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  #41  
Old 21.09.2022, 20:55
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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There is a bunker thread already.
What about a Protect & Survive thread ?
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  #42  
Old 21.09.2022, 20:58
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Winner??? To quote the great Ronald Reagan: "Nuclear war cannot be won, and must never be fought".
Sadly that was true in the era of Raygun Ronnie‘s megaton nukes. But with today’s low yeald and Dial a yeald nukes in the lower kiloton range and refinement in targeting an in the amount of fallout a nuclear war is fight,- and winnable.
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  #43  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:00
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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This comes to mind:
I watched this fairly recently. I did not remember how bad a plot this was. Going to re-watch The Day After next to cheer me up a little.
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  #44  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:03
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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100 warheads would take 2 boats worth, but I agree with Phil it would do the job. Let‘s also remember that this thread of conversation came about regarding retaliation against a strike on the UK, not as a first strike. The whole point of the deterrent is that if you strike us, we unleash the dogs of war. This is a map of population density rather than wealth, but it reinforces the point IMO.



You really need to stop drinking the Russian kool aid though. Does this top notch ABM system actually exist beyond a technical demonstration? The Russians and the Soviets before them have proven adept at producing one off demonstrators but can‘t productionise them and even then the demo units are prone to failing. T-14 tank during the May parade anyone? T-90M that has just thrown a track and been abandoned? Their knock offs of Concorde or the Space Shuttle going further back. Also given the state of their conventional war stocks, which have either degraded, been stolen or downright never existed as the cash paid for a Dacha and super yacht, I‘m not sure how much credence I would give to them even being able to launch a nuclear strike.
I think they would work as good or as bad as their western counterparts would. I can on the otherhand imagine, as you say, them having issues launching a full on nuke strike, but every Tom, Kim Ill and ayatollah can do a tactical strike
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  #45  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:10
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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I watched this fairly recently. I did not remember how bad a plot this was. Going to re-watch The Day After next to cheer me up a little.
That is a very sanitized US friendly version of the apocalypse. If you really want the cold chills for the rest of your life imagining the aftermath of a nuclear war watch: „dead man‘s letters“ But if that is too dark watch „Threads“
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  #46  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:15
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

I always thought that Raymond Briggs's book, "When the wind blows" was pretty sobering.

Worth a read. Even as an adult.

He died last month.

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  #47  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:21
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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I always thought that Raymond Briggs's book, "When the wind blows" was pretty sobering.

Worth a read. Even as an adult.

He died last month.

Oh yes, I forgot that. Absolute nightmare material
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  #48  
Old 21.09.2022, 21:30
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

I am on holiday close to Calais at the moment and spent a few hours watching a „refugee“ trying to launch a child’s Paddelboat through the surf to get to England. He was spat out by the surf at every attempt. He could not control a Boat and probably not eben swim. In the end it was pathetic to watch and on the radio bbc was announcing Russia’s partial mobilization. Laying on the beach enjoying the Sand on my back, the warm wind, the crashing of the waves and the cry of seagulls made me feel torn.
What a world we live in.
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  #49  
Old 21.09.2022, 22:45
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Oh yes, I forgot that. Absolute nightmare material
I believe Ronald Reagan had a private viewing of „The Day After“, which is credited with changing his view on nuclear war.

And IIRC, he also had a private viewing of War Games - and a subsequent survey brought several weaknesses in DOD computer systems to the light, concluding with a report that yes, the plot was not that far fetched in parts.

Ronnie believed in Hollywood 😁
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  #50  
Old 22.09.2022, 00:33
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Always consider the possibility of EF being a channel for everyone's fears and frustrations.

Fears and frustrations which may or may not have a foundation....most of the time Not.
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  #51  
Old 22.09.2022, 10:26
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

For those worrying that any attack on Russia will result in a nuclear response then look at Putin's speech yesterday "Such terrorist strikes, including with the use of Western weapons, are already inflicted on the border settlements of the Belgorod and Kursk regions.".

Putin does not seem concerned these Russian border regions are being hit.
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  #52  
Old 22.09.2022, 10:44
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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As I already said on the other thread tactical nuclear weapons are the threat. He wont try and flatten London, the risk is by proclaiming the region as russian and then Ukraine carries on into it, he could chuck in a small, tactical nuclear weapon "in self defence" because from their perspective its an invasion of Russia now, something to which they will respond to, they have said publicly.
Why would he nuke his "own" territory if that territory is being claimed as Russian? Makes no sense - would be like him nuking Moscow!!!
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  #53  
Old 22.09.2022, 12:28
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Why would he nuke his "own" territory if that territory is being claimed as Russian? Makes no sense - would be like him nuking Moscow!!!
It depends, especially on the weather (IMO).

AFAIK, in the right conditions, you can minimize nuclear fallout.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not no-mans-land these days and weren't abandoned after the war.

But: any tactical nuclear strike would need some preparations. I assume the gear to shoot that ordnance is not ordinary and sat-int would reveal when it is moved into the theater. I also assume that the US knows the precise location of the storage-units of that ordnance.

That intel would then be quickly shared by the NSA to Ukraine (via State Department, I would assume).

Trump would take it to Twitter, I guess Biden would pick up the red phone at that point and try to talk Uncle Vlad out of it.
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  #54  
Old 22.09.2022, 13:13
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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But: any tactical nuclear strike would need some preparations. I assume the gear to shoot that ordnance is not ordinary and sat-int would reveal when it is moved into the theater. I also assume that the US knows the precise location of the storage-units of that ordnance.
Tactical nukes can be dropped by standard fighter jets. All the Sukhois corrently used in Ukraine can do that... we are not talking about some massive rocket launchers, but a simple, unguided free fall bomb (no need for precision with nukes). No way to have an early warning system for that.

P.S: the Ukrainian jets could as well if somebody would supply them with some.
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Old 22.09.2022, 13:41
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Tactical nukes can be dropped by standard fighter jets. All the Sukhois corrently used in Ukraine can do that... we are not talking about some massive rocket launchers, but a simple, unguided free fall bomb (no need for precision with nukes). No way to have an early warning system for that.

P.S: the Ukrainian jets could as well if somebody would supply them with some.
Also a lot of mobile ground launched systems:

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Old 22.09.2022, 14:46
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Why would he nuke his "own" territory if that territory is being claimed as Russian? Makes no sense - would be like him nuking Moscow!!!
During the cold war, NATO tactical nuclear weapons were designed and aimed to hit areas likely to have concentrations of enemy weaponry. This includes NATO weapons aimed at the Fulda Gap in West Germany. Not all nukes are designed to blow up cities.

It wouldn't take long to reoccupy the blown up area. The half-life of bomb fallout is fairly short. AFAIK is usually safe to come out of bunkers after about 72 hours of detonation. Pretty much all the core radioactive materials are vapourised in the explosion. It is not like the blowout in Chernobyl where pieces of radioactive material were dispersed by a conventional explosion and continue to poison the area.
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  #57  
Old 22.09.2022, 15:34
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Pretty much all the core radioactive materials are vapourised in the explosion
And where does the vapour go?
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  #58  
Old 22.09.2022, 15:47
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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And where does the vapour go?
Outside the environment.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

Last edited by Ato; 22.09.2022 at 15:49. Reason: I don't know how to embed youtube.
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Old 23.09.2022, 19:47
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

Ukraine just lost every bit of respect I had. I know war has its own rules. But it was reported on the news that Russia is holding the shammy Referendum for the two breakaway republics at gun point. But Ukraine has responded that anybody voting to join Russia will be tried for high treason. That is a dick move to an already cowed population.
In further news the claims that Russian troops committed atrocities has been proven, along with proof that Ukraine troops committed the same atrocities on captured Russian troops. I am disgusted, perhaps the nukes should fly and put a brutal full stop on this shitshow.
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Old 23.09.2022, 20:18
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Re: Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine

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Ukraine just lost every bit of respect I had. I know war has its own rules. But it was reported on the news that Russia is holding the shammy Referendum for the two breakaway republics at gun point. But Ukraine has responded that anybody voting to join Russia will be tried for high treason. That is a dick move to an already cowed population.
In further news the claims that Russian troops committed atrocities has been proven, along with proof that Ukraine troops committed the same atrocities on captured Russian troops. I am disgusted, perhaps the nukes should fly and put a brutal full stop on this shitshow.
I hope you are drunk.
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