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Old 01.10.2022, 03:17
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Serbian foreign minister plays down agreement with Lavrov amid criticism

https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/25/...amid-criticism


So they basically fraternise with Russia.


Quote:
Serbia is officially a candidate for EU membership, but the government maintains good relations with Russia and China.

It is also one of a handful of European countries -- including Bosnia, Moldova and Belarus -- that have not followed the EU's lead in placing Russia under sanctions for its war in Ukraine.

However, Belgrade voted three times for UN resolutions that condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and suspended it from the main UN human rights body.

The news of the deal triggered harsh criticism from the pro-EU opposition at home and some EU politicians.

A member of the European Parliament from Germany's Greens, Viola von Cramon, suggested the possible suspension of EU accession talks with Serbia.

"This is a serious scandal," von Cramon said on Twitter. "In the midst of raging war, (the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of) Serbia signs the plan on future collaboration with the aggressor."

Von Cramon added that "maybe it's just a signal for us to freeze the EU accession talks as entering the EU does not go through Moscow."

Another MEP, Vladimir Bilčik from Slovakia, described the agreement with Russia as a "serious blow" to the accession process in the Western Balkans.

Bilčik, a member of the EPP group in the European Parliament, also serves as the rapporteur for Serbia, whose task is to rate European Commission's annual report on the country's progress towards full membership and present it to the parliament for adoption.

The Serbian government is in technical mandate after the most recent election in April.

Current Prime Minister Ana Brnabić was given the green light by President Aleksandar Vučić to continue in her role, and she is expected to nominate the new cabinet soon.

However, it is unclear whether Selaković will keep his post as minister of foreign affairs or remain in the government altogether.
Do they deserve to join EU*?

No, I'm not trolling, I'm just waiting for honest input.
Mods should understand.

Discuss.

*the poll will come tomorrow, I'm going to bed now.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.10.2022 at 14:46. Reason: made it a bit neater, as it shows potential for a serious thread..
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  #2  
Old 01.10.2022, 04:04
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

So what is so bad about what they signed?
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Old 01.10.2022, 10:53
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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So what is so bad about what they signed?
Without further details it looks like a schedule of meeting days and topics to discuss.

Quote:
Nikola Selaković signed the agreement on Friday along with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in New York.

The agreement, dubbed the Consultation Plan, is meant to define the relations between the two foreign ministries for 2023 and 2024.
Not sure how this is worse than relying on Russia for 40-50% of natural gas and blocking Ukraine from NATO back on 2008. German politicians are special.

Quote:
Merkel defends 2008 decision to block Ukraine from NATO
https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...aine-from-nato
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Old 01.10.2022, 12:09
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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So what is so bad about what they signed?
Yeah, what was so bad about what they signed, right? No Archduke was killed this time around as far as I know. And probably no-one would have minded if it was the Tzar...


The other article I found is equally laconic as far as the exact documents are concerned, but knowing how EU operates this last thing is only the cherry on the cake...so it's not the only reason, it is an entire attitude for like since the first discussions in 2009.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/pol...cession-talks/

Quote:
The European Parliament will ask to suspend Serbia’s EU membership talks for as long as Belgrade refuses to join the bloc’s sanctions against Russia.

The report, initially made public in June, stresses the need to “prioritise the alignment of accession countries with the EU’s common foreign and security policy and continue accession negotiations with Serbia only if the country aligns with EU sanctions against Russia.”

The Social Democrat group in the European Parliament appeared to confirm this, tweeting this week that “the EU cannot continue accession talks with Serbia if they don’t align with EU sanctions against Russia“. “That’s what we will say in the Parliament’s upcoming enlargement report,” it added.

Commenting on Serbia’s latest rapprochement with Moscow – last week’s signing in New York of an agreement to coordinate the two countries foreign policy – Parliament’s rapporteur for the enlargement report, Croatian Social Democrat lawmaker Tonino Picula said:

“Very disappointing coming from a country aspiring to join the EU.”

Serbia started accession talks in January 2014 but has made slow progress so far. It has opened eighteen of the 35 negotiating chapters and provisionally closed only two.
With Serbia's accession is a loooong saga and funnily enough North Macedonia, Albania and even Bosnia are more prepared and willing.

They are going to need all the support they can. Looking down at neighbouring countries and harassing national minorities is not going to bring them that support.
And that's just one chapter of the negotiations.

Why am I saying is a long saga? Look, this is from 2020

https://neweasterneurope.eu/2020/11/...e-reasons-why/

Quote:
Serbia received full candidate status for membership of the European Union in 2013. Since then, the country has made modest efforts to tackle its deeply-rooted democratic shortcomings. As of 2020, Serbia’s situation looks frightfully bleak. The current government in Belgrade, effectively under the tight control of President Aleksandar Vučić and his Serbian Progressive Party (SNS), has transformed the domestic state of affairs to a point where EU membership is no longer in the country’s political or economic interest. Five key issues point in this direction.

First, the state-led public crusade against the EU. Serbia’s clear lack of progress toward integration has only encouraged many member states to become more sceptical to enlargement. The EU’s ongoing identity crisis has motivated countries like France and the Netherlands to seek a slower approach to accession for candidates from the Western Balkans. Subsequently, membership has lost its appeal and support among Serbian citizens. President Vučić has made sure to take advantage of this feeling among the public. This is clear regarding the management of COVID-19, with the leader encouraging a narrative of victimisation and bitterness against Brussels. It is therefore not surprising that EU enthusiasm in the country has dropped and only half of Serbians would vote in favour of joining the EU. At the same time, 40 per cent of the population already believe that China is the country’s biggest aid donor.
This from March 2022
Quote:
According to the ISAC Fund, a think-tank based in Belgrade, from 1 January to 31 December 2021, the European Union issued 85 foreign policy declarations asking the candidate countries and partner countries to comply, and Serbia harmonised with 52 of them.

This percentage is an absolute low for a Western Balkans country. In comparison, Albania and Montenegro were fully aligned, with North Macedonia at 96% and Bosnia and Herzegovina at 70%.

Since Putin started his war in Ukraine, it seemed that the maximum Belgrade was ready to offer was support for the UN General Assembly Resolution and for the declaration of the EU top diplomat Josep Borrell of 22 February, which “strongly condemns” Russia’s decision to recognise the independence of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent republics.

Alignment with Borrell’s declaration was essential because Serbia’s attitude towards these documents is monitored in Brussels and included in the final percentage of Serbia’s compliance with EU foreign policy, which is necessary for progress towards EU membership.

Increasing pressure from Brussels

Since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Brussels has said that Serbia is expected to pick a side and that if it is the wrong one, there will be a price.

A group of liberal lawmakers in the European Parliament went a step further and formally asked the European Commission to temporarily suspend accession talks with the Serbian government and deny financial support due to Belgrade’s decision not to join sanctions against Russia.

Vučić’s explanation was, “Serbia will not rush into hostilities because someone asks it to”.

According to analysts, the government in Serbia is trying to buy time until the elections. In their view, the period after 3 April will be crucial for Serbia’s future relations with both Russia and the EU.


Analyst says if Putin was a candidate in Serbia, he would get over 70% of the vote

Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić knows that “Russia has become completely useless for Serbia”, but he will keep up his pro-Putin rhetoric to please his electorate in the run-up to the elections on 3 April, says Orhan Dragaš, a security expert in Belgrade.

[Edited by Zoran Radosavljevic/Alice Taylor]

Languages: Franšais | Deutsch | BulgarianPrint
https://www.euractiv.com/section/enl...tion-campaign/

I can dig way more back in time but I'm not that bored for the moment. I'm glad I opened my own thread and I invite anyone to discuss the pressing problem of Serbia's path to EU and whether or not they deserve it....

You can answer with Yes and No at the bottom of your comment. lol

Last edited by greenmount; 01.10.2022 at 12:38.
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Old 01.10.2022, 12:50
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/25/...amid-criticism

so they basically fraternise with russia.




Do they deserve to join eu*?


No, i'm not trolling, i'm just waiting for honest input.


Mods should understand.




Discuss.

*the poll will come tomorrow, i'm going to bed now.
lol
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Old 01.10.2022, 12:56
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

Written at 2am and barely intelligible... seems like a drunk post if ever I saw one.
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:01
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Written at 2am and barely intelligible... seems like a drunk post if ever I saw one.
Of course you would say that...

I just felt like stirring the pot a little. That was supposed to be "humour", btw.

I think michaelglavinci got it.

(nonetheless, the topic is still a good one and rarely debated here)
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:05
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Of course you would say that...

I just felt like stirring the pot a little. That was supposed to be "humour", btw.

I think michaelgavinci got it.
If it was 'intended as humour', you failed, because no humour is on display. From the time it was posted and the wording it definitely looks like a drunk post.
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:06
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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If it was 'intended as humour', you failed. Definitely a drunk post.


Do you have to add something on the subject?
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:08
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Of course you would say that...

I just felt like stirring the pot a little. That was supposed to be "humour", btw.

I think michaelglavinci got it.

(nonetheless, the topic is still a good one and rarely debated here)
duh!

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...-schengen.html
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:09
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Do you have to add something on the subject?
Nope.
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:10
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Without further details it looks like a schedule of meeting days and topics to discuss.



Not sure how this is worse than relying on Russia for 40-50% of natural gas and blocking Ukraine from NATO back on 2008. German politicians are special.



https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...aine-from-nato
They are not published anywhere and I don't think it's relevant, what is relevant is that Serbia's accession talks to EU will be (probably) blocked/suspended.

Jokes aside, from my POV that is not a good thing because they'll stray even further away from EU and right into Russia's arms and Russia's delusional views about the region. (read more about the Russkiy mir for instance)

Not to mention the resentments that their long talks with EU have created and this is only the beginning, I gather.

A pity.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.10.2022 at 13:20.
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:40
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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A pity.
No it's not. Serbia does not deserve to be the part of the EU.
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Old 01.10.2022, 13:59
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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No it's not. Serbia does not deserve to be the part of the EU.
Do you think this is what most (the majority of) Serbians believe? or just the anti-EU segment of the society.
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Old 01.10.2022, 14:13
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

Back to the original question, I don't know how to answer. Better ask the Patriarch Porfirije who is quoted by Serbian media in every aspect of life.
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Old 01.10.2022, 14:18
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Back to the original question, I don't know how to answer. Better ask the Patriarch Porfirije who is quoted by Serbian media in every aspect of life.
And he is Kirill's golf partner.....I suspect.

So nice to see religion separated from state.

Anyways, if EU Parliament votes for suspending Serbia's accession negotiations this will be the last straw that will probably break even the pro-"Europenists"' trust in a future accession. I hope both sides will reconsider their positions.
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Old 01.10.2022, 14:27
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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They are not published anywhere and I don't think it's relevant, what is relevant is that Serbia's accession talks to EU will be (probably) blocked/suspended.

Jokes aside, from my POV that is not a good thing because they'll stray even further away from EU and right into Russia's arms and Russia's delusional views about the region. (read more about the Russkiy mir for instance)

Not to mention the resentments that their long talks with EU have created and this is only the beginning, I gather.

A pity.
They applied for EU membership in 2009, and there is no indication anyway that they will be accepted any time soon. So who cares if they deserve to join EU?
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Old 01.10.2022, 14:47
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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They applied for EU membership in 2009, and there is no indication anyway that they will be accepted any time soon. So who cares if they deserve to join EU?
Well, Serbians should care, first of all. Because it's about their country and their country's future.

Anyways, Vucic and his party will be mainly responsible for this suspension. Too bad the pro-European camp has lost the momentum.


Quote:
Following the victory by President Vučić and his ruling SNS party in Sunday’s elections in Serbia, the Socialists and Democrats urge him to finally make a clear pro-European choice, restore democracy and the rule of law and take the enlargement process reform seriously. Serbia must also align to the EU sanctions against Russia following Putin’s war against Ukraine as soon as possible. Otherwise, this will have the consequences for its EU perspective.

The return to a pluralistic and diverse Parliament in Serbia is a positive development. However, the S&Ds regret the limited ability of voters to make an informed choice free from undue pressure from the ruling party.

Thijs Reuten, S&D MEP and member of the European Parliament Election Observation Mission, said:

“The main success in these elections was the participation of the opposition, who boycotted the parliamentary elections two years ago. Unfortunately, besides also a higher voter turnout, we cannot add anything more positive, because despite some late legislative changes and diverse political options, the elections were completely dominated by the ruling party. SNS and its allies pressured the voters, abused the media scene, and confirmed again our disappointment with the developments in Serbia. On top of all this, there will be extreme right parties in the Assembly next term.

“It is important to stress that three different elections held at the same time should not be a normal practice in fragile democracies, as the weak electoral conditions are a basis for government abuse of the system. A proof of this is the closing down of the Central Election Committee last night, publishing neither preliminary results nor voter turnout, while President Vučić declared himself the winner of the presidential elections.”

Tonino Picula, S&D spokeperson on foreign affairs, added:

“I am under no illusions, and the Commission should not be either. President Aleksandar Vučić and his EPP-associated SNS party will continue to make a mockery of democracy. These elections have again demonstrated Vučić’s total disregard for the fairness of the electoral process at the expense of the Serbian people. After Serbia’s refusal to fulfil its obligations as a candidate for EU membership by implementing sanctions against Russia, Vučić now adds insult to injury. Serbia needs to make a very clear choice for the Union or face serious consequences. Our stance has not changed: the Council should not open any new negotiation chapters with Serbia until the Vučić government makes this choice, reverses its wilful destruction of the rule of law, and sanctions Russia.”

https://pr.euractiv.com/pr/sds-serbi...on-path-231317

That was in April, 2022, right after the elections. And what did Vucic just do?

Quote:
Serbian Foreign Affairs Minister Nikola Selakovic signed the agreement Friday along with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly meeting in New York, where most Western delegations shunned Russia’s top diplomat over the country’s invasion of Ukraine.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...3008bdcbb7de23

There's still an opposition there, luckily.

Quote:
Quote:
The centrist SSP opposition party said “it is incredible” that at a time when most of the world is apprehensively watching Moscow’s actions, Serbia signed an agreement to consult with a country “that directly violates the U.N. Charter and intends to annex the (Ukrainian) territory.”
Interior Minister Aleksandar Vulin, Vucic’s informal spokesperson, said in a statement that “expanding cooperation with Russia is not a matter of respecting the past but a responsible decision facing the future.”

Serbia is important for Russia as a way to destabilize the Balkans and potentially shift part of the world’s attention from the war in Ukraine.
....interesting last observation and so true.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.10.2022 at 15:27.
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Old 01.10.2022, 20:20
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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Do you think this is what most (the majority of) Serbians believe? or just the anti-EU segment of the society.
I am not sure I understand your question. Do you mean 'do most Serbians believe that the EU thinks that Serbia does not deserve to be the part of the EU' or you mean 'do most Serbians believe that Serbia does not deserve to be the part of the EU'?



In either case, I have no clue.
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Old 02.10.2022, 03:17
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Re: serbian foreign-minister-plays-down-agreement-with-lavrov-amid-criticism

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In either case, I have no clue.
In either case, it looks like Vucic and his nationalistic party has decided for everyone.
Refusing to align with EU's foreign policy and having separate agreement with Russia (among others unfulfilled requirements) will delay Serbia's accession with a few more years. Just like that. And that in case it will still happen sometime in the distant future and doesn't become a "Turkey case". And they don't have to look for or invent external enemies to know who or what is guilty of this. There will be a discussion on 13th October if I understood correctly (I am not sure about this date).
If the vast majority doesn't care about EU (which I reeealy doubt) then so be it. Serbia will be more marginalised and alone while other countries which started the process even later will be admitted and benefit of EU membership. Or maybe they decided they had better alliances to choose from, more culturally appropriated. To each their own.

Last edited by greenmount; 02.10.2022 at 03:29.
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