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  #781  
Old 05.09.2022, 13:31
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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You keep trying to portray my position as victimisation. That's not what I say.
You can misrepresent as much as you want, just don't expect me to remain in the conversation.
Fine, current energy crisis in Europe is Trump's fault. After, that's what we do in this thread. Hey, just watch how wrong was Trump

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  #782  
Old 05.09.2022, 14:29
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Just lol at this regurgitation of Trumpian-esque nonsense, I mean do you actually believe the things you write? Somehow I really doubt it.
I realize the not-so-subtle point is completely lost on you, but it has never been acceptable in democratic politics to attack and demean voters. Political opponents is one thing, the voters of your opponent though? Never! Especially after preaching about unity and bringing America together. Even the allies after World War 2 placed the blame squarely on the Nazi leaders and allowed the rest of the country move on.
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  #783  
Old 05.09.2022, 16:02
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Even the allies after World War 2 placed the blame squarely on the Nazi leaders and allowed the rest of the country move on.
That doesn't diminish their responsibility or negate the fact that many, many Germans supported the Nazis and the killing of Jews and helped Hitler and the Nazis remain in power.

With Trump, the fact is, his supporters encourage his bullshit and eat it up like candy (e.g. via his rallies, etc.) -- even going as far as to deny the results of an election and violently attack the Capitol because of it. And you can try to downplay the violence of that day all you want, but there are many, many Capitol police officers who were there and experienced it directly and who don't downplay it simply because it conveniences their delusions.
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  #784  
Old 05.09.2022, 16:54
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Even the allies after World War 2 placed the blame squarely on the Nazi leaders and allowed the rest of the country move on.
This is a totally laughable analogy.
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  #785  
Old 05.09.2022, 17:01
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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This is a totally laughable analogy.
Care to name a functioning democracy where the leader has taken steps to attack and blame voters of the opposition party as being dangerous?
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  #786  
Old 05.09.2022, 17:14
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Care to name a functioning democracy where the leader has taken steps to attack and blame voters of the opposition party as being dangerous?
Care to read his speech.

Also plenty of examples where elected leaders have called out voters of extreme parties for being a threat the democracy and the liberal order. Probably every German chancellor of the last 40 years has done this.
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  #787  
Old 05.09.2022, 17:31
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Care to read his speech.

Also plenty of examples where elected leaders have called out voters of extreme parties for being a threat the democracy and the liberal order. Probably every German chancellor of the last 40 years has done this.
Yes, parties, not voters.

I've watched the speech, I've read the speech and it was terrible. Which is why the President is now quickly trying to row back on what he actually said. Assuming he can remember of course.
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  #788  
Old 05.09.2022, 18:00
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Care to read his speech.

Also plenty of examples where elected leaders have called out voters of extreme parties for being a threat the democracy and the liberal order. Probably every German chancellor of the last 40 years has done this.
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Yes, parties, not voters.

I've watched the speech, I've read the speech and it was terrible. Which is why the President is now quickly trying to row back on what he actually said. Assuming he can remember of course.
As you could not comprehend my two-line post, I can only imagine what you understood of the Biden transcript At least you refer to Biden as the President - which is more than what most MAGA Republicans would agree to.
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  #789  
Old 05.09.2022, 18:08
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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As you could not comprehend my two-line post, I can only imagine what you understood of the Biden transcript At least you refer to Biden as the President - which is more than what most MAGA Republicans would agree to.
I misread, but still, even in Germany, it's not the voters who get the blame. When the AFD (which is still a minority party and not the main opposition as is the case in the US), emerged with a few seats in 2017, Angela Merkel said she would listen to the "concerns, worries and anxieties" of their voters in order to win them back. No one EVER blamed them!
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  #790  
Old 05.09.2022, 19:59
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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As you could not comprehend my two-line post, I can only imagine what you understood of the Biden transcript At least you refer to Biden as the President - which is more than what most MAGA Republicans would agree to.
Which is more or less the same as Democrats thought of Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/
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  #791  
Old 05.09.2022, 20:43
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Which is more or less the same as Democrats thought of Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/
Yes. I remember how Clinton and Obama jointly called the governors and asked for finding her some votes. I also remember how Obama wanted to send the military to confiscate voting machines and made a plan with a lawyer paid by George Soros in order to decertify electors. They filed some 60 lawsuits to challenge Trump's win, but got nowhere. They then arranged for a march on the Capitol in early January 2017 which went a bit wild - but Clinton only watched it from TV and Obama was already golfing.
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  #792  
Old 05.09.2022, 20:49
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Yes. I remember how Clinton and Obama jointly called the governors and asked for finding her some votes. I also remember how Obama wanted to send the military to confiscate voting machines and made a plan with a lawyer paid by George Soros in order to decertify electors. They filed some 60 lawsuits to challenge Trump's win, but got nowhere. They then arranged for a march on the Capitol in early January 2017 which went a bit wild - but Clinton only watched it from TV and Obama was already golfing.
Clap Clap….for the straw man argument. Your point was about Trump supporters, and mine was about Clinton supporters. Apples to Apples.

Nice try though
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  #793  
Old 05.09.2022, 21:26
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Clap Clap….for the straw man argument. Your point was about Trump supporters, and mine was about Clinton supporters. Apples to Apples.

Nice try though
I think the discussion about legitimacy of the Trump election had to do mostly with the popular vote. Which I can somewhat understand - but hey, this is how the system works. There was not the slightest doubt about an orderly transition of power though.

So to me, one of the two apples looks considerably maggoty than the other.
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  #794  
Old 05.09.2022, 21:54
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Which is more or less the same as Democrats thought of Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/
TBF one could put up a 10 minute video of Dem leaders and politicians denouncing the legitimacy of the 2016 election result and it still wouldn't sway the mind of the Never Trumper.

In their mind there is no action that is too far a step as long as it keeps Donald Trump out of the White House. The big issue with this is that these steps are taken with absolutely zero appreciation for the long term consequences. What's probably worse is that they appear to have a complete lack of awareness that any tool that they create can then also be used against them. And this is results in a ratchet effect whereby there's this continuous escalation.

Denounce the result of an election, act surprised when the same thing happens four years later. Mess around with voting laws in order to stack the deck in your favor, cry foul when your opponents start doing the same thing. Erode trust in institutions, weaponize the justice system to go after your opponents, lean on social media companies to do your bidding etc.

That's what makes the speech from President Biden so odious, if you normalize attacks on normal working Americans due to their political beliefs, it doesn't take a genius to work out where that path leads!
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  #795  
Old 05.09.2022, 22:22
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Which is more or less the same as Democrats thought of Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/
All the polls around the 2016 election were wrong and here you are quoting another one
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  #796  
Old 05.09.2022, 23:55
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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How Hitler would you like your speech?

Biden: Yes.
Quite the opposite, actually, he was totally against political violence and extremism. You must have watched a different movie...

Please quote at least one thing that is vaguely similar to Hitler's discourses.
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Old 06.09.2022, 10:16
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Care to name a functioning democracy where the leader has taken steps to attack and blame voters of the opposition party as being dangerous?
Care to name a functioning democracy where a sitting President denied the results of an election because his inflated ego wouldn't allow him to accept reality, then convinced his supporters that they were 'cheated' and then encouraged them to violently attack a government building full of politicians because of it, in an attempt to try to reverse the results of an election?
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Old 06.09.2022, 10:25
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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That's what makes the speech from President Biden so odious, if you normalize attacks on normal working Americans due to their political beliefs, it doesn't take a genius to work out where that path leads!
He "attacked" the MAGA members of the Republican Party for clapping along and submitting to Trump's madness about losing the last elections.

The "normal working Americans" is an invention.
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Old 06.09.2022, 10:30
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Care to name a functioning democracy where a sitting President denied the results of an election because his inflated ego wouldn't allow him to accept reality, then convinced his supporters that they were 'cheated' and then encouraged them to violently attack a government building full of politicians because of it, in an attempt to try to reverse the results of an election?
Do you think this is justification for President Biden's speech? Or are you just playing whataboutery?

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He "attacked" the MAGA members of the Republican Party.
So basically every Republican voter who isn't part of The Lincoln Project
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Old 06.09.2022, 17:31
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Do you think this is justification for President Biden's speech? Or are you just playing whataboutery?



So basically every Republican voter who isn't part of The Lincoln Project
Yes, I do think it's justification.

Do you just accuse people of "whataboutery" any time you don't want to address a question?

The fact is, this isn't just a matter of "normal voters." This is a matter of a delusional man who refused to admit that he lost an election and encouraged his supporters to try to help him prevent the certification of the election by attacking the Capitol building. This is about a large percentage of Americans who believe and have adopted his lies and delusions and refusal to admit that he lost an election.

So you should address THAT rather than just trying to reduce it to "Biden attacking voters" so that you can try to deflect from the real issue by trying to twist it into Biden being the bad guy because that comforts your cognitive biases against Biden. The fact that you don't like what Biden said does not diminish its validity.
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