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06.01.2023, 17:01
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | I think that the greatest fear of politicians all throughout the spectrum is that the general population will start to push back, opening themselves to retaliation by the migrants, which by and large will escalate in tit for tat attacks and urinating every body off until the right wing, the far right wing see their ship has come in and win more and more elections. This is 1932 allover again. | | | | |
Why, were there lots of immigrants in 1932?
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06.01.2023, 17:09
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | Why, were there lots of immigrants in 1932? | | | | | There were scapegoats for problems - and here we have very real problems. I am concerned at what this will do on the far right and how people won’t act for being confused as the people from 1932.
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06.01.2023, 17:15
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | There were scapegoats for problems - and here we have very real problems. I am concerned at what this will do on the far right and how people won’t act for being confused as the people from 1932. | | | | | What I am afraid of right now is that with the repeat of part of the elections in Berlin people will vote right-wing.
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06.01.2023, 17:23
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | There were scapegoats for problems - and here we have very real problems. I am concerned at what this will do on the far right and how people won’t act for being confused as the people from 1932. | | | | | I know what happened.
People should also be careful what they wish for.
Voting extreme right-wing can also bring other consequences.
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06.01.2023, 17:41
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022
its 2023 guys, maybe we could all try to be a bit more tolerant of other cultures. im a bit shocked at he mob reaction here.
afterall, diversity is our strength.
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06.01.2023, 17:48
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | its 2023 guys, maybe we could all try to be a bit more tolerant of other cultures. im a bit shocked at he mob reaction here.
afterall, diversity is our strength. | | | | | I think it all boils down to diverse cultures not being tolerant of European local moral values and culture, despite the willingness of the latter being (a little too open) in welcoming all, personally. Nothing more, nothing less. And nothing to read between the lines.
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06.01.2023, 17:50
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | I know what happened.
People should also be careful what they wish for.
Voting extreme right-wing can also bring other consequences. | | | | | | Quote: |  | | | Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.. Dr. G.M. Gilbert 1976 "The Memory of Justice" | | | | | This! This is what I fear if the far right get their way, this is what you get and it is very predictable. It´s happened before. And this is what the migrants do not understand will be the logical outcome of their actions.
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06.01.2023, 17:53
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | its 2023 guys, maybe we could all try to be a bit more tolerant of other cultures. im a bit shocked at he mob reaction here.
afterall, diversity is our strength. | | | | | "But! But" We tried to be tolerant, we did our best...!" Will be the answer if you did a nationwide poll after new years eve.
How much more tolerant should we be, or a better question: where is the limit to tolerance?
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06.01.2023, 18:08
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | I think it all boils down to diverse cultures not being tolerant of European local moral values and culture, despite the willingness of the latter being (a little too open) in welcoming all, personally. Nothing more, nothing less. And nothing to read between the lines. | | | | | No, it doesnt. Lets just stick to the facts: a bunch of young guys threw fireworks at police and fire brigade on new years eve. Yes, many of them were immigrants, some refugees. However: No there is no proven causal connection that they threw the fireworks because they are from this or that culture. It's literally the same sort of action young Swiss men do before certain football games, the radical left does at the first of may demonstrations in Zurich or neonazis do when doing a "covid" protest.
Long story short: there is a bunch of guys who need to be reminded what the laws are and where their limits are. Problem is that both police and legal system in Berlin are basically dysfunctional. If they got arrested, handed a decent punishment quickly... there is a chance they'd learn. Reality is that if at all they will get a court date in three years and then if at all some suspended sentence because... Berlin. I dont see how any of that has to do with Muslims, refugees, brown skinned or whatever else. People try to use the story for whatever their political goals are - some demand better immigration courses, others demand to send them home. Somehow is "how about we fund the police and courts better and ensure they can do their job" not even an option in the debate.
P.S: Chance of Berlin voting right wing is about zero.
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06.01.2023, 18:12
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022
One of the very few times I find myself agreeing with Mr Söder... the most populistic politician of the conservative party: "its just typical Berlin, nobody supports the police there and stuff like that keeps on happening during events or the first of May. It can happen in Berlin, possibly Hamburg but just would not happen in Southern Germany"... | 
06.01.2023, 18:18
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022
^
this is the guy that was defending the refugees who drugged, raped and killed a 13 year old girl in austria.
as i said, the germans will blame anyone and anything except for the migrants!
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06.01.2023, 18:36
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | ^
this is the guy that was defending the refugees who drugged, raped and killed a 13 year old girl in austria.
as i said, the germans will blame anyone and anything except for the migrants! | | | | | I wish the world was as simple as your world view.
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06.01.2023, 18:47
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | No, it doesnt. Lets just stick to the facts: a bunch of young guys threw fireworks at police and fire brigade on new years eve. Yes, many of them were immigrants, some refugees. However: No there is no proven causal connection that they threw the fireworks because they are from this or that culture. It's literally the same sort of action young Swiss men do before certain football games, the radical left does at the first of may demonstrations in Zurich or neonazis do when doing a "covid" protest.
Long story short: there is a bunch of guys who need to be reminded what the laws are and where their limits are. Problem is that both police and legal system in Berlin are basically dysfunctional. If they got arrested, handed a decent punishment quickly... there is a chance they'd learn. Reality is that if at all they will get a court date in three years and then if at all some suspended sentence because... Berlin. I dont see how any of that has to do with Muslims, refugees, brown skinned or whatever else. People try to use the story for whatever their political goals are - some demand better immigration courses, others demand to send them home. Somehow is "how about we fund the police and courts better and ensure they can do their job" not even an option in the debate.
P.S: Chance of Berlin voting right wing is about zero. | | | | | They were detained, had their ID´s checked and released, not even a slap on the wrist.
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06.01.2023, 18:58
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | What I am afraid of right now is that with the repeat of part of the elections in Berlin people will vote right-wing. | | | | | The mess would be far less prevalent without the naive "MultiKulti", and the simultaneous smearing as racist of whoever dared to disagree. | Quote: | |  | | | The problem is that for many, in their religion, a woman has less value than a man...and with what happens for example right now in Iran, it is towards ANY women...as soon as the women do not stick with their rules... | | | | | Is that why 80-90% of the killed protesters appear to be male? Women are valued less than men thus men get killed in far larger numbers?
Doesn't really add up.
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06.01.2023, 19:25
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Western Austria
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | Is that why 80-90% of the k illed protesters appear to be male? Women are valued less than men thus men get killed in far larger numbers?
Doesn't really add up. | | | | | Why kill women protestors, when they can achieve their goal by killing the men who support them? (Thereby controlling the women with terror.)
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06.01.2023, 19:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | No, it doesnt. Lets just stick to the facts: a bunch of young guys threw fireworks at police and fire brigade on new years eve. Yes, many of them were immigrants, some refugees. However: No there is no proven causal connection that they threw the fireworks because they are from this or that culture. It's literally the same sort of action young Swiss men do before certain football games, the radical left does at the first of may demonstrations in Zurich or neonazis do when doing a "covid" protest.
Long story short: there is a bunch of guys who need to be reminded what the laws are and where their limits are. Problem is that both police and legal system in Berlin are basically dysfunctional. If they got arrested, handed a decent punishment quickly... there is a chance they'd learn. Reality is that if at all they will get a court date in three years and then if at all some suspended sentence because... Berlin. I dont see how any of that has to do with Muslims, refugees, brown skinned or whatever else. People try to use the story for whatever their political goals are - some demand better immigration courses, others demand to send them home. Somehow is "how about we fund the police and courts better and ensure they can do their job" not even an option in the debate.
P.S: Chance of Berlin voting right wing is about zero. | | | | | Berlin typically votes Left, but that is only recently, they used to like to vote Red a while back, Red Wedding isn´t just a TV meme, it is a municipality in Berlin... so it wont take much of a catalyst to change that once more.
It is not just the events at new years eve, it is culminating form the general flow of society, Berlin was just a sniffle in the long running flu.
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06.01.2023, 20:03
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | One of the very few times I find myself agreeing with Mr Söder... the most populistic politician of the conservative party: "its just typical Berlin, nobody supports the police there and stuff like that keeps on happening during events or the first of May. It can happen in Berlin, possibly Hamburg but just would not happen in Southern Germany"... | | | | | I think you've left out the most important sentence, that the police doesn't get their backs covered. Not just, as mentioned, by the politicians but just as much by the general population.
The entire discussion on Berlin's NYE appears to be about demanding solutions from the state (from policing over social services to schools to more money in general) as if society and the general population had nothing to do with it.
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06.01.2023, 20:05
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | Correct. And it is embarassing how the state media has enormous difficulty admitting that immigrants are a big share of the offenders. | | | | | I don't think this is a uniquely German thing, it's prevalent across much of the West. Another example would be on the (lack of) reporting of so called "Grooming Gangs" in the UK. There seems to be some latent fear among media elites of stoking racial tensions. By turning a blind eye though, they infantilize entire populations and erode trust in the media, arguably making matters worse in the long run. | Quote: | |  | | | What I am afraid of right now is that with the repeat of part of the elections in Berlin people will vote right-wing. | | | | | Off-topic, but at least one has to respect the fact this election is being re-run. If by incompetence rather than conspiracy that electoral practices can be so bad as to call into question the integrity of the whole thing then it is only correct that there is a repeat. I can think of a number of US States that could maybe heed a lesson here. | Quote: | |  | | | "But! But" We tried to be tolerant, we did our best...!" Will be the answer if you did a nationwide poll after new years eve.
How much more tolerant should we be, or a better question: where is the limit to tolerance? | | | | | I don't think the answer to this question matters too much anymore. Ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, these people have arrived in Germany and they're not going to be leaving anytime soon.
The time for this conversation was back in 2015. Unfortunately as I recall, it wasn't possible to have an adult conversation about the Migrant Crisis as many who raised objections were simply branded as "Far-Right". Looking back, I guess this is when the first seedlings of the culture wars of today took root.
In the end, what happened has happened, and now people have to live with it, for better or for worse.
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06.01.2023, 20:11
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | Why kill women protestors, when they can achieve their goal by killing the men who support them? (Thereby controlling the women with terror.) | | | | | You're saying that women are incapable of protecting themselves, they need of men to provide a safe framework. I agree. Interestingly enough you go head-on against today's feminist doctrine with that.
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06.01.2023, 20:13
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| | Re: Germany NYE 2022 | Quote: | |  | | | You're saying that women are incapable of protecting themselves, they need of men to provide a safe framework. I agree. Interestingly enough you go head-on against today's feminist doctrine with that. | | | | | Are you not sick of hearing yourself regarding your strange hate, disrespectful and perpetual taunting your views regarding your hate of women? I dare say that the rest of us are.
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