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28.06.2022, 08:53
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Louisiana’s three remaining abortion clinics will be able to continue to provide services under a temporary restraining order blocking the implementation of the state’s pre-existing “trigger” laws. | | | | | You mean to tell us there are checks and balances in place at state level too? Who would have thought
Look at how unreasonable this Democratic Redneck Governor of Louisiana is | Quote: |  | | | “I am and have always been unabashedly pro-life and opposed to abortion. However, I understand that people on both sides of this complex issue hold deeply personal beliefs, and I respect that not everyone, including many in my own party, agrees with my position.
While we are still reviewing the decision issued by the Court this morning, Louisiana has had a trigger law in place since 2006 that would outlaw abortion, without exception for rape and incest, should the United States Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade.
I asked the Legislature to include exceptions for rape and incest in the legislation most recently passed. While the bill that passed expanded the exceptions from the 2006 law to include instances of medical futility and treatment of ectopic pregnancies, these important exceptions were not included.
As I have said many times before, I believe women who are survivors of rape or incest should be able determine whether to continue with a pregnancy that is the result of a criminal act.
And, to be clear, the legislation I recently signed protects all forms of contraception, including emergency contraception, which remains fully legal and available in Louisiana.
Being pro-life means more than just being against abortion. It means providing the necessary resources and implementing policies that provide real options and not just lip service to the children, women, and families we are blessed to serve. Now more than ever, it’s critical that Louisiana funds services to support women, children, and families throughout their lives, which is why I have expanded health care through our Medicaid program and lobbied for measures to make sure workers are paid better and more fairly. It’s also why I’ve supported better funding for Louisiana’s public education system, including early childhood education. I believe all people should have the opportunity to succeed and that starts with providing a strong foundation early in life.
Make no mistake, there is much more that we can do to support women, children, and families, and I hope that my fellow pro-life public officials will join me in these efforts in the coming months and years.” | | | | | https://gov.louisiana.gov/index.cfm/...om/detail/3736 | This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post: | | 
28.06.2022, 09:55
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Oh conservatives lie? Who'd have thought?
These politicians pointed to prior statements from Trump appointees Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch; both male judges had claimed they would not overturn Roe.
“I feel misled,” the Maine senator Susan Collins told the New York Times. In a lengthy meeting on 21 August 2018, the Republican reportedly grilled Kavanaugh to explain why he could be trusted not to overturn Roe.
“Start with my record, my respect for precedent, my belief that it is rooted in the constitution, and my commitment and its importance to the rule of law,” Kavanaugh responded, according to notes taken by “multiple” staffers at the meeting, the Times said. “I understand precedent and I understand the importance of overturning it.”
“Roe is 45 years old, it has been reaffirmed many times, lots of people care about it a great deal, and I’ve tried to demonstrate I understand real-world consequences,” Kavanaugh elaborated, according to these notes. He also claimed, “I am a don’t-rock-the-boat kind of judge. I believe in stability and in the Team of Nine.”
Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, the lone Democrat to back Kavanaugh, voiced similar sentiments. “I trusted Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh when they testified under oath that they also believed Roe v Wade was settled legal precedent and I am alarmed they chose to reject the stability the ruling has provided for two generations of Americans,” the Times reported him saying. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ors-roe-v-wade
Then there’s Brett M. Kavanaugh, who insisted in his hearing that Roe was “settled as a precedent,” because “it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years.” Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) emerged from a meeting with Kavanaugh and said he’d assured her that Roe is “settled law." She gave him her vote.
Neil M. Gorsuch was as pure of mind as the others. Asked whether the Constitution protects intimate personal decisions on subjects like abortion and marriage, he said, “I have never expressed personal views as a judge on this subject, and that is because my personal views do not matter.”
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. insisted that as a justice he would merely locate the objectively right decision in all cases, calling “balls and strikes” without concern for any preferences of his own. Asked if Roe was settled law, he replied, “It is settled as a precedent of the Court, yes.”
Confronted at his hearing with a previous written statement that the Constitution does not protect the right to abortion, Samuel A. Alito Jr. vowed that as a judge, he would “put aside” the opinions he had as a lawyer and "think about legal issues the way a judge thinks about legal issues.”
Taking the cake was Clarence Thomas, who swore he had never had a conversation about Roe. He answered a Senator’s question by declaring, “Your question to me was ... do I have this day an opinion, a personal opinion on the outcome in Roe v. Wade; and my answer to you is that I do not.”
From this day forward, no one should be naive enough to believe a word any conservative says on this subject, except for those few who forthrightly proclaim that the Supreme Court must read right-wing policy preferences into the Constitution. There was never any mystery about who these justices are and what they would do. There were only liars saying otherwise, and fools who chose to believe them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...rvatives-lied/
And since you've got so many opinions on US politics, here's mine on your country's biggest liar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p-Ta83V7iw
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28.06.2022, 10:03
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | I'm guessing then you never have. Particularly not in one of the flyover states where the attitude you claim is a minority is completely normal (experience of Oklahoma, anything else round there is the same). | | | | | Just suppose for a minute that your assertion is correct, that those Bible Belt States are full of "Evangelical Christians" (of which a large number would be those pesky black people not behaving how they should), even when best estimates would have their number being below 50% and not actively practicing the caricature Christianity portrayed on this thread. Let's suppose for the sake of argument that they are though.
a) When you don't live there, why do you care?
b) What do you want to do about it?
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28.06.2022, 10:23
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Just suppose for a minute that your assertion is correct, that those Bible Belt States are full of "Evangelical Christians" (of which a large number would be those pesky black people not behaving how they should), even when best estimates would have their number being below 50% and not actively practicing the caricature Christianity portrayed on this thread. Let's suppose for the sake of argument that they are though.
a) When you don't live there, why do you care?
b) What do you want to do about it? | | | | | It would not be too bad if the Evangelicals would stick to themselves, then they could their stuff to their hearts content and decent people could point and laugh. But they are not doing that, they want to wield political power and they are going to get it.
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28.06.2022, 10:54
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | As I mentioned earlier in this thread, banning abortion is the short-game; the long game is the erosion of individual rights, both fundamental and progressive. Today it's abortion,
tomorrow contraception, then
gay marriage,
interracial marriage,
political activism,
free speech,
freedom as you've come to know it.
2 years ago I wouldn't have believed it, but today I would agree the Handmaid's tale is at risk of becoming real. | | | | | Little by little, eh....The thing is USA are still a "model" for other countries and this nonsense could "inspire" a lot of authoritarian regimes. If the USA could, and did, why not them?
Last edited by greenmount; 28.06.2022 at 11:09.
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28.06.2022, 11:03
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, but the US is one of the few countries that claims jurisdiction over its citizens abroad or anyone doing something to their citizens, most famously in murder cases. Now given that we defined life to start basically the moment you have sex… at what moment does the egg become a US citizen? | | | | | The US law is a Birther law, birth in the US automatically gives US citizenship. There is no way to forecast where an egg will be born.
If they should automatically confer US citizenship before birth then presumably any pregnant woman could fly into the US for a brief visit and qualify.
Those are federal laws that claim jurisdiction over its citizens abroad, abortion is now clearly a matter for the states. If one state tries to apply its laws in another state there would be a nasty fight. | Quote: | |  | | | I see the real danger if (when?) states decide that not only are the providers of abortion guilty of a capital crime, but the mother and possibly father are too. Meaning in states with the death penalty a woman could be put to death for having an abortion. | | | | | This is what is known as "pro-life" | The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
28.06.2022, 12:33
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Just suppose for a minute that your assertion is correct, that those Bible Belt States are full of "Evangelical Christians" (of which a large number would be those pesky black people not behaving how they should), even when best estimates would have their number being below 50% and not actively practicing the caricature Christianity portrayed on this thread. Let's suppose for the sake of argument that they are though.
a) When you don't live there, why do you care?
b) What do you want to do about it? | | | | | You really haven't got a clue, have you? The south has black churches and white churches - generally very segregated (and if you're not white, don't show up uninvited to a white one, no matter what the sign says outside - and even if white, think very carefully how you are dressed and what you're going to say). These churches do organise behind politics and political movements, whether to elect the local mayor, to block the new progressive school board and their notions, and serve as a way to either welcome "right" thinking folks or ostracise outsiders with outside ideas. The black churches have some power, but it's kept in check, by social pressure usually, but it can be by financial pressure, police or political harassment, cross burnings, church shootings, and bombings.
You should answer your own questions. You're not an American, so wtf do you care? You've got this (like so much else) so twisted, that you really sound dim.
I'd love to hear about your trip driving through the "real" heartland. Your rental car would get pulled over pretty quick, and if the local Buford Pusser doesn't like your accent or answers, you'd be picking up teeth or worse pretty quickly. Local cops do not like outsiders, nor do they play by rules that you would understand.
The dim bulbs from Top Gear nearly lost their lives, even though filming with a television crew, and that was before Trump, and it's more insular and ugly since then. If you think the police would have done anything the to good ol' boys in this, you are mistaken. At best, they'd look away, and say "Earl, not worth your time." At worst, they'd help bury the bodies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4
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28.06.2022, 12:54
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | You really haven't got a clue, have you? The south has black churches and white churches - generally very segregated (and if you're not white, don't show up uninvited to a white one, no matter what the sign says outside - and even if white, think very carefully how you are dressed and what you're going to say). These churches do organise behind politics and political movements, whether to elect the local mayor, to block the new progressive school board and their notions, and serve as a way to either welcome "right" thinking folks or ostracise outsiders with outside ideas. The black churches have some power, but it's kept in check, by social pressure usually, but it can be by financial pressure, police or political harassment, cross burnings, church shootings, and bombings.
You should answer your own questions. You're not an American, so wtf do you care? You've got this (like so much else) so twisted, that you really sound dim.
I'd love to hear about your trip driving through the "real" heartland. Your rental car would get pulled over pretty quick, and if the local Buford Pusser doesn't like your accent or answers, you'd be picking up teeth or worse pretty quickly. Local cops do not like outsiders, nor do they play by rules that you would understand.
The dim bulbs from Top Gear nearly lost their lives, even though filming with a television crew, and that was before Trump, and it's more insular and ugly since then. If you think the police would have done anything the to good ol' boys in this, you are mistaken. At best, they'd look away, and say "Earl, not worth your time." At worst, they'd help bury the bodies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4 | | | | | Was at a customer outside of Montgomery in Alabama some oodles of yonks ago.
One of the first questions I was asked was where I would like to pray. Not wanting to antagonize anybody by saying "on whom?" Or that I would rather have a rectoscopy with a stick. I told them that as a member of the church of England I tend to pray alone, did not add: "in the hotelbar" This was accepted and for most part I was left alone. Twas just a bit uncomfortable when you were greeted with shouts of PTL in the morning.
I also lost a job on Malta when the owner found out that I was a godless heathen atheist.
So I am a bit biased when it comes to religious wingnuts.
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28.06.2022, 13:01
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | The US law is a Birther law, birth in the US automatically gives US citizenship. There is no way to forecast where an egg will be born.
If they should automatically confer US citizenship before birth then presumably any pregnant woman could fly into the US for a brief visit and qualify. | | | | | Or, parents trying a lot of times and conceiving during a short trip.....Mexicans taking notes | The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
28.06.2022, 14:16
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade
It's really amazing to see dim bulbs argue about the differences between US conservatives and liberals, thinking that it's in some way similar to to European conservatives and liberals. The US is a very different country, where most of our "left wing" politicians would be centre or right of centre in Europe. Look at the majority of Obama's positions, they'd be right wing/conservative in Europe.
I'd genuinely enjoy seeing some of these folks visit the US, outside of a major city, and have a few encounters where they don't have the rights that they take for granted in Europe. It would not be the "liberals" who would scare the sh!t out of them in Tennessee or Kentucky, but the police, the local gun toting militias, and John Lee Undereducated, with opinions, guns, and god on his side, telling ya' to go back to You'rope. Sure they can be friendly enough, at first, but say one wrong thing, and things can change super quick like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3LvAlr5pbQ
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28.06.2022, 14:27
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | It's really amazing to see dim bulbs argue about the differences between US conservatives and liberals, thinking that it's in some way similar to to European conservatives and liberals. The US is a very different country, where most of our "left wing" politicians would be centre or right of centre in Europe. Look at the majority of Obama's positions, they'd be right wing/conservative in Europe.
I'd genuinely enjoy seeing some of these folks visit the US, outside of a major city, and have a few encounters where they don't have the rights that they take for granted in Europe. It would not be the "liberals" who would scare the sh!t out of them in Tennessee or Kentucky, but the police, the local gun toting militias, and John Lee Undereducated, with opinions, guns, and god on his side, telling ya' to go back to You'rope. Sure they can be friendly enough, at first, but say one wrong thing, and things can change super quick like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3LvAlr5pbQ | | | | | The us vs them arguments and speaking condescendingly about your own countrymen is hardly the fix to any of these problems.
I've spent a few months in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. The thing which shocked me most was the poverty on display.
As far as the political spectrum goes, I'm center right here, which makes me a communist in the US. I tended to keep those views to myself.
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28.06.2022, 14:50
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | The us vs them arguments and speaking condescendingly about your own countrymen is hardly the fix to any of these problems.
I've spent a few months in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. The thing which shocked me most was the poverty on display.
As far as the political spectrum goes, I'm center right here, which makes me a communist in the US. I tended to keep those views to myself. | | | | | I'm not speaking condescendingly, I'm speaking from despair, the US education system is so flawed that folks with a high school education in one state, wouldn't comprehend elementary school concepts in others.
The local tax base is what largely funds schools in the US. I can't think of any other country that uses such a system. That poverty which you saw is what I saw daily, and funded the system that I chose to work in. And it was brutal. I had to use text books in the 1990s that still had Martin Luther King referred to as a "Negro leader," and didn't mention his assassination, and when I checked, the books had been published in 1968. These were the only social studies/history books in the entire school depository.
And in many cases, it's only gotten worse, due to the misinformation readily available on Fox News, One America Network, and social media.
You are right, centre right European is basically a commie in the US. It's genuinely terrifying to see the lunatics take control of the entire asylum. Want to fix the US? Fix the education system. The thing is, many of those forced birth kids will be in schools where their classmates are gunned down, and they will feel the system is broken and doesn't care... imagine a continent sized population growing up like Syrian and Afghan kids, or kids in Belfast during the troubles. I really don't know how this is going to get fixed.
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28.06.2022, 14:54
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | It's really amazing to see dim bulbs argue about the differences between US conservatives and liberals, thinking that it's in some way similar to to European conservatives and liberals. The US is a very different country, where most of our "left wing" politicians would be centre or right of centre in Europe. Look at the majority of Obama's positions, they'd be right wing/conservative in Europe.
I'd genuinely enjoy seeing some of these folks visit the US, outside of a major city, and have a few encounters where they don't have the rights that they take for granted in Europe. It would not be the "liberals" who would scare the sh!t out of them in Tennessee or Kentucky, but the police, the local gun toting militias, and John Lee Undereducated, with opinions, guns, and god on his side, telling ya' to go back to You'rope. Sure they can be friendly enough, at first, but say one wrong thing, and things can change super quick like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3LvAlr5pbQ | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | You really haven't got a clue, have you? The south has black churches and white churches - generally very segregated (and if you're not white, don't show up uninvited to a white one, no matter what the sign says outside - and even if white, think very carefully how you are dressed and what you're going to say). These churches do organise behind politics and political movements, whether to elect the local mayor, to block the new progressive school board and their notions, and serve as a way to either welcome "right" thinking folks or ostracise outsiders with outside ideas. The black churches have some power, but it's kept in check, by social pressure usually, but it can be by financial pressure, police or political harassment, cross burnings, church shootings, and bombings.
You should answer your own questions. You're not an American, so wtf do you care? You've got this (like so much else) so twisted, that you really sound dim.
I'd love to hear about your trip driving through the "real" heartland. Your rental car would get pulled over pretty quick, and if the local Buford Pusser doesn't like your accent or answers, you'd be picking up teeth or worse pretty quickly. Local cops do not like outsiders, nor do they play by rules that you would understand.
The dim bulbs from Top Gear nearly lost their lives, even though filming with a television crew, and that was before Trump, and it's more insular and ugly since then. If you think the police would have done anything the to good ol' boys in this, you are mistaken. At best, they'd look away, and say "Earl, not worth your time." At worst, they'd help bury the bodies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4 | | | | | | The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post: | | The following 2 users groan at TonyClifton for this post: | | 
28.06.2022, 15:02
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Oh my, a meme. I am astounded by the eloquence and wisdom of the response.
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28.06.2022, 15:13
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Oklahomo was filled with the kindest most generous people I have lived with in the USA. ( I lived there for 20 months) | | | | | It's Oklahoma.
Shocking that you lived there for 20 months and yet still can't spell it.
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28.06.2022, 15:36
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | It's Oklahoma.
Shocking that you lived there for 20 months and yet still can't spell it. | | | | | Meanwhile, my typo yesterday was reported to a mod as a personal insult. This one apparently is a 'slur' against an entire state. Ban him, ban him. The mods are biased against the American west! <this is sarcasm - I said my piece about the mods not being a monolith yesterday>
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28.06.2022, 16:17
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | |
I'd genuinely enjoy seeing some of these folks visit the US, outside of a major city, and have a few encounters where they don't have the rights that they take for granted in Europe. It would not be the "liberals" who would scare the sh!t out of them in Tennessee or Kentucky, but the police, the local gun toting militias, and John Lee Undereducated, with opinions, guns, and god on his side, telling ya' to go back to You'rope.
| | | | |
Two flashbacks: One awful summer I spent in Hot Springs, SD, and one stop by a Texas Highway Patrol who asked why I had an accent (I grew up in Calif and had lived in You'rope for quite a few years).
Last edited by roegner; 28.06.2022 at 16:20.
Reason: Fixed quote
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28.06.2022, 16:51
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | Two flashbacks: One awful summer I spent in Hot Springs, SD, and one stop by a Texas Highway Patrol who asked why I had an accent (I grew up in Calif and had lived in You'rope for quite a few years). | | | | | I remember getting in trouble for having fireworks in a state park in West Virginia around age 13. My parents were traveling at the time, so I was with family friends. When asked where my parents were, I replied that it was either Belgium or the Netherlands, and he told me that if I gave him the name of one of those fake Peter Pan countries again, he was gonna slap the sh!t out of me.
Now, I hadn’t even done anything, it was the day before Independence Day, fireworks were legal, and I was just walking back to our cabin from town when the ranger stopped me. And rangers generally are nicer than cops.
Of course more fun when a trooper in western PA pulled out his pistol on my wife because she was fidgety in the passenger seat when we got pulled over so they could run our rental car plates. I had to explain that English wasn’t her first language, and she’d never been in a traffic stop before, and didn’t understand that she had to sit still. He gave her an unbuckled seat belt citation to “make sure she remembered next time.” We had no other violations. And my wife is still indignant fifteen years later, as she was buckled in.
I know how much worse it could have been.
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28.06.2022, 17:37
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | I'd genuinely enjoy seeing some of these folks visit the US, outside of a major city, and have a few encounters where they don't have the rights that they take for granted in Europe. It would not be the "liberals" who would scare the sh!t out of them in Tennessee or Kentucky, but the police, the local gun toting militias, and John Lee Undereducated, with opinions, guns, and god on his side, telling ya' to go back to You'rope. | | | | | I guess I'm lucky, I had a few experiences as brown skinned and long haired Mexican in rural Texas  Ahh, it was a bit wild time. I remember driving with a few too many because friends were on acid. Somehow, I was the less disabled. Local gun toting guys relax after they see your car 1 or 2 times. Anyway, wear the Uni tshirt when going to new places, and always open a beer when getting out of the car in the beach, creek, ranch...otherwise it looks suspicious hahaha
Back to the police, I once got told by the police to tone down the party in a house outside the town. We were drunk, but complied with the instruction to lower the music. 10 min later I was doing donuts in my car with furriner plates....but no more music Sir!
A few weeks later, got caught by highway patrol hiding behind some bushes in a long long straight in a rural road in the middle of nowhere. Driving around 150 kmh / 90 mph which was the max speed of the car in a flat road without headwind  Just started the conversation with "good afternoon sir", got asked if I was looking at my speedo and replied "no, long straight. but look at the car, no way I was doing 100". Officer smirked and replied "indeed, you were doing 86. pay more attention next time. This time I have to fill a warning". So, left there with a warning and got half hour late and hungrier to a party south of the border.
Other time, I saw with beer in hand how the police crushed a neighboring party in the apartments near the Uni. Answering in the wrong way got a dozen people handcuffed and face in ground. Don't know why people that gets red-handed try to argue with the police. In principle you're screwed, so better cooperate. It was late and we were noisy, but one party got crushed and mine just went to drink less loudly.
From a certain perspective, it amazes me that doing the same in Switzerland would have had much worse consequences. If I have done the same stupid things here, I'd probably ended with driver permit withheld, in jail or something. Good thing I arrived to CH at 30 YO | The following 4 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
28.06.2022, 18:02
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| | Re: Roe vrs. Wade | Quote: | |  | | | The us vs them arguments and speaking condescendingly about your own countrymen is hardly the fix to any of these problems.
I've spent a few months in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. The thing which shocked me most was the poverty on display.
As far as the political spectrum goes, I'm center right here, which makes me a communist in the US. I tended to keep those views to myself. | | | | | Now those three states are forcing people living in poverty to bring babies into a totally unsuitable environment.
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