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  #101  
Old 20.11.2021, 20:03
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I believe Iíve reiterated this 5+ times now, Iíll say it once more and hope people read it.

The sympathy lies with people afflicted with paedophilia who DO NOT act upon their impulses.
And when a statistical proportion of those resisting paedophiles inevitably do give into some kind of urge (whether it initially be viewing illicit material online), do you still have sympathy for that person who was resisting so well until that 'blip'?

Every paedophile is a potential predator through the very nature of their affliction and most people can only resist sexual desires for so long when every instinct is screaming at them to go and satisfy them. Every time they look at the kind of child they are attracted to then they are going to get aroused and have to fight that same mental struggle. This means they can never be fully trusted around children. Yes it's a shame anyone has to suffer from that kind of thing, but I still have no empathy for it when the consequences are so dire.
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  #102  
Old 20.11.2021, 20:23
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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And when a statistical proportion of those resisting paedophiles inevitably do give into some kind of urge (whether it initially be viewing illicit material online), do you still have sympathy for that person who was resisting so well until that 'blip'?

Every paedophile is a potential predator through the very nature of their affliction and most people can only resist sexual desires for so long when every instinct is screaming at them to go and satisfy them. Every time they look at the kind of child they are attracted to then they are going to get aroused and have to fight that same mental struggle. This means they can never be fully trusted around children. Yes it's a shame anyone has to suffer from that kind of thing, but I still have no empathy for it when the consequences are so dire.
Again, all i can say is stats are not on your side for this one.

Everyone is a potential anything. A large percentage of hetero men are a few drinks or a few promotions away from doing unacceptable things to women, but it would probably be ridiculous to condemn you personally for that, as i presume youíre a respectable chap who resists those urges.
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  #103  
Old 20.11.2021, 20:42
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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And when a statistical proportion of those resisting paedophiles inevitably do give into some kind of urge (whether it initially be viewing illicit material online), do you still have sympathy for that person who was resisting so well until that 'blip'
What else can you do as a compassionate person?

The alternative is mass testing of the population to see if they might have kiddy fiddling tempations now and then. Just in case.

I have every sympathy with people who battle hard against as temptation/socially unacceptable behaviour. If they're really battling hard, they'll understand that if they transgress they'll be dealt with with the full force of the law and the opprobrium of the general public. The fact that they fought so hard, but lost, is not a mitigating factor.
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  #104  
Old 20.11.2021, 21:19
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I believe Iíve reiterated this 5+ times now, Iíll say it once more and hope people read it.

The sympathy lies with people afflicted with paedophilia who DO NOT act upon their impulses.
Yes, I understand that. But for me, I find it difficult -- if not impossible -- to have sympathy for a pedophile even if they're just sitting around daydreaming about raping a child. Sorry. There is really nothing you can say to change that.
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  #105  
Old 20.11.2021, 21:24
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

There was an article about a pedophile in 20 min a year ago which caused quite an uproar.
Sorry, only in german:
https://www.20min.ch/story/ich-bin-p...n-112409244963
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  #106  
Old 20.11.2021, 21:41
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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Yes, I understand that. But for me, I find it difficult -- if not impossible -- to have sympathy for a pedophile even if they're just sitting around daydreaming about raping a child. Sorry. There is really nothing you can say to change that.
Fair enough, i guess weíll park this topic then.
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  #107  
Old 20.11.2021, 22:18
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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Snide comments aside, do you wish to contribute to the debate with your opinions?
I already graced the thread with my opinion, I believe the logical conclusion of woke thinking is the acceptance of paedophiles or ''minor-attracted persons'' as you prefer.
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  #108  
Old 20.11.2021, 23:50
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I already graced the thread with my opinion, I believe the logical conclusion of woke thinking is the acceptance of paedophiles or ''minor-attracted persons'' as you prefer.
Weíve moved way past this theme, could you elaborate please.

The acceptance of paedophiles as humans?
The acceptance that some people have these thoughts but donít act on them?
Or do you mean you believe that in some unspecified time frame, that the act of having sex with children will be acceptable in the U.K. / Switzerland?
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  #109  
Old 26.01.2022, 19:53
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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A transgender university professor in Virginia has been placed on leave after defending pedophiles as 'Minor Attracted People' and saying they shouldn't be ostracized because they can't help their natural urges.
Update:
The transgender university professor has since resigned after 15,000 people signed an online petition to have him removed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments
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  #110  
Old 26.01.2022, 21:22
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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Update:
The transgender university professor has since resigned after 15,000 people signed an online petition to have him removed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments
The daily mail comments section is always the place i look when i want balanced, well reasoned opinions. Like the Mail itself, really.

Note: the two most downvoted comments were making the point I was making. I am glad my moral compass is still functioning
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  #111  
Old 26.01.2022, 22:03
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I am glad my moral compass is still functioning
Towards the magnet in your preferred opinion? (I'm glad that person is gone - it was disgraceful what they said).
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  #112  
Old 26.01.2022, 23:50
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

Joining the discussion late on this one. And this post is a bit disjointed because I'm reading the thread and writing.

A couple of points. "Identifying as a paedophile" - nonsense. It isn't a personality they see themselves as, it's the propensity for an adult to have sex with a child. They might recognise themselves as being paedophiles but even that's long-winded - they are or aren't. (There's too much of a drive for self-labelling these days) That sounds like a bit of piggybacking of arguments (I'll explain below).

And technically 'paedophilia' is attraction to pre-pubescent children. 'Hebephilia' is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14. 'Ephebophilia' is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. Talk of the age of consent is irrelevant, it's about people with sexual attraction to the young (and the age gap dramatically increases as the paedophile ages; and those young sexual objects become too old very quickly, it is just a sex thing) - and it's about the way a few paedophiles (and hebs and ephebs) are trying to claim victimhood and "social justice")

Actual paedophiles often are victims themselves. (Obviously, not all victims become paedophiles). There are some interesting studies into why some go on to have those urges and some don't, and some go on to offend. Interesting but not the point here. But mentioning because ... can you help who you're attracted to? No? Well they're wired that way too. I'm sure they all know it's wrong (some try to justify themselves and may even believe it in a denial way). And plenty do manage not to act on it. And good for them, it can be quite difficult (and for that reason I'd be uneasy to know there were any around children because of the temptation). Doesn't mean I sympathise with them. Doesn't mean I don't sympathise with victims. Do I wish paedophilia didn't exist? Of course. But good for the ones who don't act on it. (Do I need to say that the ones who do are scumbags? Well I think they are, just to be clear what my position is.) I dare say encouraging them to continue to be inactive at times might be helpful rather than blanket condemnation, too. Some people have focused on the word "sympathy" too much, it's not for paedophilia it's for restraint.

I disagree with the original post, which was quoting the biggest clickbait site I know, it's not that bothered with facts (I once saw a picture of white flower with the description 'red flowers' - they really don't care, it's all about stirring up the outrage and getting those clicks). But I can see I a (half-arsed) point. There are some people with paraphilias who are piggybacking on the rightful social calls for acceptance (gay, lesbian) and rejection of intolerance (religious or racial discrimination or hate) to make out that what they're into should be socially-accepted.

(One of the problems with the trans situation is the much broader use of 'trans' now, to include straight men who are sexually-aroused by wearing make up and usually excessively "feminine [sexy]" clothes (previously called 'cross-dressers'). And it's increasingly common. No-one cares what they do in the privacy of their own home with consenting adults but, as someone has already pointed out, lesbians are being pressured and bullied into having sex with these men. You all are dismissing it but actually it's awful. I know some people who are pressured and bullied and slagged off. You've no idea of the social pressure being accused of bigotry brings. You can be cancelled for pointing out that as a lesbian you don't want sex with a man (because you'll be accused of bigotry, for being a genital-fascist. For misgendering, they can get the cops onto you. Seriously. It's staggering. I know hundreds of similar things but I don't think you want to hear.)

Anyway, the "woke" rightly come to the defence of the weak, the victimised and prejudiced against - some of the paedophiles are trying to tap into that success. The OP is lumping the woke in with the people slyly piggybacking on the calls for social justice. But the problem with the first post is it isn't the "woke" doing it as the OP is suggesting. It is *only* paedophiles, inappropriately using the "woke" movement's arguments.

They're onto a loser as it'll never be accepted, nor should it. It's cleverly done. Especially when people can't see what's being done to point out the reasons why those claims are invalid. Accusations of bigotry - particularly in the UK, States, Canada and Australasia - are so very powerful, it can even shut down the most reasonable arguments (ie not ones concerning paedophilia). No wonder why they want to try it on.

Paedophilia rightly will never be accepted though, and I really wouldn't get worked up about it from the likes of the Daily Fail.

Last edited by Lemanglaise; 27.01.2022 at 01:42. Reason: tidying/typos
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  #113  
Old 27.01.2022, 13:54
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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No, because that article does not specify what it considers "acting upon" it... it doesn't have to be physical interaction with a child; the internet, dark web and VPN's has made it easier than ever before to access illicit content. The study also also does not consider who, within the limited study populations of adults who fess up to having those urges, tells the truth about acting upon it in any way. When faced with talking about such dark and shameful desires people rarely tell the full truth, especially if it's highly illegal.

Anyway, I can only re-state that there I have no 'empathy' for these conditions when weighed against the overall principle of protecting pre-pubescent children from any kind of sexual predation, and I really mean it. I guess we have both made our positions clear enough now and I do at least understand your perspective even if I can't agree with all of it.
You seem to be unaware of the fact that the vast majority of child sexual abuse is perpetrated by a member of the child's family, usually the father. The abuse usually goes unnoticed, sometimes spans years, rarely ends with a conviction, and when confronted with the facts, the mother often sides with the father, her child's abuser.

Pedophiles in society exist, and online grooming is definitely an issue, but cases of incest are much more common. So the biggest threat to the safety of children might be closer than you think - in families. This is something that isn't talked about enough - people prefer to divert the issue by constantly referring to the stereotypical image of the pedophile preying on children outdoors, but the statistics say something different.
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  #114  
Old 27.01.2022, 19:30
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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Anyway, the "woke" rightly come to the defence of the weak, the victimised and prejudiced against - some of the paedophiles are trying to tap into that success. The OP is lumping the woke in with the people slyly piggybacking on the calls for social justice. But the problem with the first post is it isn't the "woke" doing it as the OP is suggesting. It is *only* paedophiles, inappropriately using the "woke" movement's arguments.
The whole issue/article is about a woke professor who is trying to ''destigmatize'' paedophilia. He was arguing that there is nothing immoral with an adult being sexually attracted to a child.

So your assertion that ''it isn’t the woke doing it'' is simply wrong.
We even had wokesters in this very thread trying to convince people to have empathy for paedophiles!
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  #115  
Old 27.01.2022, 20:14
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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The whole issue/article is about a woke professor who is trying to ''destigmatize'' paedophilia. He was arguing that there is nothing immoral with an adult being sexually attracted to a child.

So your assertion that ''it isnít the woke doing it'' is simply wrong.
We even had wokesters in this very thread trying to convince people to have empathy for paedophiles!
Interesting, you seem delighted at cancel culture today.

Iím not really sure thatís what he said at all, but as i said before, trying to discern any sensible points between the frothings in the DM is almost impossible.

I believe his research suggested that ďdestigmatizingĒ paedophilia, i.e. making it more acceptable for people to admit to it, would benefit society as they could more easily be treated and monitored.

You still seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between people who molest kids and people who are paedophiles but resist their urges.

Again, Iíll suggest i donít think it is in any way woke to feel sympathy for someone struggling to overcome destructive urges, whether that be alcoholism, drug addiction or some abhorrent paraphilia.
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  #116  
Old 27.01.2022, 20:27
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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The whole issue/article is about a woke professor who is trying to ''destigmatize'' paedophilia. He was arguing that there is nothing immoral with an adult being sexually attracted to a child.

So your assertion that ''it isnít the woke doing it'' is simply wrong.
We even had wokesters in this very thread trying to convince people to have empathy for paedophiles!
I try if at all possible to avoid clicking on the Fail. But in order to look up the story, I bit the bullet.

So it's about Allyn Walker (a Google search for that saves clicking on that link).

You're right, she isn't a paedo. I've looked her up. (Allyn's a transman, which is irrelevant to the discussion of paedophillia).

I'm happy to be corrected.

However, she isn't trying to claim that paedophiles should abuse children. She's working against child abuse but she wants to de-stigmatise paedophiles in order to help them not abuse. I'm still looking it all up and will either edit this or make another post.

However, the very first post on this thread, with the link to the Daily Fail article said:

Britain's most notorious child-sex offenders are using mainstream websites such as YouTube, Twitter and Instagram to rebrand paedophilia as a harmless sexual preference, an investigation for The Mail on Sunday has found.

And my point stands for that.
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  #117  
Old 27.01.2022, 20:29
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I believe his research suggested that ďdestigmatizingĒ paedophilia, i.e. making it more acceptable for people to admit to it, would benefit society as they could more easily be treated and monitored.
In regards to adults being sexually attracted to children he said:

''From my perspective there is no morality or immorality attached to attraction to anyone''

Sorry, not sorry, I think it is immoral for an adult to be sexually attracted to a child.

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You still seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between people who molest kids and people who are paedophiles but resist their urges.
Not at all, I just think any attempt to try and destigmatize adults being sexually attracted to children is wrong.
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  #118  
Old 27.01.2022, 20:33
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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In regards to adults being sexually attracted to children he said:

''From my perspective there is no morality or immorality attached to attraction to anyone''

Sorry, not sorry, I think it is immoral for an adult to be sexually attracted to a child.



Not at all, I just think any attempt to try and destigmatize adults being sexually attracted to children is wrong.
How can there be morality associated with something that isnít a choice? Your suggestion makes no sense.

The only time morality comes into play is whether people choose to act on it.
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  #119  
Old 27.01.2022, 20:47
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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How can there be morality associated with something that isn’t a choice? Your suggestion makes no sense.

The only time morality comes into play is whether people choose to act on it.
I disagree. Morality is also based on a person’s character, and I believe that it's immoral for an adult to be sexually attracted to a child.

I understand that in some cases these people can't help it, and as sorry as I may feel for them, I still think any attempt to destigmatize or normalize such behaviour is wrong and immoral.
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Old 27.01.2022, 21:24
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Re: On the absurdities of the woke cult.

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I disagree. Morality is also based on a personís character, and I believe that it's immoral for an adult to be sexually attracted to a child.

I understand that in some cases these people can't help it, and as sorry as I may feel for them, I still think any attempt to destigmatize or normalize such behaviour is wrong and immoral.
Iím not entirely sure youíve grasped what morality is. Itís primarily about a personís behaviour and values.

What could be more moral than never acting on your sexual impulses because you know itís deleterious to the victim and society as a whole? There can be few more selfless acts than that.

Youíve intentionally conflated destigmatizing and normalising there, thatís extremely intellectually dishonest. Nobody on here is calling for the normalisation of having sex with kids. What is being asked, as a question, is could it be beneficial to society to enable these people to be more open with their affliction that they might be treated and monitored, therefore posing less of a threat to society.
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