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Old 20.09.2022, 09:59
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Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

Amazon has admitted that it shares user data and video recordings of their video doorbells in multiple countries including the US and Germany with law enforcement. They dont request a court order, follow legal proceedings, request permission from the owners or even inform them... the government agents have to fill out a pdf and can then access the data via an interface. Privacy experts say that sharing personal data without legal obligation and without following legal processes is obviously unlawful pretty much everywhere. But since users have not been informed when their data was shared... will nobody file a complaint so the data privacy watchdogs have so far not been able to sue Amazon for it...

https://nachrichten.handelsblatt.com...b81b3028669862
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Old 20.09.2022, 10:13
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

I don't know why anyone would want any home appliance that connects to the internet. The so called "Internet of Things" is just open to abuse. It can only lead to trouble when third parties can control or record what goes on in ones own home.

This is small fry, I imagine people will really sit up and take note when their energy consumption and thermostats are set via their Smart Meters this winter!
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Old 20.09.2022, 10:32
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Amazon has admitted that it shares user data and video recordings of their video doorbells in multiple countries including the US and Germany with law enforcement. They dont request a court order, follow legal proceedings, request permission from the owners or even inform them... the government agents have to fill out a pdf and can then access the data via an interface. Privacy experts say that sharing personal data without legal obligation and without following legal processes is obviously unlawful pretty much everywhere. But since users have not been informed when their data was shared... will nobody file a complaint so the data privacy watchdogs have so far not been able to sue Amazon for it...
Simple, they just put it into their terms and conditions that nobody reads. Iím with TC on this, I donít use internet connected devices other than phone and computer.
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Old 20.09.2022, 10:41
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

Wasnīt it Alexa as well that transmitted data illegally?
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Old 20.09.2022, 11:40
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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I don't know why anyone would want any home appliance that connects to the internet. The so called "Internet of Things" is just open to abuse. It can only lead to trouble when third parties can control or record what goes on in ones own home.

This is small fry, I imagine people will really sit up and take note when their energy consumption and thermostats are set via their Smart Meters this winter!
already happened in the US. people were not able to set the aircon to a colder temperature because electricity company limited it to reduce peak electricity usage.
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Old 20.09.2022, 11:44
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Simple, they just put it into their terms and conditions that nobody reads. Iím with TC on this, I donít use internet connected devices other than phone and computer.
Almost sure any recent car has internet connection.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:07
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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I don't know why anyone would want any home appliance that connects to the internet.
Be able to open remotely the door of your apartment can be a great feature.
Controlling the heating or the hot water remotely can save energy and can be practical.

I understand what your are saying but for some people it is important. Yes, there are risks.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:21
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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already happened in the US. people were not able to set the aircon to a colder temperature because electricity company limited it to reduce peak electricity usage.
Odds are high that in these cases people agreed to allow the electric company to do this to them in return for a lower rate on their electricity though.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:31
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Odds are high that in these cases people agreed to allow the electric company to do this to them in return for a lower rate on their electricity though.
true. didn't stop them complaining about it though :P

in the debate about how temperature caps in switzerland could be enforced, one way would be centrally requiring those companies with access to smart thermometers to enforce the limit.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:35
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

Maybe its me, but I find the idea that any cop who feels like it getting access to a video surveillance of my home without any oversight a much much worse privacy infringement than a remote controlled thermostat.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:39
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Simple, they just put it into their terms and conditions that nobody reads. Iím with TC on this, I donít use internet connected devices other than phone and computer.
Hello. Tell me, do you keep your money under your mattress at home, or do you store it somewhere else online, like a bank ?
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:42
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Maybe its me, but I find the idea that any cop who feels like it getting access to a video surveillance of my home without any oversight a much much worse privacy infringement than a remote controlled thermostat.
How do they work in relation to filming time? Here we have a vid doorbell but it's only active when someone rings the bell and it's not connected to the internet. Do the Amazon versions film constantly?

The reason I ask is because recently in the UK if there has been a crime or incident in a street somewhere, the police ask if anyone has either dashcam footage or doorbell footage they can use, which makes me wonder if the doorbell cameras are constantly filming.

They have to actively appeal to the homeowner for this footage, though, rather than lift it from whichever provider stores it.
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Old 20.09.2022, 12:52
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Maybe its me, but I find the idea that any cop who feels like it getting access to a video surveillance of my home without any oversight a much much worse privacy infringement than a remote controlled thermostat.
That's the point - it depends.

Video is one thing but as for others, I think people are more likely open to online fraud etc from their mobile phone than their washing machine or, as you wrote, thermostat.
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Old 20.09.2022, 13:13
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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How do they work in relation to filming time? Here we have a vid doorbell but it's only active when someone rings the bell and it's not connected to the internet. Do the Amazon versions film constantly?

The reason I ask is because recently in the UK if there has been a crime or incident in a street somewhere, the police ask if anyone has either dashcam footage or doorbell footage they can use, which makes me wonder if the doorbell cameras are constantly filming.

They have to actively appeal to the homeowner for this footage, though, rather than lift it from whichever provider stores it.
Depends on the model but they usually have motion sensors. So they dont just work as a doorbell but a house security system as well. The idea is that you get an alarm with a video call to your mobile whenever there is motion in front of the door - so you could tell a burglar that he is getting recorded ;-)

Problem with that is that people dont necessarily only have them at their front door. but passively video surveille their homes and gardens. I am not in any way "against" law enforcement - but I believe it should be clearly you deciding what you want to share with the cops. And certainly not Amazon.
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Old 20.09.2022, 15:57
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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How do they work in relation to filming time? Here we have a vid doorbell but it's only active when someone rings the bell and it's not connected to the internet. Do the Amazon versions film constantly?

The reason I ask is because recently in the UK if there has been a crime or incident in a street somewhere, the police ask if anyone has either dashcam footage or doorbell footage they can use, which makes me wonder if the doorbell cameras are constantly filming.

They have to actively appeal to the homeowner for this footage, though, rather than lift it from whichever provider stores it.
I have a Ring and you can set it to record continuously or when it detects motion or when someone rings the bell. You can adjust how sensitive it is to motion as well. You should (in the UK at least) ideally black out beyond your property's border for privacy reasons and have a sticker up saying you have cctv recording (Ring provide stickers for this)

I have had the filth at my door once asking if I managed to record someone running along the pavement in front of my house but my Ring hadn't picked it up (I don't record or have any interest in recording beyond my border) and that was the end of it.
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Old 20.09.2022, 17:50
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

There are a lot of privacy concerns after Amazon's recent agreement to acquire iRobot. Roomba vacuums provide details such as room layouts, the number of rooms in a house and furniture placement and whether you need more Alexas.
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Old 20.09.2022, 17:58
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

I just bought a Google mini nest home "assistant" on galaxus yesterday. (It arrives tomorrow). I primarily bought it to be able to play music on-command while in the kitchen.

I told my husband I bought it, and his reacted by warning me that it will be listening in on us. I have no idea if that's true, but I do know that governments have been employing very sneaky methods to obtain information on people (including Facebook, etc.) that most believe is private. If they listen in on us, though, they'll probably just think they accessed a mental ward.
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Old 20.09.2022, 19:25
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Almost sure any recent car has internet connection.
Not mine.
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Old 20.09.2022, 19:26
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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Hello. Tell me, do you keep your money under your mattress at home, or do you store it somewhere else online, like a bank ?
1,000 franc notes under the mattress has a greater return Ö
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Old 20.09.2022, 19:50
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Re: Got a "Ring" video doorbell? Amazon breaks privacy laws

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1,000 franc notes under the mattress has a greater return …
Great response ��(genuinely!)
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