, and I just hope that it will be able to evolve into something more democratic. But in a world where predominant powers are Anglo-Saxon globalist-liberal oligarchy and China's One-party capitalism empowering people to express their will is not a primary goal for most.



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Old 16.07.2021, 12:25
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Re: Where is EU headed?

Discipline has failed - no one expected the Southerners to keep discipline - but with the advent of Merkel discipline also failed in the North :
  • Greek crisis and failure to hold them to account for fraud on entering Euro
  • Migrant crisis - failure to uphold Dublin regulations
  • Creation of mutualised debt across the EU
  • Politicisation of ECB
  • Installation of failed crony scandal ridden politicians in most powerful institutions - von der Leyen & Lagarde
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