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Old 09.12.2021, 10:02
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Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

New Zealand expects to become the first country in the world to ban the sale of cigarettes & tobacco
products in all retail outlets.

Therefore are cigerette & tobacco companies doomed ?

Chances are other countries will follow suit and if the ban on cigarettes & tobacco gets to the stage where it's banned internationally, over the next 10 years; will it become the new class C drug ? that is it's not illegal
to possess it for personal use but supply and production ( under UK law ) can carry penalties of
upto 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both.

BBC News - New Zealand to ban cigarettes for future generations
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:29
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

As much as I despise cigarettes, I also believe in decriminalizing drugs - we don’t need to add another reason to put addicts in jail. And what’s next - alcohol?
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:31
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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As much as I despise cigarettes, I also believe in decriminalizing drugs - we donít need to add another reason to put addicts in jail. And whatís next alcohol?
The reasoning behind the New Zealand proposals is not that at all - they want to stop the next generation from ever becoming smokers in the first place.

If they never start, they can't become addicts.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:34
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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The reasoning behind the New Zealand proposals is not that at all - they want to stop the next generation from ever becoming smokers in the first place.

If they never start, they can't become addicts.
I believe it is naive to think they will never start ... equivalent of changing the drinking age in the US from 18 to 21 - we all still drank, we just had to get creative.

I fully support and encourage removing cigarettes from society - but prison time is not what I want to see on the agenda.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:34
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Wouldn't these measures make smoking more attractive to rebellious youth? I have the impression that the approach is a bit naive.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:35
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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New Zealand expects to become the first country in the world to ban the sale of cigarettes & tobacco
products in all retail outlets.

Therefore are cigerette & tobacco companies doomed ?

Chances are other countries will follow suit and if the ban on cigarettes & tobacco gets to the stage where it's banned internationally, over the next 10 years; will it become the new class C drug ? that is it's not illegal
to possess it for personal use but supply and production ( under UK law ) can carry penalties of
upto 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both.

BBC News - New Zealand to ban cigarettes for future generations
I sincerely hope that tobacco is banned worldwide within my lifetime. Smoking cigarettes is one of those things that has no benefits and is harmful even in very limited quantities.

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Wouldn't these measures make smoking more attractive to rebellious youth? I have the impression that the approach is a bit naive.
Everything banned is more attractive to rebellious youths, but if the education about the health risks is there then the majority of youths will be turned off smoking.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:35
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Despite being a smoker, I think this is a good idea.
Smuggling will be an issue, and the traditional method of asking someone older to buy a pack might include a 30 year old asking a 40 year old instead of 15 and 18.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:46
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Yes, make it illegal. Then we move this scourge from public and put it in closed basements where it belongs. Only have to enforce the law when it is broken in public.

Penalties for public law breaking to include cleaning up cigarette butts from public places. 1,000 butts = 1 less day of punishment.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:48
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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Yes, make it illegal. Then we move this scourge from public and put it in closed basements where it belongs. Only have to enforce the law when it is broken in public.

Penalties for public law breaking to include cleaning up cigarette butts from public places. 1,000 butts = 1 less day of punishment.
Problem with such a punishment is that if nobody is smoking openly in public, it's going to take a long while to find 1000 butts. Maybe the first couple of people manage it, but the guy caught 10 years after the ban is going to have to do some serious legwork.
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Old 09.12.2021, 10:53
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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Wouldn't these measures make smoking more attractive to rebellious youth? I have the impression that the approach is a bit naive.
Removing the normality of smoking as part of everyday life appears to be working in other countries.

It may be difficult to see this sort of effect if one lives in Switzerland where change has been a bit slower -no doubt due to the huge control the tobacco industry has over the country. Switzerland is second-to-bottom in Europe in control and sales of tobacco products.

I don't think New Zealand needs, or wants advice from Swiss residents or government on this matter.
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Old 09.12.2021, 11:37
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Is Merry Jane also banned?
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  #12  
Old 09.12.2021, 12:04
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Sounds like New Zealand are taking lessons from the Taliban !!


Bans rarely work, people find work-arounds, education is a far better way of eradicating tobacco.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:13
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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Problem with such a punishment is that if nobody is smoking openly in public, it's going to take a long while to find 1000 butts. Maybe the first couple of people manage it, but the guy caught 10 years after the ban is going to have to do some serious legwork.
No problem, they serve their full sentence picking up other litter as they go.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:14
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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Sounds like New Zealand are taking lessons from the Taliban !!


Bans rarely work, people find work-arounds, education is a far better way of eradicating tobacco.
I donít care if it doesnít work, it keeps it out of my bubble.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:14
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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As much as I despise cigarettes, I also believe in decriminalizing drugs - we don’t need to add another reason to put addicts in jail. And what’s next - alcohol?
You can ban the sale of cigarettes from retail without criminalise addicts. Switzerland has essential decriminalise addicts, but I don't find crack cocaine on the shelves of Coop.

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Wouldn't these measures make smoking more attractive to rebellious youth?
I really don't think so. Rebellious youths have always been a minority (just make more noise). Most are quite law abiding in my experience. And has banning recreational cocaine usage made it more attractive to anyone?
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:19
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

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Bans rarely work, people find work-arounds, education is a far better way of eradicating tobacco.
It's not to eliminate smoking, it's simply to reduce it. It's all part of nudge theory. Shifting average behaviour towards the "safe" end of the curve.

If you can't get hold of it easily, I doubt many people will bother. And somehow I can't see withholding supply causing the same problems that the so-called War on Drugs has done. Back in the early nineties my employer banned smoking from the premises, including the car park. Since the offices were surrounded by the car park, that meant having to walk off site for a ciggy. Many people just gave up smoking. Some just managed to get through the day without smoking, and a few hard core addicts could be found shivering in the bus shelter.

There was an episode of the IT Crowd parodying this.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:21
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

So I assume pot wonít ever be legalized in New Zealand.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:23
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

No it doesn't as people find a work around. !


Any case it is a ban to selling tobacco to people born after 2008, so junior just finds somebody who was born in 2007 to buy his tobacco.



Thisa will be seen as a new business opportunity by many !!
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:29
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

Wondering if this plan survives the age discrimination part. By 2026 the young born on 2008 will be 18 years old will not be able to buy tobacco. But someone born on year 2007 (19 YO) surely can. When the 2008 people reach 19 one year later, still illegal.

From violence perspective, I don't know why NZ is creating a new and convenient market for organized crime. Convenient because cigarettes are still legal an international waters (open sea), so all production and transport up to 200 miles from NZ coast is legal.
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Old 09.12.2021, 12:33
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Re: Will cigarettes & tobacco become the next illegal drugs problem ?

As NZ aims to be completely tobacco free by 2025 I donít think the discrimination argument could wind itís ways through the courts by then.

Bravo New Zealand for having the balls to stand up to Big Tobacco and addicted zombies.

I just wish my home country had done the same when I was 13.
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