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TonyClifton · #**1001** 19.09.2022, 15:41

	Quote:	Axa
	I'd bet that if you go live for a while in the US you'll find that the differences are exaggerated and under-reported at the same time. They're exaggerated from the number of people that cares. In daily life anyone is busy with something, even with happiness. The differences are under-reported from the craziness of the minority of people with lots of free time that believes the other side are the enemies. It would be interesting if you go to live to the US for a while and find out if effectively both sides are that far apart. But careful with saying in public half the things you're written in this thread. Both Dems and Reps would unite to crush the foreigner. There are a few things that unite them, don't be that thing.

I've lived in the States, I've got friends and family there still. Whilst I agree it's still a minority of activists on both sides that keep pouring fuel on the fire, I think the majority of people do care enough to make reconciliation almost an impossibility now.

I think it stems from losers consent, this vanished in 2016 and set the US on the current path of self destruction.

vushka · #**1002** 19.09.2022, 15:48

	Quote:	ShirleyNot
	The fact that DeSantis' stunt backfired so widely gives a reasonable barometer for public feeling about it.

had the community welcomed the immigrants into their community and signalled they were ready to take more it would have backfired right in desantis' face.

the fact that the military was called in to remove them within 48 hours is exactly the hypocrisy desantis successfully highlighted.

greenmount · #**1003** 19.09.2022, 15:55

	Quote:	Axa
	It would be interesting if you go to live to the US for a while and find out if effectively both sides are that far apart. But careful with saying in public half the things you're written in this thread. Both Dems and Reps would unite to crush the foreigner. There are a few things that unite them, don't be that thing.

He's/Her/They/Thee are American.

ShirleyNot · #**1004** 19.09.2022, 15:55

	Quote:	vushka
	had the community welcomed the immigrants into their community and signalled they were ready to take more it would have backfired right in desantis' face.

You mean "humouring the idiot" that is DeSantis? Don't you think it would have set an unsustainable precedent? At any time a republican politician can decide to randomly drop any number on an unsuspecting community? Why would they need to do that anyway when there are, as has been demonstrated, official procedures to follow when placing immigrants within the country.

Can't believe you actually fall for the fact it was JUST A STUNT which, presumably, was set up from the very beginning to fail.

	Quote:	vushka
	the fact that the military was called in to remove them within 48 hours is exactly the hypocrisy desantis successfully highlighted.

The military wasn't "called in to remove them". They assisted with the humanitarian effort to clean up DeSantis' stupid, ill-thought out mess. Another way of looking at it is to say the grown ups had to get involved.

vushka · #**1005** 19.09.2022, 16:01

	Quote:	ShirleyNot
	You mean "humouring the idiot" that is DeSantis? Don't you think it would have set an unsustainable precedent?

yes, it may have set an unsustainable precedent. then they may find themselves in an unsustainable situation similar to what many border towns are currently facing. i think that was kinda the point of the stunt.

ShirleyNot · #**1006** 19.09.2022, 16:16

	Quote:	vushka
	yes, it may have set an unsustainable precedent. then they may find themselves in an unsustainable situation similar to what many border towns are currently facing. i think that was kinda the point of the stunt.

Apart from what's being reported in the more reactionary end of the media outlets, there is little evidence of this.

Urs Max · #**1007** 19.09.2022, 17:16

	Quote:	roegner
	Can you please stop impying that anyone who disagrees with you is dumb and ignorant?

Where are your reprimands when groups or posters you disagree with are disparaged or attacked?

greenmount · #**1008** 19.09.2022, 17:33

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Where are your reprimands when groups or posters you disagree with are disparaged or attacked?

Roegner doesn't encourage the trolls. By "groups or posters" you mean exactly those characters...

Urs Max · #**1009** 19.09.2022, 18:09

	Quote:	greenmount
	Roegner doesn't encourage the trolls. By "groups or posters" you mean exactly those characters...

You have no idea what I mean, in fact you're wrong.

That aside, the mods can speak for themselves, individually or collectively.

Pancakes · #**1010** 19.09.2022, 18:28

	Quote:	vushka
	had the community welcomed the immigrants into their community and signalled they were ready to take more it would have backfired right in desantis' face. the fact that the military was called in to remove them within 48 hours is exactly the hypocrisy desantis successfully highlighted.

There are facilities in place all over border areas with the sole purpose of taking in immigrants. These facilities don't exist in Martha's Vineyard -- a small resort area that pretty much closes down come the 1st of September. Are you intentionally not taking that into consideration or just too ignorant to have considered it?

The military came to assist because they were taking them to its base, after many residents on Martha's Vineyard volunteered to help house and feed them. Another fact that you're failing to consider.

But I guess that's what you people do, isn't it? You only consider and accept the facts that comfort your delusions and preexisting narratives.

3Wishes · #**1011** 19.09.2022, 19:55

	Quote:	ShirleyNot
	...The fact that DeSantis' stunt backfired so widely gives a reasonable barometer for public feeling about it.

But backfired according to whom? People who love DeSantis think it was great/successful and should be repeated over and over. They don't care that the military got involved, the point was made. Or something like that.

As best I can tell, the only people who think it backfired are people who disagree with DeSantis. Which shows some people still have morals and heart...but unfortunately they aren't the ones in the DeSantis camp! And even more unfortunately, there are millions in the MAGA camp.

Urs Max · #**1012** 19.09.2022, 20:03

Speaking of delusion, here's an article by the Texas Tribune with what looks like actual info and a far less biased overview than what's spouted by the lying national media.

Interestingly enough, El Paso's mayor is a Democrat. El Paso won't be the only city busing immigrants elsewhere, the problem affects the entire border.

	Quote:
	[OEM is the El Paso City-County Office of Emergency Management. Apparently FEMA will reimburse the entire transport costs, that may well apply to Texas' and Florida's transports, too.] “OEM has sponsored and provided transportation services for migrants out of El Paso, which is reimbursable through [the Federal Emergency Management Agency],” Deputy City Manager Mario D’Agostino said in an email. “OEM has sponsored charter buses to include a recent transport to New York City, this was the preferred destination for those without any means to travel.” [...] On June 21, the Office of Emergency Management chartered a bus to send 50 migrants to Faith Forward, an alliance of Dallas religious leaders, Garcia said. He said faith-based groups are crucial to assisting the growing number of migrants crossing into the United States from Mexico. “If faith communities in the interior of the U.S. would all be willing to receive one charter bus every week or two, there would be no hospitality issue all along the U.S. border with Mexico. We wouldn’t have to blindly send chartered buses to D.C., New York and Miami. In other words, we would not play politics with human lives and instead have a living, breathing Statue of Liberty,” Garcia said. [One of the five buses that arrived in NYC on or around Aug 23 appears to have been organised and financed by OEM. NY(C) authorities say there was no coordination, nor were they informed. The same applies to the transports from Florida and Texas, but apparently only these are bad.]

	Quote:	3Wishes
	As best I can tell, the only people who think it backfired are people who disagree with DeSantis. Which shows some people still have morals and heart...but unfortunately they aren't the ones in the DeSantis camp! And even more unfortunately, there are millions in the MAGA camp.

I guess that verdict will depend on what you think the point was. I think the point was to demonstrate the rich left's NIMBY approach, their double standards, as demonstrated by the immediate removal of the immigrants. MV is rich enough to house them locally, and there's space aplenty after the summer. That doesn't mean MV should do that, but those who are against that have exactly zero reason to fingerpoint at the border states for wanting at least partial relief and for them busing immigrants elsewhere.

vushka · #**1013** 19.09.2022, 20:56

	Quote:	Pancakes
	There are facilities in place all over border areas with the sole purpose of taking in immigrants. These facilities don't exist in Martha's Vineyard -- a small resort area that pretty much closes down come the 1st of September. Are you intentionally not taking that into consideration or just too ignorant to have considered it?

yes and those facilities are made for a certain amount of people and cannot cater for an infinite amount of people. its an unsustainable situation.

marton · #**1014** 19.09.2022, 21:13

	Quote:	3Wishes
	But backfired according to whom? People who love DeSantis think it was great/successful and should be repeated over and over. They don't care that the military got involved, the point was made. Or something like that. As best I can tell, the only people who think it backfired are people who disagree with DeSantis. Which shows some people still have morals and heart...but unfortunately they aren't the ones in the DeSantis camp! And even more unfortunately, there are millions in the MAGA camp.

There are indeed "millions in the MAGA camp" but as Trump proved in 2020 there are not enough of them.

As I posted earlier there was a strong negative reaction from Latinos in Florida. According to the 2020 Census, Latinos are the second-largest racial and ethnic group in Florida at 26% of the population.
Charlie Crist who is DeSantis's opponent in the November governorship election is trying to build on this negative reaction.

For example

	Quote:
	Popular Information has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who agreed to the flights. The brochure says that migrants will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," and "job placement"

	Quote:
	I went on CNN today to say that Ron DeSantis’s latest cruel political stunt was human trafficking. We’re leading the fight to hold him accountable and make sure he’s voted out this November.

	Quote:
	Ron won’t answer questions so we looked ourselves: FL paid Vertol Systems $615,000 on Sept 8th out of the $12m deportation fund. So Floridians paid $12,300 for each refugee DeSantis trafficked for his own political purposes.

TonyClifton · #**1015** 19.09.2022, 21:19

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Where are your reprimands when groups or posters you disagree with are disparaged or attacked?

Indeed, aside from the small matter that the transitive verb "dumb down" is not an insult to imply someone is dumb. Perhaps English isn't a first language so this is at least perhaps justifiable.

My bigger gripe is that issue is taken with me and not with the poster who has had it explained to them on 3 or 4 occasions by two different people why they've misunderstood a post, and yet despite this, still has the temerity to believe they know better the context than the one who actually authored the post

	Quote:	3Wishes
	As best I can tell, the only people who think it backfired are people who disagree with DeSantis.

This is really the point, the fact people want to come out and say how much it backfired demonstrates that it really hasn't. The goal of a political stunt is to push buttons, and I don't think anyone deny that it's raised tensions.

It's actually sad microcosm into the current state of US politics. Both sides arguing about who treats migrants worse, who is trafficking the most etc. whilst the border crisis goes on and is no step closer to being resolved.

ShirleyNot · #**1016** 19.09.2022, 22:11

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Indeed, aside from the small matter that the transitive verb "dumb down" is not an insult to imply someone is dumb. Perhaps English isn't a first language so this is at least perhaps justifiable. My bigger gripe is that issue is taken with me and not with the poster who has had it explained to them on 3 or 4 occasions by two different people why they've misunderstood a post, and yet despite this, still has the temerity to believe they know better the context than the one who actually authored the post This is really the point, the fact people want to come out and say how much it backfired demonstrates that it really hasn't. The goal of a political stunt is to push buttons, and I don't think anyone deny that it's raised tensions. It's actually sad microcosm into the current state of US politics. Both sides arguing about who treats migrants worse, who is trafficking the most etc. whilst the border crisis goes on and is no step closer to being resolved.

I’ve read this post more than once but still can’t figure out the point you are trying to make. On one hand you seem furious that you can’t force people to agree with you but on the other hand you seem to be agreeing that the whole thing was a stunt to push buttons because umm… politics. It seems you’ve actually changed your stance 180 degrees from your earlier posts where you were championing the wild gesture

Pancakes · #**1017** 19.09.2022, 22:22

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	My bigger gripe is that issue is taken with me and not with the poster who has had it explained to them on 3 or 4 occasions by two different people why they've misunderstood a post, and yet despite this, still has the temerity to believe they know better the context than the one who actually authored the post

Tony, I think it's logical for me to assume that this comment is about me.

I do apologize if I had misunderstood you, but as I tried to explain, when I read your repeated expressions of praise for what DeSantis did (calling him savvy, etc.), I could only assume that it meant that you agree with him and condone what he did, especially being that you had never once expressed that you did NOT agree with it. It was a purely logical deduction on my part.

So maybe just to clear things up, can please answer the following:

Do you agree with what DeSantis did?

Do you think it was a good thing?

I ask this because you had denied that you condone it and accused me of being wrong for saying that you did condone it. So in order to clear up any misunderstandings, I guess you'd need to directly say that you do not agree with it.

marton · #**1018** 19.09.2022, 22:57

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Indeed, aside from the small matter that the transitive verb "dumb down" is not an insult to imply someone is dumb.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Little wonder the news has to be dumbed-down so much these days

A transitive verb is a verb that requires a direct object, which is a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase that follows the verb and completes the sentence's meaning by indicating the person or thing that receives the action of the verb.

What has transitive to do with the price of fish?

greenmount · #**1019** 19.09.2022, 23:21

	Quote:	Pancakes
	I do apologize if I had misunderstood you, but as I tried to explain, when I read your repeated expressions of praise for what DeSantis did (calling him savvy, etc.), I could only assume that it meant that you agree with him and condone what he did, especially being that you had never once expressed that you did NOT agree with it. It was a purely logical deduction on my part.

You didn't misunderstand him, he implied you belong to the category that cannot understand news or...posts on EF.

Don't apologise, you're being gaslighted.

Sonnenbrand · #**1020** 20.09.2022, 04:43

60 minutes is a real news network.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1UC89H4Swc

It's not all about Trump ???

20-30% of lower-class and uneducated citizens in America keep voting for Republicans.

Trump will not be re-elected.