Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08.03.2023, 23:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 587
Groaned at 101 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 1,516 Times in 781 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

With rising petrol prices and environmental concerns, e-scooters are quickly growing in popularity. But as legislation lags are they really an appropriate form of transport, should we embrace them or are they a menace and if they are more trouble than they're worth, should they be banned or what ??


BBC News - E-Scooter rider sentenced over womens death

The Guardian - Australia's E-Scooter debate gains speed but the rules are a mess

Bee Smart City - E-Scooters a collision between innovation & controversy
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09.03.2023, 00:39
Castro's Avatar
la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,840
Groaned at 129 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 17,645 Times in 5,600 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

I think they're great, I frequently rent them in cities over here and abroad, always riding on the road or cycle lanes, never the pavement.

Accidents will always happen, whether on an eScooter, bike, skateboard etc. but in this country at least they are already restricted to 25 km/h, 500 watt motor and prohibited for <14 year olds. So I'd hate to see knee jerk regulation to get them banned.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 09.03.2023, 00:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich City
Posts: 6,876
Groaned at 528 Times in 300 Posts
Thanked 8,427 Times in 3,867 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
I think they're great, I frequently rent them in cities over here and abroad, always riding on the road or cycle lanes, never the pavement.

Accidents will always happen, whether on an eScooter, bike, skateboard etc. but in this country at least they are already restricted to 25 km/h, 500 watt motor and prohibited for <14 year olds. So I'd hate to see knee jerk regulation to get them banned.
I just don‘t get it. Why not just walk
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 09.03.2023, 01:13
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,299
Groaned at 103 Times in 94 Posts
Thanked 7,751 Times in 3,640 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Pedestrian zones should be pedestrian zones.

Of course, if you know your scooter and ride on areas you know, it should be fine (at least the hazard is comparable to a bicycle).

However, hope capitalism does its thing and rental e-scooters from mobility companies are gone soon. Worst combination is a tourist that ignores local conditions riding an unknown machine:

Quote:
VCs Squandered Billions On Scooter Startups. Markets Think They’re Worth A Pittance

If there’s a lesson to be learned from Bird’s up-and-then-down trajectory, it seems more pertinent to investors than startup founders.

Scooters networks simply did what virtually all California unicorns of the era did: They grew rapidly while losing gobs of money. And of course, the problem with being popular while losing money is that the more popular you become, the more money you lose.

Venture backers who bankrolled these losses, however, failed to see a market shift in which public investors would no longer want to support high valuations for high-growth, high-loss companies. That leaves scooter networks and scores of other once heavily subsidized business models eschewing growth-first to focus on stemming losses and pushing toward profitability.
https://news.crunchbase.com/transpor...ket-lime-brds/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 09.03.2023, 02:24
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,447
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,604 Times in 795 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

as someone who has been knocked over (straight backwards, head hit a bench) when driver lost control and came straight at me, I loath them, not to mention how clusters of parked scooters block the pavement I gathered my wits quickly (once I got off the pavement) and gave the lad a firm but almost friendly reminder how it might have ended much worse for both of us (1 in a coma possible brain damage, other with liability)

Those under the age limit seem pretty agile with their payment cards and apps, use them anyway.

A minimum requirement to be in possession of a provisional driving license seems reasonable (eg UK) Perhaps there will be a license developed specifically for e-scooters? motivation to drive a car might be fading.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Tasebo for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 09.03.2023, 07:40
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 23,327
Groaned at 462 Times in 358 Posts
Thanked 18,640 Times in 10,313 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
I think they're great, I frequently rent them in cities over here and abroad, always riding on the road or cycle lanes, never the pavement.

Accidents will always happen, whether on an eScooter, bike, skateboard etc. but in this country at least they are already restricted to 25 km/h, 500 watt motor and prohibited for <14 year olds. So I'd hate to see knee jerk regulation to get them banned.
Really?

https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/s...d-swiss-police

https://www.worldradio.ch/news/bites...-too-powerful/

https://www.tellerreport.com/life/20...1WAH_Yaic.html

I think the main problem is the rules though. Any vehicle that can go faster than 5kmh should be restricted to road use only and not allowed on pavements/walkways. Special lanes like some bike lanes alongside pedestrian walkways you see could also be used, but that's it. But as we know already people can and will break any rules if they feel like it. Not much you can do about stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09.03.2023, 08:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 9,245
Groaned at 337 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 21,157 Times in 7,448 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Electric scooters are annoying, the way they are parked (or better: just left) on any random location is annoying and the people that use them seem to be annoying.

Apart from that, they're fine.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 09.03.2023, 09:06
litespeed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,509
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,276 Posts
litespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

I loathe them for the following reasons:

*They are inherently dangerous due to the small wheel size and braking capabilties. One unobvious pothole and you'll face plant.
*The are too fast for the footpath and two slow for the street.
*for share access, public bikes are better and safer.
*So many people ride them 2-up, which is also illegal.
*I've been overtaken uphill (whilst on a 25km/h e-bike) by tuned models. Highly illegal, and can ruin you if you injure or kill someone.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank litespeed for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 09.03.2023, 09:59
Castro's Avatar
la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,840
Groaned at 129 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 17,645 Times in 5,600 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
I just dont get it. Why not just walk
Because I'm not capable of 25 km/h
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 09.03.2023, 10:27
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,153
Groaned at 39 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 4,283 Times in 1,721 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

I've found them handy, especially when abroad in other cities and not wanting to take a taxi. I think the last time I used one was in Hamburg as I arrived late at night and the train station to the hotel was 20 minutes walk and I just wanted to get into a bed.

If they follow the rules of the road I don't see an issue with them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 09.03.2023, 10:44
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,299
Groaned at 103 Times in 94 Posts
Thanked 7,751 Times in 3,640 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
If they follow the rules of the road I don't see an issue with them.
Indeed, it's thing to use on the road. Not pedestrian zones, not train station platforms, no pavement/sidewalk.

Not hard to use the thingies like a bicycle. Never seen someone riding a bicycle on a train platform where an IC passes through at 100+ km/h. But, people rides scooters there.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 09.03.2023, 11:13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: ZH & BS
Posts: 307
Groaned at 30 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 1,437 Times in 550 Posts
ShirleyNot has a reputation beyond reputeShirleyNot has a reputation beyond reputeShirleyNot has a reputation beyond reputeShirleyNot has a reputation beyond reputeShirleyNot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

I've had a few near misses with e-scooters whilst walking on the pavement. Either been surprised from behind or some dickhead has come flying around a blind corner.

I've also seen a few accidents - two where pedestrians were hit and one where the scooter ran into a car.

There seems to be a reckless approach to using them. Either people are in a hurry so they grab a scooter so they can cover distance as fast as possible or they are inexperienced or just simply unaware of their surroundings. Sometimes you see them with two people riding the same scooter. Colliding with that at 25 km/h as a pedestrian is NOT going to end well.

I thought it was just me that didn't like them because whenever I've mentioned it (office, with friends or whatever) most people just shrug and say they're a good idea. I think they need some proper regulation.

Oh and while I'm on the rant - people just dump them wherever they want, even if it's in the middle of the path or the entrance to a driveway. Or at the bottom of the lake.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ShirleyNot for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 09.03.2023, 12:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 587
Groaned at 101 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 1,516 Times in 781 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Personally I think all E-Scooters should be licensed by those that buy them so in the event of accidents, damage or personal injury, the owner cannot simply run away on his scooter or abandon their scooter in the hope they will not be caught, there has to be liability & responsibility by those that use them.

This inevitably means that e-scooter users must be insured and must as a minimum hold a Provisional Driving License - they should be encouraged or even obliged to take an 'e-scooter road sense' course or 'rules of the road' course' as they're simply too fast & too dangerous to be used on pavements and walkways, meaning they will have to drive on the road but not fast dual carriageways or motorways.
The usual health & safety requirements will also have to be adhered to, namely must wear a helmet and only one person mounted
on the E-Scooter and of course lights ( which some e-scooter manufacturers have on the latest e-scooters already )
__________________
Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09.03.2023, 12:08
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,987
Groaned at 382 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 8,443 Times in 3,603 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
I've found them handy, especially when abroad in other cities and not wanting to take a taxi. I think the last time I used one was in Hamburg as I arrived late at night and the train station to the hotel was 20 minutes walk and I just wanted to get into a bed.

If they follow the rules of the road I don't see an issue with them.
But they don't usually, at least not what I saw in Zurich lately. Worse than bike couriers. Plus half the people don't seem to be able to properly control these things, and of course the scooters are horrible unstable to start with. From a car driver's perspective, higher chance of an accident with a scooter than a bike. From a cyclist's perspective, same and they are annoying on the bike lane.

Oh yeah, and from a scooter user perspective, on the few occasions I wanted to use one, good chance the payment did not work or the thing was out of order.

I hate them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 09.03.2023, 12:51
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: https://youtu.be/JAJbqL2IMm8
Posts: 3,600
Groaned at 81 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 3,687 Times in 1,935 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Only problem is that Most roads, except the autobahns where scooters are not allowed anyway, in this country have no shoulders or break down lanes. One scooter or bike on a country road can easily cause 50+ cars to drive behind it while each car hs to wait for a single break in traffic to pass. Happens in AG daily. Then there are the idiots who drive em. Most have never even driven a car. Once while looking left, waiting to enter a circle, when there was finally a break in traffic and I was about to give gas, I luckily noticed that some kid on a moped was in the meantime blocking my car on the right.
So my answer is don't mix scooters, ebikes, mopeds with cars. It's just asking for trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09.03.2023, 13:03
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,229
Groaned at 793 Times in 620 Posts
Thanked 28,212 Times in 11,391 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
Only problem is that Most roads, except the autobahns where scooters are not allowed anyway, in this country have no shoulders or break down lanes. One scooter or bike on a country road can easily cause 50+ cars to drive behind it while each car hs to wait for a single break in traffic to pass.
So I guess you have a problem with bicycles too?

You're quite entitled, aren't you? You're not in the U.S. now.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09.03.2023, 13:22
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,299
Groaned at 103 Times in 94 Posts
Thanked 7,751 Times in 3,640 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
Only problem is that Most roads, except the autobahns where scooters are not allowed anyway, in this country have no shoulders or break down lanes. One scooter or bike on a country road can easily cause 50+ cars to drive behind it while each car hs to wait for a single break in traffic to pass. Happens in AG daily. Then there are the idiots who drive em. Most have never even driven a car. Once while looking left, waiting to enter a circle, when there was finally a break in traffic and I was about to give gas, I luckily noticed that some kid on a moped was in the meantime blocking my car on the right.
So my answer is don't mix scooters, ebikes, mopeds with cars. It's just asking for trouble.
As usual, communication problems. This is an e-scooter in ZH:

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09.03.2023, 13:33
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,987
Groaned at 382 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 8,443 Times in 3,603 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Great picture that illustrates why these things are totally unsafe. 50 cm wheelbase with center of gravity one meter above.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 09.03.2023, 13:45
litespeed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,509
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,276 Posts
litespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
Great picture that illustrates why these things are totally unsafe. 50 cm wheelbase with center of gravity one meter above.
Exactly. I can watch this video for days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq7cr0WX9SA
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank litespeed for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 09.03.2023, 15:10
litespeed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,509
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,276 Posts
litespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Electric Scooters - love them, loath them or ban them ??

Quote:
View Post
Only problem is that Most roads, except the autobahns where scooters are not allowed anyway, in this country have no shoulders or break down lanes. One scooter or bike on a country road can easily cause 50+ cars to drive behind it while each car hs to wait for a single break in traffic to pass. .
In this argument you need to add tractors. At least bikes and scooters can be overtaken with relative ease. Being stuck behind Urs and his gigantic Fendt dragging his dung-based fertiliser is more nerving.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank litespeed for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric scooters in Zurich Inselaeffli Transportation/driving 2 29.11.2018 22:28
How much does it cost to use electric heaters and electric water boiler? ausoleil Housing in general 5 22.04.2018 23:55
Motorized/electric scooters in CH dreamcatcher Transportation/driving 6 10.01.2012 00:02
Webcam 101 for Seniors ..Love Love Love :) Guest General off-topic 0 15.09.2011 19:50
Electric smoking machine [electric cigarette replacements] jbrady General off-topic 14 03.08.2009 11:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0