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  #1021  
Old 20.09.2022, 10:13
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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The military wasn't "called in to remove them". They assisted with the humanitarian effort to clean up DeSantis' stupid, ill-thought out mess. Another way of looking at it is to say the grown ups had to get involved.
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The military came to assist because they were taking them to its base, after many residents on Martha's Vineyard volunteered to help house and feed them. Another fact that you're failing to consider.
you can spin it anyway you like but ultimately the military was called in to remove 50 immigrants from marthas vineyard.
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  #1022  
Old 20.09.2022, 10:30
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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you can spin it anyway you like but ultimately the military was called in to remove 50 immigrants from marthas vineyard.
Having the state police giving them an escort to the camps would be bad, triggering…..lets have the army do it
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  #1023  
Old 20.09.2022, 10:51
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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you can spin it anyway you like but ultimately the military was called in to remove 50 immigrants from marthas vineyard.
17000 people were removed by the military from the coasts of Louisiana and Mississippi back in 2005.

Context is everything.
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  #1024  
Old 20.09.2022, 10:52
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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So maybe just to clear things up, can please answer the following:

Do you agree with what DeSantis did?

Do you think it was a good thing?

I ask this because you had denied that you condone it and accused me of being wrong for saying that you did condone it. So in order to clear up any misunderstandings, I guess you'd need to directly say that you do not agree with it.
I neither agree nor disagree with what Ron DeSantis did. I don't particularly see it as either a good or a bad thing. It's something that's happened and I'm more interested in what, if anything, changes as a result of this stunt.

Migration is a serious issue that affects the entire west, whether it's the US southern border, boats ferrying people between north Africa and Europe or inflatable dinghies crossing the English Channel. No one seems to know how to manage the issue, whether a strong deterrent is needed, or the facilitation to make it easier for migrants to enter the West. This lack of any sort of strategy at the moment for dealing with migration is simply not working.

Aside from this stunt, I've made no secret that I find Ron DeSantis an impressive politician. His Covid response was outstanding and I can identify with his pro-freedom, open-economy message. I hope that he runs in 2024 and that President Trump does the right thing and steps aside and give him a free shot. If this were to happen, I don't see any Democrat who would be able to stop him.
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  #1025  
Old 20.09.2022, 12:09
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Aside from this stunt, I've made no secret that I find Ron DeSantis an impressive politician. His Covid response was outstanding and I can identify with his pro-freedom, open-economy message. I hope that he runs in 2024 and that President Trump does the right thing and steps aside and give him a free shot. If this were to happen, I don't see any Democrat who would be able to stop him.
Indeed, the covid gamble worked well.

But this is politics. Election day is about 2 years and 6 weeks away. Lots of things can happen during that time. DeSantis popularity can go up or bottom even before prez candidates are selected. A gamble gone wrong and the guy is out of the race before even starting. However, maybe this is probably the reason he's FL governor right now: he takes risks others don't and sometimes has won, a gambler.
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  #1026  
Old 20.09.2022, 12:51
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Indeed, the covid gamble worked well.

But this is politics. Election day is about 2 years and 6 weeks away. Lots of things can happen during that time. DeSantis popularity can go up or bottom even before prez candidates are selected. A gamble gone wrong and the guy is out of the race before even starting. However, maybe this is probably the reason he's FL governor right now: he takes risks others don't and sometimes has won, a gambler.
If he keeps beating the bush around illegals and such he might lose some support. Building a wall mantra worked for Trump but it won't work for everyone else. I'm surprised his PR people don't tell him that some tricks are expired. After all, all Americans are immigrants somewhere down the line and that doesn't take you that far over there, as it takes you in Europe...every single time. Just use some scapegoats and you're good to go here.
Unless he comes up with more serious solutions and issues, he'll be just another clown and a Trump impersonator.
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  #1027  
Old 20.09.2022, 12:52
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I neither agree nor disagree with what Ron DeSantis did. I don't particularly see it as either a good or a bad thing. It's something that's happened and I'm more interested in what, if anything, changes as a result of this stunt.
You have no cojones Tony, just a typical troll who spews nonsense to get a reaction and then doesn't really have anything to stand by or say at all.
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  #1028  
Old 20.09.2022, 13:10
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Bexar County, Texas, Sheriff Javier Salazar opened an investigation on Monday into Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s (R) controversial transport of approximately 50 migrants from San Antonio, Texas, to Martha’s Vineyard, Mass. “We are opening up a case, an investigation, with regard to the suspected activities involving the 48 migrants from Venezuela,” Salazar said in a news briefing.

The sheriff said that the group of Venezuelan migrants were “lured” from a migrant resource center into traveling to Martha’s Vineyard “under false pretenses.”
“What infuriates me the most about this case is that here we have 48 people that are already on hard times, they are here legally in our country at that point, they have every right to be where they are, and I believe that they were preyed upon,” he said.
I hope the whole rotten bunch who organised this farce finish up in jail.
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  #1029  
Old 20.09.2022, 13:20
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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You have no cojones Tony, just a typical troll who spews nonsense to get a reaction and then doesn't really have anything to stand by or say at all.
I took it a different way (ish) - that it was such a heinous act, that not even Tony will admit to supporting it publicly.

The more you sit back and look at it, the more disgusting it becomes.
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  #1030  
Old 20.09.2022, 13:38
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I took it a different way (ish) - that it was such a heinous act, that not even Tony will admit to supporting it publicly.

The more you sit back and look at it, the more disgusting it becomes.
Except if you read all of his comments, he has - he just doesn't want to admit it when asked point blank - because that is what cowards do. And anything but denouncing it, is showing support.

Another example of GOP hypocrisy:

I know many MAGA Latin American immigrants back home who love to claim their parents came "legally" to the US many years ago - when they were coming under the exact same circumstances as the ones arriving today, the laws are just different.

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  #1031  
Old 20.09.2022, 13:39
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I took it a different way (ish) - that it was such a heinous act, that not even Tony will admit to supporting it publicly.

The more you sit back and look at it, the more disgusting it becomes.
The interesting bit is why didn't they pull some kind of stunt with ILLEGAL immigrants? I realise they would have balked at transporting them, given that is against the law but, presumably it would have had more of an impact if they'd made a big deal of illegal immigration instead of messing the whole thing up with people who were allowed to be in the country.
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  #1032  
Old 20.09.2022, 13:59
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I neither agree nor disagree with what Ron DeSantis did. I don't particularly see it as either a good or a bad thing. It's something that's happened and I'm more interested in what, if anything, changes as a result of this stunt.

Migration is a serious issue that affects the entire west, whether it's the US southern border, boats ferrying people between north Africa and Europe or inflatable dinghies crossing the English Channel. No one seems to know how to manage the issue, whether a strong deterrent is needed, or the facilitation to make it easier for migrants to enter the West. This lack of any sort of strategy at the moment for dealing with migration is simply not working.

Aside from this stunt, I've made no secret that I find Ron DeSantis an impressive politician. His Covid response was outstanding and I can identify with his pro-freedom, open-economy message. I hope that he runs in 2024 and that President Trump does the right thing and steps aside and give him a free shot. If this were to happen, I don't see any Democrat who would be able to stop him.
So do you think it's okay that these immigrants were lied to by being told they were being taken to Boston for work permits but instead dumped somewhere else in order to make them "someone else's problem" and used as political pawns, as long as there is a positive outcome from it?
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  #1033  
Old 20.09.2022, 14:03
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I took it a different way (ish) - that it was such a heinous act, that not even Tony will admit to supporting it publicly.

The more you sit back and look at it, the more disgusting it becomes.
Yes. Apparently, intentional ambiguity is the new means of trying to escape accountability.
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  #1034  
Old 20.09.2022, 14:28
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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Except if you read all of his comments, he has - he just doesn't want to admit it when asked point blank - because that is what cowards do. And anything but denouncing it, is showing support.

Another example of GOP hypocrisy:

I know many MAGA Latin American immigrants back home who love to claim their parents came "legally" to the US many years ago - when they were coming under the exact same circumstances as the ones arriving today, the laws are just different.
No wonder Ted Cruz turned out like he did with a dad like Rolf Harris.
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  #1035  
Old 20.09.2022, 14:28
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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You have no cojones Tony, just a typical troll who spews nonsense to get a reaction and then doesn't really have anything to stand by or say at all.
I just don't see things as black as white as you appear to. You should try it, perhaps then you wouldn't be so angry all the time

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I took it a different way (ish) - that it was such a heinous act, that not even Tony will admit to supporting it publicly.

The more you sit back and look at it, the more disgusting it becomes.
FWIW, I don't see it at all as a heinous act.

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So do you think it's okay that these immigrants were lied to by being told they were being taken to Boston for work permits but instead dumped somewhere else in order to make them "someone else's problem" and used as political pawns, as long as there is a positive outcome from it?
They went from sleeping rough on the Texas border to being housed and fed with access to healthcare, counseling and lawyers. How many migrants entering the US do you suppose get that sort of treatment?
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  #1036  
Old 20.09.2022, 14:47
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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I just don't see things as black as white as you appear to. You should try it, perhaps then you wouldn't be so angry all the time
You mean, you don't see things with a heart - if you did, you'd be angry too.

Also, you don't have a leg to stand on by living in a Swiss bubble and informing yourself with only American right wing news sources. I have lived in these border towns and worked with these immigrants for the majority of my life.
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  #1037  
Old 20.09.2022, 14:53
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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They went from sleeping rough on the Texas border to being housed and fed with access to healthcare, counseling and lawyers. How many migrants entering the US do you suppose get that sort of treatment?
Your constant trolling of bare-faced lies makes me sick to my stomach.

They were not "sleeping rough on the Texas border" as you claim.

As Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar stated they were lured from San Antonio's Migrant Resource Center at 7000 San Pedro Ave (see photo) which is 200 Km from the border and has every imaginable support for migrants.
Certainly, that center has far better facilities for migrants than the military camp they are now in.

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  #1038  
Old 20.09.2022, 15:07
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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FWIW, I don't see it at all as a heinous act.
Thank you for your honesty. I think we all suspected, but now finally see your tolerance for the dehumanisation of the beleaguered.

Is that how you ended up in Aargau by the way, someone said they were shipping you to Zurich for work and did the dirty on you
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  #1039  
Old 20.09.2022, 15:12
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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You mean, you don't see things with a heart - if you did, you'd be angry too.

Also, you don't have a leg to stand on by living in a Swiss bubble and informing yourself with only American right wing news sources. I have lived in these border towns and worked with these immigrants for the majority of my life.
Yes, I don't judge matters through raw emotion. People are taught in school not to do this, and for good reason too! Political discourse for a start would be far more constructive if emotion was removed.

So looking at the details of what reportedly happened, how can anyone say the situation of these migrants hasn't improved?

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"So the groups in Texas that we've identified, the majority if not all of the individuals that originated in Texas and ended up on the flight to Martha's Vineyard were indeed homeless, hungry, sleeping outside in parking lots," the officials said. "Many have been in a shelter at some point previously and had been kicked out, did not have a place to go, and essentially we're wandering homeless along the border."

"These were homeless people that were in a rough situation and undoubtedly had their circumstance improved," the officials said. "In fact, several have already communicated their thanks for the opportunity to go to the sanctuary state."
Source -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mig...d-fl-officials

Likewise, you say you have worked with immigrants for the majority of your life, what's that even got to do with the situation at the southern border? I've also worked with immigrants and refugees in Switzerland, however I don't think that makes me particularly better qualified to solve the issue of mass people movements!
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  #1040  
Old 20.09.2022, 15:18
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Re: All about Trump and 2024

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So looking at the details of what reportedly happened, how can anyone say the situation of these migrants hasn't improved?



Source -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mig...d-fl-officials
You realise that the "officials" were the "senior officials in the DeSantis administration" whereas the source in marton's article was the Sheriff? Which source is more likely to provide a "convenient" back-story to make the stunt look good not to mention cover their collective ass now that the heat of the law has been turned up?

All triumphantly reported by Fox News. LOL...
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