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  #41  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:49
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Legal
On paper, you are the child of the parents who raised you. No-one, besides you, seems to be questioning this. That means you are - legally - their child. As such,
  • You are entitled to the citizenship relating to that birth.
  • If they have any other children, then you are, legally, their sibling.
  • If your parents die and leave an inheritance, you, as their child (since that's the current, legal position) would be eligible (according to the laws of the country in which they live and die, including any Last Will that they leave) to inherit from them.
  #42  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:50
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Scientific
As Swisspea and Tox Rat pointed out, there are some errors in your science with regard to blood groups, etc., so you have drawn some conclusions which are not accurate.

The least work of all is likely to be if you could get a DNA test of yourself and both your parents (those written on your birth certificate). If I've understood you correctly, they seem to be saying that they are your biological parents, so it is possible that they are lying, but it is also possible that - no matter what your uncle told you - they are, indeed, your biological parents.

Some countries have very strict laws about testing DNA only with the person's permission, and you'd need to find out what the laws are in your country. If you are very fortunate, you might persuade your parents to do a DNA test, too, or at least one of them. That would bring some clarity.

If - contrary to what you expect - a DNA test showed that your mother-on-paper is, indeed, your biological mother, and/or your father-on-paper is, indeed, your biological father, then that would settle a whole lot. On the other hand, if they are not, then at least you'd know that it is worth doing further research. And: they might then be willing to tell you the true story, as far as they know it.
  #43  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:51
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Financial
You are aged 45, so there is no obligation on your family to provide any funds, to you, for this project. You wrote that you are unemployed. If you still do have a roof over your head and food to eat, this means that someone else is providing those for you: perhaps your country has social benefits, or perhaps you have a spouse who is supporting you, or friends, or family (perhaps the ones who raised you, or their relations).

For you to raise any money to put towards this project, you will either have to
Earn it yourself
Persuade someone you know, privately, to fund it. This might be possible if you could supply them with some kind of services, in exchange, of any of the kinds of work you know how to do.

I do not think that anyone is likely to help you in this, for free, unless you have a friend who believes you, or perhaps, as NotAllThere suggested, you succeed in getting a journalist interested in this.

On the other hand, if you could find a detective agency or lawyer who would take on this case, it would be for a fee. You could keep your costs low by getting your documents in order, and being very, very structured in your story (more so than your posts are, on this forum). Here, on this other thread, about a completely different story from yours, there are some posts about how to collect and organise documents, to keep lawyers' fees low.
https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...t-anymore.html

In addition, being sure of the science of genetics will probably save you money, too. Perhaps you can learn about that, online.
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  #44  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:52
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Research
Any research about this matter will involve a lot of detective work.

Many, many people research their backgrounds. It is hard work and time-consuming. It can include such matters
  • speaking to the oldest people still alive who might have known about the circumstances of your birth,
  • visiting the place which issued the birth certificate to see if there are archives, or if anyone there can remember anything about, then
  • trying to gather any letter or diaries that anyone may have kept, and comparing them, and following up on any names mentioned
  • going to places that might have records (the place which issued the birth certificate, hospitals, government departments, churches, schools, adoption agencies, charitable organisations working with children, etc.) and asking to be allowed to search through their archives, or whether anyone remembers anything about the circumstances
  • drawing a family tree to see whether there are other branches of the family whom you have not yet interviewd
  • reading online,
  • perhaps, as NotAllThere suggested, getting your own DNA tested to see whether you find anyone online who is related to you.
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  #45  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:52
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Citizenship
Even if you could find out who your biological parents are, and even if you can obtain definite proof that either or both of them is/are Swiss, it is unlikely that you will be able to claim Swiss citizenship. This link explains some of it:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...html#-77586648

If you obtain conclusive proof that either parent was Austrian, or Italian, you'd need, of course, to look up the laws of those countries, to see whether you'd be able to claim that citizenship.
  #46  
Old 07.09.2021, 12:53
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Mental Health
Whether or not all that you are saying is true, (and we don't know that, even you don't know all the facts) you're clearly under a lot of stress and suffering emotional pain. Therefore, I agree with others who have said that it might help you to speak to a psychologist or counsellor, someone who will really listen to you and try to help you set priorities.

You say that you don't get enough sleep, so you're probably very tired and nervous, and perhaps that's a place to start to try to fix things. If you can find a way to get your basic level of health sorted, then you'd have more energy to use for the long journey of the research.
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  #47  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:01
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Whoever is giving this poster negative rep and groans, despite them clearly having a really difficult time right now, should really focus their time and energy on other things pertaining to adulting. Just ignore threads and posters you don't gel with. It's really unnecessary to add fuel to such a delicate situation.
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  #48  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:11
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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Legal
On paper, you are the child of the parents who raised you. No-one, besides you, seems to be questioning this. That means you are - legally - their child. As such,
  • You are entitled to the citizenship relating to that birth.
  • If they have any other children, then you are, legally, their sibling.
  • If your parents die and leave an inheritance, you, as their child (since that's the current, legal position) would be eligible (according to the laws of the country in which they live and die, including any Last Will that they leave) to inherit from them.


Legally are you saying to me that kidnapped infants /either adopted or not/ are under "ownership" of people who were so clever to hide foreign infant with one birht certificate...if I claim that woman on my birth certificate is not my mother - where is then her child ???


Seem to me that people hard to understand that these people become my parents by unlawful means...one group of people commit a crime, the other group not even near crime - get married and got a baby and got a birth certificate without any legal procedure of adoption or any legal document or approval… so what if one day shows up a woman/man claiming that my birth certificate mother is actually her/his mother ??? Besides that if I claim this mother is not my biological - what happened to her infant baby...
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  #49  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:19
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Financially - I think it is not fair to kindnapp infant and took my right of inheritance a property after my father… other people steal something that wouldn't gone to them if they didn't kidnap me and while others used Tito's inheritance mass which was at that time huge - estimated 50-60 mil $ were stolen… ? And yes, of course I AM A SOCIAL CASE...How could I not be ?
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  #50  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:22
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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Legally are you saying to me that kidnapped infants /either adopted or not/ are under "ownership" of people who were so clever to hide foreign infant with one birht certificate...if I claim that woman on my birth certificate is not my mother - where is then her child ???


Seem to me that people hard to understand that these people become my parents by unlawful means...one group of people commit a crime, the other group not even near crime - get married and got a baby and got a birth certificate without any legal procedure of adoption or any legal document or approval… so what if one day shows up a woman/man claiming that my birth certificate mother is actually her/his mother ??? Besides that if I claim this mother is not my biological - what happened to her infant baby...
You're an adult, you are not owned by anybody.

If you have definitive proof that you are not your mothers child then stop for a second and think.
Is it likely somebody in the hospital made a mistake and took the wrong baby home?
Is it possible there was a childhood pregnancy somewhere that has been hidden "in the family" through a few lies to prevent 2 peoples lives being ruined?

There are too many what if's to even start helping you. You'll need a paternity test.
Further than that, a MyHeritage or 23 and me type test can give you an indication if you've family around the world or if you've any other close relatives who've done the test. Note that for the mixing pot that is Croatia throughout the centuries nothing is going to be marked 50% Italian 50% Croat.
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  #51  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:39
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Now… besides wondering around the bush, and investigating what might happened… people did that long before me...and if they hide something that other group kidnapped from another territory they probably know who were they keeping … I claim TITO and Sofija...and my question is do a police in Switzerland investigate when a person send them a life story with some evidence...how could I contact Sofija when I do not know where she is …


Suppose that Sofija's infant was really kidnapped long time ago, and she lives in Geneva, which police email or address could I turn to ? Are you going to tell me - oh they kidnapped you, robbed you and everything else - but NO you are not a daughter of Sofija because we know this things better it is not published that she even give birth to a baby girl - SO IS THERE ANY POLICE STATION WHICH I COULD WRITTE IN SWITZERLAND AND RECIEVE A REPLAY...
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  #52  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:44
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Honestly, no. If you write the way you've written out your details here to the police, they'd recommend you forward your enquiries to
Krisenintervention KIZ, Militärstrasse 8, 8021 Zürich
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  #53  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:48
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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Legally are you saying to me that kidnapped infants /either adopted or not/ are under "ownership" of people who were so clever to hide foreign infant with one birht certificate...if I claim that woman on my birth certificate is not my mother - where is then her child ???


Seem to me that people hard to understand that these people become my parents by unlawful means...one group of people commit a crime, the other group not even near crime - get married and got a baby and got a birth certificate without any legal procedure of adoption or any legal document or approval… so what if one day shows up a woman/man claiming that my birth certificate mother is actually her/his mother ??? Besides that if I claim this mother is not my biological - what happened to her infant baby...
I was not commenting on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of what might have been done, in the past.

I was merely describing the situation as it stands, now. Until you can prove anything differently, the fact which is taken as your current legal status (meaning, what is documented and now provable by the currently available birth certificate), is that you are the child of these parents.

However, as others have said, you're an adult now, so you are no longer under their "ownership".
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  #54  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:50
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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Financially - I think it is not fair to kindnapp infant and took my right of inheritance a property after my father… other people steal something that wouldn't gone to them if they didn't kidnap me and while others used Tito's inheritance mass which was at that time huge - estimated 50-60 mil $ were stolen… ? And yes, of course I AM A SOCIAL CASE...How could I not be ?
Here, too, I was not commenting on what is "fair" or "unfair", but trying to set out the current situation, and what might help, as a first starting point, to improve the situation.

Whether or not you would be ever able to inherit from anyone else (besides your mother-on-paper and not your father-on-paper), will depend on
  • specific proof that you can gather that you are their child, and on
  • the laws of the country or countries involved, in which those people lived and died
  • their personal Last Will
  • possibly how long ago they died and whether their estate has already been distributed.
  #55  
Old 07.09.2021, 13:58
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

Not sure what you smoking, but it's certainly excellent quality
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  #56  
Old 07.09.2021, 14:00
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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Now… besides wondering around the bush, and investigating what might happened… people did that long before me...and if they hide something that other group kidnapped from another territory they probably know who were they keeping … I claim TITO and Sofija...and my question is do a police in Switzerland investigate when a person send them a life story with some evidence...how could I contact Sofija when I do not know where she is …


Suppose that Sofija's infant was really kidnapped long time ago, and she lives in Geneva, which police email or address could I turn to ? Are you going to tell me - oh they kidnapped you, robbed you and everything else - but NO you are not a daughter of Sofija because we know this things better it is not published that she even give birth to a baby girl - SO IS THERE ANY POLICE STATION WHICH I COULD WRITTE IN SWITZERLAND AND RECIEVE A REPLAY...
I do not believe that there is any police station or authority in Switzerland which would take up your case and investigate it for you.

I do not think that, if you wrote to a police station in Switzerland, they would reply to you at all or, if they did, then they would most likely say: "sorry, we can't help you". The reason for this is that you have quite a lot of suppositions and assumptions, and some rumours, but no or very little documentation to support your claims. And they won't do the work for you.

Your posts on this forum approach your story from many different angles, and you address many different aspects all at once. The reason I set out the points above was to try to help you to structure things.

However, if ever you get as far as researching this, with your own effort, time and money, and if you can then structure the facts, facts, facts, and prove these with documentation, then, perhaps, you might be able to engage a Swiss authority (but I don't know).
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  #57  
Old 07.09.2021, 14:21
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

If you were legitimately adopted, and your adoptive parents are not willing or able to admit that you were adopted, then there is nothing wrong or illegal with your birth certificate. It is common procedure in many countries to simply go through the administrative process to get a new birth certificate with new names on it.


There are so many 'holes' in your story...assumptions and incorrect beliefs about blood type, genetics etc, that I think you are not for real...


Actually I helped my cousin track down her birth parents...and also trained with people who do this work in Australia.... so I'm not wasting your time with my comments or suggestions - just pointing out that the 'facts' may be even more difficult to cope with than your fantasy about being the stolen baby of some famous illicit affair. I can tell you from experience, the possiblities you imagine in your head are less confronting than the more likely scenario:


a) you hate your parents, but you are not adopted.
b) your birth parents were a situation of rape or child pregnancy or some variation of that
c) your birth parent was forced to give you away because they were not married, or extremely poor, mixed race or religion, or all of the above.

d) your birth parent abandoned you at birth because of your medical problems or potential disability, or were told that you would probabiy die...


edited to add - I know people who fit all these options, in real life.
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Old 07.09.2021, 14:24
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

I wrote to several police stations, very long letter, you do not have to be smart when you see (evidence or half-evidence presented in a letter) that something went wrong long time ago...as I said I wrote to police office in Swiss...but I recieved no replay - I asked to confirm that they recieved and read my letter… I do not know did they even recieve my letters/messages...so I do not now did they even got it … I could suspect my email connection is not working properly … or maybe police officers do not speak English...??


But this what happened to me is a crime committed against child/infant long time ago … the difficulty here is that both parents seems to me were public persons … if any other person was mentioned to be my mother I probably would find her much easier than Sofija - and I do not even know what happened to her...
  #59  
Old 07.09.2021, 14:25
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

These articles are interesting. Somebody said that best would be to try to attract attention from press.

I see that the original author of that study "KINDER DER LANDSTRASSE" about Swiss Gypsies had the name "Hans Caprez". I see that at the white pages there are a couple of people with that name in Switzerland:
https://www.local.ch/en/tel

, and the gentleman was born in the 40's, therefore he might still be alive: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Caprez

Original Poster: just as an idea, but you might wish to try to reach this journalist, or the Beobachter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beobachter_(magazine)
, where he published his work, to see if they can offer you at least an investigation line for your case?

I am sorry to hear about your situation, and hope that you can solve the doubts about your origin.


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This sounds like a wild story but here are the real-life options:


It's perfectly common across the world for families to marry close relatives - 'incest' is not necessarily the situation - it's perfectly legal to marry your first cousin in many cultures and religions. If you say you are from 'gypsy' heritage then you are even more likely to have family who are inter-married through many genarations as they favour marrying people from the same ethnic and religious background. Quite likely your parents are first cousins or closely related - so what ? - maybe your parents don't want it to be publicly known that they are closely related... but it's very common across the world and nothing to be ashamed of and it's definitely not something illegal - it's highly unlikely your parents were siblings - or unmarriedl - but if they were, then very likely that would be hidden and you maybe were handed to another family member to be raised...



As for your 'abdominal injury' - it would be very easy to speak to a paediatrician and show the photos and get a perfectly good medical reason, or not. There are many reasons why you might have an injury - difficult birth, medical intervention, or a pre-birth condition. Did you have surgery ? Without seeing the photo, I'm not going to go further with explanations, but there are so many possiblities...



And the blood type stuff is not a big deal, and without an actual DNA test the blood type alone is not enough to prove or disprove who your parents are. Although there is a simplified system for blood typing and RH factor (the + and _) there are a lot more genes involved. Same with eye colour... your parents actually carry two genes for blood type - AO, BO, AB, OO, - so from what I just read online, it's absolutely possible for a child with O and AB parents to be A type. A and B are dominant - O is recessive. If your father was OO and your mother AB and you are A then you are probably AO. Same with positive/negative - both parents are +- then you got both the --.


They teach this simplifed 'eye colour' idea too at school. but it's wrong - there are many many genes involved in eye colour and there are also medical conditions that can change eye colour regardless of parent's eye colour - so don't assume it's just a really simple thing... and it's definitely not evidence.


It's also perfectly normal to not be born in a hospital....and again, not evidence of anything ... hospital treatment was not 'free' and not necessarily better than having a child at home...same with medical interventions - maybe they were just too poor or not entitled to access the health system...



Birth certificates maybe changed if the child was born before the parents were married - also, it may not be that the birth was registered until later. This is very very very common - if parents are unmarried - avoid registration until after the parents are married, and then adapt the birth date to avoid any further questions. I would be very curious to see if your parents were married very close to your birth date! Again, very common....



If you think you were 'adopted' then I would highly recommend you speak to an adoption counsellor or support service. A lawyer is not really where to begin - start with someone who knows the adoption system in your country (Croatia?) and who helps people to find their birth parents. They will tell you exactly what laws cover your situation, what evidence you can gather and how to get answers.


That said, it's possible that the road to finding any answers will be very difficult, with many ups and downs...


Do you have any siblings, aunties, uncles or grandparents who support you ?
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Old 07.09.2021, 14:27
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Re: Any right to get a free lawyer in Switzerland ?

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But this what happened to me is a crime committed against child/infant long time ago … the difficulty here is that both parents seems to me were public persons … if any other person was mentioned to be my mother I probably would find her much easier than Sofija - and I do not even know what happened to her...
It happened a long time ago, but in which country? The police here are not going to investigate forged birth certificates in Croatia.
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