Aren’t the Russians already doing this in the Sahel but their strategy is to encourage migrants out to destabilize Europe?

Very much so and as we see the stratergy is working perfectly. And by getting rid of Ghadaffi and the other tin pot dictators the west took the lid of Africa.

"As the european social security system is the carrot right now".

One of the reasons migrants risk getting in a dinghy to Britain via the English Channel is they get nothing from the social security system in France and France is only too glad to get rid of them.

On my recent visit back to Scotland I was taken aback by the number of Africans hanging around the town centre (which like many other British town centres is dying and full of drug addicts adding to its problems). Further round the coast of Fife there has been an influx of young Syrian men. They have been acting inappropriately around teenage girls on the beaches during the school holidays. Parents have reported it to the police as girls no longer want to go there.

In my youth (back in the late 70s) there was a problem with young Libyan men who were training as airline pilots at an aerodrome in Perth. They used to come to the nightclubs in Fife on weekends and were absolute sex pests.

Claraplatz in Basel has a problem with Nigerians hanging round selling drugs. There are always reports they come cross border from Weil Am Rhein on the tram. One of the reasons we moved from there 5 years ago is we would often have anything up to 16 dealers opposite our apartment building late at night, they used to drink and fight during the night and residents couldn't sleep. Our caretaker filmed them and went to Basler Zeitung, it never did any good. Unbelievable as there was a big police station round the corner.

It's like the situation is now so out of control Europe wide no government knows how to deal with it.

"Luckily", the younger Ghadaffi is now trying his luck with the next election, as I saw on Arte TV.


The truth is that is probably too late do do anything about this.
Hopefully, we still have enough barbed-wire in Switzerland....

Let's meet up somewhere in a Pub, and discuss this face to face

Are those fighting words? Or just to say that you realise your comments could be seen as racist but don't want to double down online?

That's not exactly true though. It seems to be more of a Western European problem as you don't really see the same issues in Eastern Europe. Certainly not on the same scale.

Probably better to keep the war criminals in, rather than immigrants out.

It seems every week I read in the newspapers of mainly Swiss companies, and their CEOs in particular, wreaking havoc and destabilising troubled developing countries.

And I haven't even mentioned Glencore, nor Nestle who seem to f**k up everything they touch in the developing world in the name of profits.

Further...

to that comment, I took EXTREEM offence!

The reason I put that in about raceist, is that many times when discussions are around solutions to the refugee problem, ingnoramuses throw out the rataceist comments. I thought I had to do this here because of the Trolls, silly me!

I am not a racist, never will be. There's good and bad in any blocks of people. It dosn't matter about colour, creed race or religion!

When Mr or Mrs Swiss start on about Johny Foreigner, and kick them all out. I usualy say..OK, then see how the country will colapse overnight!

To often on this forum members are attacked or groaned at by Keyboard Warriors/Trolls mindlessly, not giving a shite about the consequences, or maybe they're realy happy about stirring up Members?

Further down on this thread, the question is 'Fighting talk?' I wonder how some of the Trolls would take a Face to Face meeting, or as most of us think, they're just keyboad cowards!

If you would like a Face to Face meeting, please PM me... I'm up for it!

to the others... 'av a Great Evening

GREG

Not to worry, I read your "face to face" as similar to a "Come on outside and I'll show you".

I've organised multiple events in Zürich for members, not for a while now though. So not a keyboard warrior, though I can be nasty with a pool cue!

It is a demand problem. Western european demand for cocaine, extasy and amphetamines leads to them being imported from other countries including eastern Europe. Local dealers are often but not always immigrant youth or border hoppers.
The local press here tends to ignore the demand side.
A better drugs policy seems a long way away.

Well, one reason you don´t see it to the same extent in eastern Europe is that the press don´t like to show the dark sides of their countries, their free press is not the same as our free press. Then the authorities in these countries take a rather dim view on this kind of thing as in a "I have had a bad day so far and I will beat the crap out of you for as long as it takes to feel better"
More reasons are that these drugs will be too expensive for the mass market and people here simply have more money and you don´t want to be crapping in your own back yard, take it somewhere else.

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Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.

Overall situation will become likely more problematic with global warming when less and less places become inhabitable...

These are difficult things. There's a pie and who is willing to give up their share? We partially live good because things function better here than in poorer countries but also because Switzerland and other rich countries (some more than others) exploit many poorer ones.

It is interesting to me how it is important to provide certain level of food, accommodation and other various standards to refugees who are here but there's very limited care about usual practices such as low pay, lack of care for health safety, pollution, etc. of "our" companies or associated companies in their dealings in other countries.

Reality is that most people are not willing to have a significantly lower "life standard" so that we are fare to others who don't have the negotiation power to demand. We are as a society abusing our powers.

Looking at the numbers, it doesn't really seem like Europe could help all of the people who are seeking a better life without being completely overwhelmed themselves with regards to a functioning society eg. housing, schools, medical care, public services etc.

We are not at that point yet, which is why it is so important for the international community to:
reduce the number of conflicts that produce refugees
reduce the disparities in wealth that make people desperate to escape their circumstances
stop the human traffickers from operating

The focus needs to be on the smugglers themselves, rather than the people who are smuggled over. Furthermore, I would expect the UN to enforce a quota system so that where there is a real humanitarian crisis, it is neighboring or culturally similar countries that welcome the refugees. This will facilitate their ability to integrate into their new country. It shouldn't always be the same countries that are accommodating all the legal and illegal asylum seekers.

Not going to be of much use going after the smugglers, as soon as you stop one group, the next one is ready to take the spot, indeed the smugglers are themselves refugees who can operate a boat. Or not, depending if they manage to get it over the sea.
In the news yesterday the EU has dismissed the call for an upper limit on how many refugees a country can take, but there was mention that the number of so-called "safe countries" is to be extended to countries like Morocco, Libya and Tunisia, meaning that they can be legally sent back to those countries. That means two things will happen, these countries will be payed Danegeld and lots of it to take them back, or they will refuse to become safe states and the easiest way to do that is to mistreat the refugees.

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Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.

I think this is the point, there are solutions, however none are palatable to modern European democracies. Or rather to the elite class rather than actual voters. The dictator option is probably the most straight forward option - under Muammar Gaddafi this wasn't an issue.

I am also reminded of how Poland dealt with the issue a couple of years ago when Alexander Lukashenko started flying in migrants and pointing them towards the EU border. They sent all the cameras and press away from the area and then got down to business. One doesn't want to know what went on there, but it was certainly effective.

Then there's the Australian option of offshore processing. This would be possible to implement in the Mediterranean.

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Thou/Thee

These are all great ideas but would likely to decades to implement, if ever. The problem is in the here and now.

Do you think they banished cameras and press because it wouldn't have been "palatable" to the elite classes or the actual voters?

I think you've rather nixxed your own point. If the authorities are cagey about their methods and hide it from the press and general population, the only conclusion is that it would be an unpopular vote-killer.