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  #81  
Old 06.01.2023, 12:19
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Sexual offenders are a problem in any country.
Not sure what your point is …

They literally hound women in groups where it is no longer safe for them to go out, when it once was before. I have personally been spat at while out with girlfriends in Berlin. I’m sorry I cannot accept this medieval way of thinking … they won’t change.
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  #82  
Old 06.01.2023, 12:21
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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I can handle the small time drug dealers etc., but I cannot handle the sexual offenders - immediate deportation to a war zone for all I care. You canít change that kind of thinking with any kind of integration program.
That's where I disagree - I went to Berlin twice last year. Its the only western European capital I know where the airport has posters and announcements about "please use registered taxis only - dont let people chat you up". And truly: as soon as you leave the baggage claim will Turkish guys try to offer their transport services in rather annoying and pushy ways. I dont know how much they will overcharge naive tourists... probably by a lot. I also travelled to Istanbul last year and that would never ever be accepted there. If the cops dont put a stop to those little things do people tend to push the boundaries more and more... and thats exactly whats happening.
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  #83  
Old 06.01.2023, 12:48
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Not sure what your point is Ö

They literally hound women in groups where it is no longer safe for them to go out, when it once was before. I have personally been spat at while out with girlfriends in Berlin. Iím sorry I cannot accept this medieval way of thinking Ö they wonít change.
Or only once their parents have changed, or grandparents. Do we really want to wait that long?
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  #84  
Old 06.01.2023, 12:56
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Regarding why people don't properly integrate - I remain convinced that generous social welfare isbthe core of the problem. You have less of a pull effect atrracting people in the first place, plus if people have to make a living without being on the tit of the state they have much less time and boredom to start shit like that. And 250 EUR per kid (when you have 5) and free housing go a long way if you buy groceries in Berlin NeukŲlln.
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100%. However, just like Switzerland is Germany a federation. You dont have the same problems in small towns in Bavaria or Schwaben... because that's the rich part of the country which has both the money and resources to take care. Berlin is famously bankcrupt and mismanaged. That means not just not enough money for integration, but crucially not enough resources for proper policing either. Which is why organized crime is thriving in the city... the main ones are by the way not recent refugees but Palestinian-Lebanese clans who arrived in the 80s... every German knows the names Abu-Chaker, Miri or Remmo. Since the cops are busy with some really bad apples do they let some petty thieves, illegal cabs and other small fry slip away. If you have a huge group of young males you need to integrate and they find out that you can get away with theft or drug dealing... you end up where we are right now.
the germans will blame anything and everyone except for the migrants themselves. that's part of the problem.
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  #85  
Old 06.01.2023, 12:56
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Not sure what your point is Ö

They literally hound women in groups where it is no longer safe for them to go out, when it once was before. I have personally been spat at while out with girlfriends in Berlin. Iím sorry I cannot accept this medieval way of thinking Ö they wonít change.
Now I understand and am sorry that you had to go through that. Obviously they lack respect towards women, probably due to boredom and the frustration of not finding female companionship according to their standards and expectations. They havenít been integrated correctly and are not afraid of the consequences of their actions. I agree that sending them back to their homeland may be the only suitable recourse.
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  #86  
Old 06.01.2023, 13:34
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Or only once their parents have changed, or grandparents. Do we really want to wait that long?
Actually studies find that it is the other way round, something is going on that is not really understood.
Let me see if I can explain.
Migrants came to Germany in the late fourties, early fifties, they came from Turkey, Italy, Greece and one or two other countries. They worked hard and integrated, albeit with their own customs and traditions but that was never much of a problem. Then they started to have children. These children still had the influence of their parents in regards to culture and tradition but were more integrated. The government thought that this was the way forward and encouraged more of the same kind of integration.
Then things started to go wrong. The children of the third generation started to reject the host country and were rejected in return. So what happened?
Perhaps (I speculate) a critical mass on foreign looking people had been reached and, much like the Pakistani community in the UK, they became more "traditional" than the people left behind in the country their families came from. Or the Wahabi sponsored mosques corrupted them.. Donīt know, dont understand.
Now that there is a new wave of immigrants coming into the country and being rejected by the local population they are finding that the radicalized third and fourth generation of decendants are welcoming them with all the trouble this causes.
Just my two Rappen.
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  #87  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:01
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Actually studies find that it is the other way round, something is going on that is not really understood.
Let me see if I can explain.
Migrants came to Germany in the late fourties, early fifties, they came from Turkey, Italy, Greece and one or two other countries. They worked hard and integrated, albeit with their own customs and traditions but that was never much of a problem. Then they started to have children. These children still had the influence of their parents in regards to culture and tradition but were more integrated. The government thought that this was the way forward and encouraged more of the same kind of integration.
Then things started to go wrong. The children of the third generation started to reject the host country and were rejected in return. So what happened?
Perhaps (I speculate) a critical mass on foreign looking people had been reached and, much like the Pakistani community in the UK, they became more "traditional" than the people left behind in the country their families came from. Or the Wahabi sponsored mosques corrupted them.. Donīt know, dont understand.
Now that there is a new wave of immigrants coming into the country and being rejected by the local population they are finding that the radicalized third and fourth generation of decendants are welcoming them with all the trouble this causes.
Just my two Rappen.

I get that. Let’s look at example Switzerland:

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/die-sch...t-391812034683

(Can register and read for free I think). Main take-aways:

“Now, in most cases, at least in the cities, the students of the Sek B/C have a migration background. This raises the question: Is the integration of foreigners in Switzerland perhaps not only among expats not as successful as hoped? What the schoolgirls told our reporter in a schoolhouse in the greater Zurich area strongly suggests this. It is the stereotypical images of women that we thought had long been overcome that make young men believe they are allowed to do anything with a young woman if she shows her body.”
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  #88  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:03
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Now I understand and am sorry that you had to go through that. Obviously they lack respect towards women, probably due to boredom and the frustration of not finding female companionship according to their standards and expectations. They havenít been integrated correctly and are not afraid of the consequences of their actions. I agree that sending them back to their homeland may be the only suitable recourse.
No worries at all Ö and thank-you. I am spared compared to other stories Iíve read.

I know it is partly due to frustration, but that is also how their society / backwards version of their religion teaches them to behave. It goes very deep!
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  #89  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:07
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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No worries at all Ö and thank-you. I am spared compared to other stories Iíve read.

I know it is partly due to frustration, but that is also how their society / backwards version of their religion teaches them to behave. It goes very deep!

I personally feel it has less to do with religion and more to do with their culture and a lack of respect towards Western women.
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:20
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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I personally feel it has less to do with religion and more to do with their culture and a lack of respect towards Western women.
Culture and religion are very much entwinned in many countries.

Obviously it's not all men from these countries causing problems- as usual it's a vocal, visible minority but having talked to some of them - they get their western women image from the media - usually the trash media.
Their own women don't dress like that and don't behave like that ( quite probably because they'll get into a lot of trouble if they do).

This image has got so much worse with the advent of social media - go on Tik Tok and young women are actively promoting their sexuality in the hope of getting more likes and followers.

Before you all wet yourself in apoplectic rage - I'm not saying western young women are the problem here at all but how to educate these young men to convince them that women should be treated with respect and dignity is a problem which I for one do not have the answer to.
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  #91  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:20
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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I personally feel it has less to do with religion and more to do with their culture and a lack of respect towards Western women.
The problem is that for many, in their religion, a woman has less value than a man...and with what happens for example right now in Iran, it is towards ANY women...as soon as the women do not stick with their rules...
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  #92  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:24
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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I personally feel it has less to do with religion and more to do with their culture and a lack of respect towards Western women.
Well, religion and culture are very interwoven, aren't they?

I see that now some on the left argue that concentrating on the share of the rioters with migration background is misleading as - especially in places like Berlin - the majority of the general young population has a migration background. While that is probably correct, the argument hides that fact that the majority of the rioters are from specific groups of migrants - predominantly Arab/Middle Eastern. Whether this is because of Islam or tribal culture, doesn't matter for me. Why is it that you hardly ever see violence coming from Vietnamese or Eastern European immigrants?
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  #93  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:24
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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The problem is that for many, in their religion, a woman has less value than a man...and with what happens for example right now in Iran, it is towards ANY women...as soon as the women do not stick with their rules...
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...over-hijab-law
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:30
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

That is a male-driven political movement that uses religion as an excuse to exercise power and dominance. Much like the Taliban. I know too many Muslims who are kind and respectful, which is why I donít believe Islam is the real culprit.
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:31
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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Well, religion and culture are very interwoven, aren't they?

I see that now some on the left argue that concentrating on the share of the rioters with migration background is misleading as - especially in places like Berlin - the majority of the general young population has a migration background. While that is probably correct, the argument hides that fact that the majority of the rioters are from specific groups of migrants - predominantly Arab/Middle Eastern. Whether this is because of Islam or tribal culture, doesn't matter for me. Why is it that you hardly ever see violence coming from Vietnamese or Eastern European immigrants?
I do not know about Vietnamese...but "HARDLY" when it comes to Eastern Europe is a bit too much
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:37
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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That is a male-driven political movement that uses religion as an excuse to exercise power and dominance. Much like the Taliban. I know too many Muslims who are kind and respectful, which is why I don’t believe Islam is the real culprit.
I do too and you are 100% correct, which is why I used the term “backwards version of religion.”

I have spoken with people who are of this backwards belief, and they are 100 percent inspired by what they see as “Allah’s will”, even if there are power structures in place behind pushing these beliefs.
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:37
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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The problem is that for many, in their religion, a woman has less value than a man...and with what happens for example right now in Iran, it is towards ANY women...as soon as the women do not stick with their rules...
But that's not Iranian culture and Iranian people - at least in the cities - that's the ayatollahs and the religious Police.

Regarding the value of women compared with men- I'm not sure that's true even when people think it is - in Pakistan for example, they had a women prime minister long before many Western countries and women got the vote nearly eighty years ago and around twenty-five years before they did in Switzerland.

But are women treated unfairly and harshly in many of these countries - yes, absolutely.
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Old 06.01.2023, 14:43
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

The problem is that we do not need to look to other countries to find this kind of attitude...clearly not violence like in Iran but we have our problems. I work in Arbeitsintegration...right now 35 people to integrate (RAV, IV, Sozialamt, Asylumseekers)...16 nations and a Swiss guy...the attitude towards women and not only is mind blowing. Even people who are born in Switzerland.
And speaking of Eastern Europe...we have a young lady from RAV who every day with fear rushes home over lunch to cook and feed her husband (unemployed) and his parents (both retired) and comes back...in 60 minutes. She refused to tell me what would happen if she didnt
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  #99  
Old 06.01.2023, 14:47
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

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The problem is that we do not need to look to other countries to find this kind of attitude...clearly not violence like in Iran but we have our problems. I work in Arbeitsintegration...right now 35 people to integrate (RAV, IV, Sozialamt, Asylumseekers)...16 nations and a Swiss guy...the attitude towards women and not only is mind blowing. Even people who are born in Switzerland.
Someone told me that they had a memo sent round where they worked for the benefit of the Albanian/Kosovan men who worked there explaining that they weren't to order the women around and to treat them as equals.

My son says there are a couple of gangs of Albanian/Kosovan boys at school who make everyone's lives a misery.

An integration course isn't going to change any of this.
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Old 06.01.2023, 15:34
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Re: Germany NYE 2022

So, we can all see the problem and it is growing and festering and becoming more and more disruptive..
The question is: "what are we going to do about it as a society?"
I think the rise of the rightwing and their politics in Europe is showing us the way.
Basically the general population feels that the carrot did not work and now itīs time for the stick, at the moment they, or we all, still let ourselves be lead by a common decency and the ideal of tolerance built up over decades. Mind you also being under the heavy hand of the authorities and the threat of punishment and being called a racist if you were to question the official narrative gives an incentive to be meek and mild.
But let the media begin to chip away the concrete and resentments will break free.
I think that the greatest fear of politicians all throughout the spectrum is that the general population will start to push back, opening themselves to retaliation by the migrants, which by and large will escalate in tit for tat attacks and urinating every body off until the right wing, the far right wing see their ship has come in and win more and more elections. This is 1932 allover again.
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