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  #621  
Old 19.08.2022, 09:29
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I don't have the numbers to hand, but something like 83 candidates for the Rs this fall are at the state level and involve offices that deal with elections. It's entirely possible that if elected, these people will continue to believe his narrative and do what they can to ensure he wins. Even state legislatures were trying to come up with ways they could choose presidential electors if they didn't like who the voters chose.
Yet another case of reap what you sow in US politics. After spending a fortune to upend the entire voting system to favor the Dems in 2020 through legally expanding postal voting and ballot collection all in the name of Covid, is it any wonder that this is the outcome?

See also denouncing US institutions, not accepting election results, abuse of legal system to achieve political goals etc.
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  #622  
Old 19.08.2022, 10:52
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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This is not Russia.
LOL, no it isn't. Russia invents charges to throw any political detractors into jail, while his crimes were brazenly committed in broad daylight.

A fair democracy, which is what America claims to be, should have imprisoned Trump months ago.
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  #623  
Old 19.08.2022, 10:55
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Yet another case of reap what you sow in US politics. After spending a fortune to upend the entire voting system to favor the Dems in 2020 through legally expanding postal voting and ballot collection all in the name of Covid, is it any wonder that this is the outcome?
Great, you are on course to declaring that Biden did not legitimately win. Way to go.
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  #624  
Old 19.08.2022, 11:22
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Great, you are on course to declaring that Biden did not legitimately win. Way to go.
He won according to voting laws in place at the time. The win was legitimate but the rules in my opinion were not and open to abuse. It was entirely the Republican's fault for allowing this to happen btw. Having gone down this path, it's a bit rich to complain when the Republicans play the same game.

FWIW I believe President Trump should have accepted the result of the election even if he thought it was stolen. Losers consent is a key pillar of democracy and it appears to have gone missing in the US since 2016.

Let's remind ourselves again who started up with the declarations that elections had not been legitimately won

Again, reap what you sow!



Source:

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/st...22009048494080
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  #625  
Old 19.08.2022, 11:54
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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....Again, reap what you sow! ....
Which was about Russian interference in the election and not the electoral system.

FWIW I would agree the US electoral system is completely broken but I suspect for different reasons to you.
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  #626  
Old 19.08.2022, 11:58
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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He won according to voting laws in place at the time. The win was legitimate but the rules in my opinion were not and open to abuse. It was entirely the Republican's fault for allowing this to happen btw. Having gone down this path, it's a bit rich to complain when the Republicans play the same game.

FWIW I believe President Trump should have accepted the result of the election even if he thought it was stolen. Losers consent is a key pillar of democracy and it appears to have gone missing in the US since 2016.

Let's remind ourselves again who started up with the declarations that elections had not been legitimately won

Again, reap what you sow!

Source:

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/st...22009048494080
I agree that Democrats have made unhelpful statements and questioned the 2016 election, mainly because of the Russian interventions - which took undoubtedly place yet it is impossible to know that they changed the outcome.

Trump was legitimately elected. Clinton conceded and in Jan 2017 a normal and peaceful transition of power took place. So please stop relativising Trumps attempt to stay in power.
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  #627  
Old 19.08.2022, 11:58
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Which was about Russian interference in the election and not the electoral system.
Trump collusion in Russian interference and hacked Dominion voting machines belong in the same category of crazy conspiracy theories. People who can't see this are part of the problem!
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Old 19.08.2022, 12:07
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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He won according to voting laws in place at the time. The win was legitimate but the rules in my opinion were not and open to abuse. It was entirely the Republican's fault for allowing this to happen btw. Having gone down this path, it's a bit rich to complain when the Republicans play the same game.

FWIW I believe President Trump should have accepted the result of the election even if he thought it was stolen. Losers consent is a key pillar of democracy and it appears to have gone missing in the US since 2016.

Let's remind ourselves again who started up with the declarations that elections had not been legitimately won

Again, reap what you sow!



Source:

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/st...22009048494080
Spreading more fact-free nonsense, you should be ashamed.

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Nov 9, 2016 Hillary Clinton formally and publicly conceded to Donald Trump this morning after an upset defeat in the presidential election.

"Last night I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans," she said this morning.
Hillary rang Trump and conceded at 2.35 in the morning following the vote count.
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  #629  
Old 19.08.2022, 12:12
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Trump was legitimately elected. Clinton conceded and in Jan 2017 a normal and peaceful transition of power took place. So please stop relativising Trumps attempt to stay in power.
Conceding and then reversing your position by spending the next four years spreading a hoax to justify that loss is NOT losers consent. Again, anyone who can't see that this is where the rot set in is part of the problem.
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  #630  
Old 19.08.2022, 12:19
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Conceding and then reversing your position by spending the next four years spreading a hoax to justify that loss is NOT losers consent. Again, anyone who can't see that this is where the rot set in is part of the problem.
More fact-free nonsense.

Every US intelligence agency confirmed Russian interference, the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee confirmed this.

No Hoax: Bipartisan Probe Says US Intelligence Made Right Call on Russian Election Meddling.
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  #631  
Old 19.08.2022, 12:23
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Conceding and then reversing your position by spending the next four years spreading a hoax to justify that loss is NOT losers consent. Again, anyone who can't see that this is where the rot set in is part of the problem.
"I just want to find 11,780 votes,” Raffensperger said Trump told him during a phone call. “I need 11,000 votes, give me a break.”
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  #632  
Old 19.08.2022, 12:34
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Trump collusion in Russian interference and hacked Dominion voting machines belong in the same category of crazy conspiracy theories. People who can't see this are part of the problem!
While Trump was Prez and R.S. Mueller a Republican...

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Exposing Russia’s Effort to Sow Discord Online: The Internet Research Agency and Advertisements

On February 16, 2018 Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III indicted 13 Russian individuals and three Russian organizations for engaging in operations to interfere with U.S. political and electoral processes, including the 2016 presidential election. This was a significant step forward in exposing a surreptitious social media campaign and holding accountable those responsible for this attack. The indictment spells out in exhaustive detail the breadth and systematic nature of this conspiracy, dating back to 2014, as well as the multiple ways in which Russian actors misused online platforms to carry out their clandestine operations.

Throughout the indictment, Mueller lays out important facts about the activities of the Internet Research Agency (IRA)—the notorious Russian “troll” farm—and its operatives:

“Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and creating false U.S. personas, operated social media pages and groups designed to attract U.S. audiences. These groups and pages, which addressed divisive U.S. political and social issues, falsely claimed to be controlled by U.S. activists when, in fact, they were controlled by Defendants. Defendants also used the stolen identities of real U.S. persons to post on ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Over time, these social media accounts became Defendants’ means to reach significant numbers of Americans for purposes of interfering with the U.S. political system, including the presidential election of 2016.”
https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/

TC, what stuff are you reading that Dems and Reps are equally discredited?
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  #633  
Old 19.08.2022, 14:01
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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While Trump was Prez and R.S. Mueller a Republican...

TC, what stuff are you reading that Dems and Reps are equally discredited?
I don't know what's so hard for people to understand. This isn't about whether or not Russia attempted to influence the election. We know this to be the case, but then again, the US hasn't been so innocent in influencing regime change, either directly or indirectly. See Dick Cheney and co. for the most egregious examples.

What this is about is willfully spreading the LIE that President Trump colluded with Russians to influence the 2016 election without a scintilla of evidence.

Any fair minded assessment of the current situation would consider that the Democrats and Republicans are as bad as each other. I would argue though that it was the Democrats that started the country down this path.
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  #634  
Old 19.08.2022, 15:46
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I don't know what's so hard for people to understand. This isn't about whether or not Russia attempted to influence the election. We know this to be the case...
Glad you've finally acknowledged this as it is the point everyone else was trying to make over the last posts.
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Old 19.08.2022, 16:21
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Which was about Russian interference in the election and not the electoral system.

FWIW I would agree the US electoral system is completely broken but I suspect for different reasons to you.
interference and influencing are different things

At worst they tried to interfere (although its questionable). They didn‘t alter the election
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  #636  
Old 19.08.2022, 16:29
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Impeachment is not linked to criminal law and it is not a prosecution as such.

Impeachment is the Senate's quasi-criminal proceeding instituted to remove a public officer.

A Former President May Be Indicted and Tried for the Same Offenses for Which He Was Impeached by the House and Acquitted by the Senate
That's just your usual sophistry to avoid the problem.

The same applies to your reply WRT the electors. The current process is necessitated exactly because they're not bound to the public vote. With regulations that make sense this part of Trump's attempt to steal the vote wouldn't have been possible in the first place.

It's almost as if you support the attempt. But then again, maybe you're just mansplaining.
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That's an excellent characterisation of the BLM riots.

Where are your calls for terrorism charges here?
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  #637  
Old 19.08.2022, 16:42
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

Some Democrats wrongly questioned the legitimacy of Trump's election. BLM rioters belong in jail. Trump is a criminal for attempting to steal the 2020 election.

Why can't all these three things be true?
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  #638  
Old 19.08.2022, 16:53
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

Where do I say they aren't? Provided you don't mean criminal in the strict sense (just like e.g. corruption has a legal and a moral/ethical meaning).

Otherwise Trump needs to have broken criminal law, which is among other issues part of the problem with abusing the electors situation - if it wasn't illegal it can't have been criminal. And I'm not trying to pull a marton here, just clarifying what I mean.
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Old 19.08.2022, 18:01
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Have you read the article you posted? The headline literally is "Why DOJ is avoiding domestic terrorism sentences (sic) for Jan. 6 defendants".

Here a different view that rather sees charges of consipracy to defraud the US and/or obstruction of official proceedings as possible charges:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/wha...on-2022-07-22/
Yes, I read the article. But I posted the link to it as a reference to my comment about many of the prosecutors and judges involved considering it domestic terrorism. Even FBI Director Christopher Wray referred to it as domestic terrorism:

“That siege was criminal behavior, plain and simple. It’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism. It’s got no place in our democracy and tolerating it would make a mockery of our nation’s rule of law,” FBI Director Christopher Wray said in his opening statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee."

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_fbi-ch...m/6202754.html

So my point is that, even though Trump, etc. aren't being charged with domestic terrorism, it is still being considered domestic terrorism.
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  #640  
Old 19.08.2022, 18:49
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

Very interesting podcast on the rise of Qanon, its commonalities with and differences to traditional conspiracy theories, and of course the industry that developed around it.

"Host Reed Galen is joined by author, journalist, and QAnon expert Mike Rothschild to discuss how the QAnon conspiracy theory grew to be in the forefront of American political discourse, why it resonated so fervently with such a large percentage of the population, and how it continues to infect our nation’s culture today."


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4qG...urce=copy-link
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