French presidential election 2022 - Page 4

Dack Rambo · #61 25.04.2022, 11:18

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Or in other words, more than half of French voters have voted for "extreme" parties/candidates. I'm not sure how people don't see this as problematic in the longer term.

What would be problematic would be allowing French voters to have a referendum on EU membership. While France is in the EU the politics of Le Pen and Melenchon are impossible to implement.

TonyClifton · #62 25.04.2022, 11:34

	Quote:	Dack Rambo
	What would be problematic would be allowing French voters to have a referendum on EU membership. While France is in the EU the politics of Le Pen and Melenchon are impossible to implement.

Everything is possible even within the EU. See how much Hungary and Poland are able get away with. Marine Le Pen has in recent years reversed her stance on the EU, so even had she won there would have been little risk of departing the EU.

Whilst there is no great desire to exit the EU in France, attitudes towards the EU are among the lowest within the pact. Another issue that will prove problematic in the next Presidential term.

Axa · #63 25.04.2022, 12:07

Quite hard to be afraid of foreigners when you're the foreigner. Anyway, there's some people (18.73%) who manage to do it.

	Quote:
	French President Emmanuel Macron received strong support from French voters in Switzerland in the run-off of the French presidential election. He won 81.27% of the vote cast by French citizens in French-speaking Switzerland, according to provisional results announced on Sunday evening by the French Consulate General in Geneva. Approximately 45% of the 123,838 registered French citizens took part in the second round of the French presidential election. Macron’s rival Marine Le Pen earned 18.73% of the vote. A total of 107 polling booths and 1,200 volunteers were deployed to facilitate the electoral process across six French-speaking cantons of Switzerland.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/macron-...rland/47541950

Urs Max · #64 25.04.2022, 15:57

	Quote:	Dack Rambo
	Macron was the most voted candidate in the first round and second round so his victory is a true triumph of democracy. His main opponents Le Pen and Melonchon have completely contradictory and largely unworkable policies.

72% voted for someone other than Macron in the first round. The additional votes he got in the 2nd round apparently take him either as second best or as the lesser of two evils.

Not sure how that's democratic when almost 3/4 would prefer someone else. As long as there's one single person at the top that won't change though, as a consequence the feeling by many of being left out in the rain won't disappear anytime soon.

	Quote:	Dack Rambo
	What would be problematic would be allowing French voters to have a referendum on EU membership. While France is in the EU the politics of Le Pen and Melenchon are impossible to implement.

"You can have any opinion you want as long as it conforms with the establishment's"
Not sure how that's supposed to reduce the discontent.

komsomolez · #65 25.04.2022, 16:09

	Quote:	Urs Max
	72% voted for someone other than Macron in the first round. The additional votes he got in the 2nd round apparently take him either as second best or as the lesser of two evils. Not sure how that's democratic when almost 3/4 would prefer someone else. As long as there's one single person at the top that won't change though, as a consequence the feeling by many of being left out in the rain won't disappear anytime soon.

If there was a candidate winning north of 50% in the first round, there would not be a second round. So I am not sure what your point is?

Urs Max · #66 25.04.2022, 19:25

	Quote:	komsomolez
	If there was a candidate winning north of 50% in the first round, there would not be a second round. So I am not sure what your point is?

Next time maybe read what you quote.

ETA:
Since you groan: I mean it, read what you quote. The 2nd paragraph answered your question before you've even asked.

Dack Rambo · #67 26.04.2022, 11:42

Both Le Pen and Melenchon are anti EU and anti Euro but they lie and claim that they are not.

Melenchon makes impossible promises such as retirement for all at 60.

At least with Macron people know what they are voting for.

With coalition governments you never know what you are going to get (except in CH of course)

Dack Rambo · #68 26.04.2022, 11:47

	Quote:	Urs Max
	"You can have any opinion you want as long as it conforms with the establishment's" Not sure how that's supposed to reduce the discontent.

The establishment is what we have and people had better get used to it. Pensioners all vote for Macron and as there are more and more retired people, things are not going to change. If it were not for the 2 term limit Macron could remain as president for the next 30 years or more.

komsomolez · #69 26.04.2022, 11:50

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Next time maybe read what you quote. ETA: Since you groan: I mean it, read what you quote. The 2nd paragraph answered your question before you've even asked.

Read it then, read it now. I still don't know what your suggestion is to fix this "undemocratic" outcome. You either have a candidate who wins majority from the start or you are going to build a form of a voter coalition to get behind the eventual winner - for whatever reason they vote for him/her.

Urs Max · #70 26.04.2022, 14:42

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Read it then, read it now. I still don't know what your suggestion is to fix this "undemocratic" outcome. You either have a candidate who wins majority from the start or you are going to build a form of a voter coalition to get behind the eventual winner - for whatever reason they vote for him/her.

The demand to have a solution at the ready when pointing out a problem is rather nonsensical.

You may not be aware, but the outcome was followed by numerous protests with many participants saying that their vote wasn't for Macron but to block Le Pen, now they're protesting Macron to show that they don't want him and his politics either. He's merely the lesser of two evils.

Those who vote for Le Pen on the other hand have been excluded from political power since forever. They don't just feel but actually are excluded from political power. It shouldn't surprise that many get ever more radicalised.

marton · #71 20.06.2022, 10:14

Emmanuel Macron lost his absolute majority in France's lower-house National Assembly as French legislative elections concluded on Sunday, far-right won ten times as many seats.

A coalition now needed...

Biro · #72 20.06.2022, 10:28

Whilst it's most enjoyable to see Micron getting a good kick in the nuts, it will make life very difficult in Europe as there are no strong leaders anymore.

Micron is distasteful but he did try and lead, Scholtz, Boris, both waste of space, Biden, off with the fairies and at present we NEED strong leaders.

TonyClifton · #73 20.06.2022, 11:49

A picture that paints the problems many western democracies face. Centre ground getting squeezed out by both the far left and far right.

Although don't believe the marketing, M. Macron is no centrist

greenmount · #74 20.06.2022, 12:57

	Quote:	Biro
	Micron is distasteful but he did try and lead, Scholtz, Boris, both waste of space, Biden, off with the fairies and at present we NEED strong leaders.

Yes, like Putler!

Necromancer · #75 20.06.2022, 13:55

	Quote:	Biro
	Whilst it's most enjoyable to see Micron getting a good kick in the nuts, it will make life very difficult in Europe as there are no strong leaders anymore. Micron is distasteful but he did try and lead, Scholtz, Boris, both waste of space, Biden, off with the fairies and at present we NEED strong leaders.

Both the Germans and Russians have historically shared a predilection for ‘strong leaders’.
It has never turned out too well and generally leads to a lot of unpleasantness.

TonyClifton · #76 20.06.2022, 14:05

	Quote:	Necromancer
	Both the Germans and Russians have historically shared a predilection for ‘strong leaders’. It has never turned out too well and generally leads to a lot of unpleasantness.

It's not as if having "strong leaders" whatever that means, really improves matters. Economically, look at Turkey, Brazil or Russia, one would be hard pressed to argue these countries are doing much better than their liberal democratic contemporaries with "weak" leaders.

Ultimately democracy is at a cross roads, as yesterday's elections perfectly illustrate, voting for the least worst option has its limits. I don't know how much longer this is sustainable, it's not like France is unique, we see this reflected across much of the democratic world.

Biro · #77 20.06.2022, 19:11

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	It's not as if having "strong leaders" whatever that means, really improves matters. Economically, look at Turkey, Brazil or Russia, one would be hard pressed to argue these countries are doing much better than their liberal democratic contemporaries with "weak" leaders. Ultimately democracy is at a cross roads, as yesterday's elections perfectly illustrate, voting for the least worst option has its limits. I don't know how much longer this is sustainable, it's not like France is unique, we see this reflected across much of the democratic world.

I meant strong leaders in the sense of Regan, Thatcher, Mitterand who wanted and did good for their countries not tinpot dictators.

Axa · #78 20.06.2022, 19:55

	Quote:	Biro
	I meant strong leaders in the sense of Regan, Thatcher, Mitterand who wanted and did good for their countries not tinpot dictators.

Ohhhh, monetarist strategies to control inflation and a laizes-faire approach to the supply side of the economy (e.g. food, housing, cars) without any attempt at all to moderate the social impact of their policies?

Stop.....you're making my inner free-market guy blush

Although, not sure if you can describe them as strong leaders or dominatrix (dominatrices?).

greenmount · #79 20.06.2022, 20:44

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Ultimately democracy is at a cross roads, as yesterday's elections perfectly illustrate, voting for the least worst option has its limits. I don't know how much longer this is sustainable, it's not like France is unique, we see this reflected across much of the democratic world.

Sorry, but this is how democracy works, nothing special happened yesterday. Nobody guaranteed Macron he'll have a comfortable majority. He will have to pursue dialogue with the fringe characters too - Melenchon, Le Pen etc. (and not desert them in their echo chambers with their loyal followers, maybe they'll also learn something)
If you think this isn't democracy, oh, well.

Biro · #80 20.06.2022, 21:13

	Quote:	Axa
	Ohhhh, monetarist strategies to control inflation and a laizes-faire approach to the supply side of the economy (e.g. food, housing, cars) without any attempt at all to moderate the social impact of their policies? Stop.....you're making my inner free-market guy blush Although, not sure if you can describe them as strong leaders or dominatrix (dominatrices?).

I didn't say I agreed, I said they led in the fashion they genuinely thought was best for their countries, rather than the leaders we have today that more and more resemble omelettes !!