Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

The primary reason is their stubborn pride not to acknowledge their wartime atrocities and instead accuse (the Chinese) of "fanning anti-Japanese propaganda" among the (Chinese) people. In a country where over 30 million people were mercilessly killed by the occupying Japs and the remnants of the terrifying Unit 731 (more cruel than the Nazi concentration camps) still standing in Harbin, how could they accept repeated denials of the Jap Government? Just compare the Japs with the Germans, and you will see why Europeans have generally accepted the German attitude to war: Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt down before the world in front of the Warsaw Uprising Memorial, although no one told him he must do so.

And what are the Japs doing today? Coverup ! Coverup ! Coverup!

What? You never heard of Unit 731? I can see why many Europeans could not understand why so many Chinese took to the street in 2005 against the Japs now. --- A clear remindance: the Western media only chose what they want to emphasize for reporting.

Then please take a look at http://www.technologyartist.com/unit_731/ or Wikipedia definition to see how the Japs conducted live-body experiements on the living Chinese to take out their infected lungs, kidney and see them blood to death, and how the Americans classified & covered up the whole 731 truth in exchange for invaluable data on live human body experiements.

That's why I wrote to the Economist in London to let the Europeans know some of the feelings of us Chinese, but regrettably, the published article by Economist just picked out those parts condemning the Chinese Government, but kept only a small part condemning Japan --- a common practice of the Western media in reporting about China. To them, an undemocratic government is more worth condemning than anti-human holocaust that was covered up by the Japs.

http://www.economist.com/printeditio...ory_id=3839327

SIR – China's authorities have been cracking down on anti-Japanese sentiments so that the Chinese government doesn't get embarrassed by a diplomatic rift (that could result in its capitulation) with Japan. At last year's football match between China and Japan in the Asian Cup, China silenced all sounds of protest inside the stadium in Beijing with music and later banned the official media from commenting or reporting on the anti-Japanese atmosphere. Being anti-Japan in today's Chinese media is taboo. This is despite Japan never showing sincere remorse for wartime atrocities, which remain so deeply rooted in the Chinese psyche. More denials and cover-ups of historical facts by Japan only deepens the anti-Japanese feeling.
Champson Liu
Berlin


Later, I wrote another letter to Financial Times, on the same issue.

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: Japanese have to show sensitivity to their neighbours

By Champson Liu and Vincent Wei-cheng Wang, Financial Times
Published: May 27, 2005




From Mr Champson Liu.
Sir, By snubbing Japanese prime minister Junichiro Koizumi, Hu Jintao, China's president, is sending a clear subliminal signal to Japan: don't visit the war shrine again or there will be no chance that bilateral relations will warm up. This helps Mr Hu consolidate his power base and placate the anger of the Chinese against Japan.
Mr Hu of course knows this move would come at a price. China's diplomatic image may be tarnished by the Japanese. But Mr Hu's decision to call Wu Yi, a Chinese vice-premier, to cut short a visit to Japan, signified that Beijing has important stakes in not "sending Japan the wrong message". For Mme Wu, once she had shaken hands with Mr Koizumi only to find Mr Koizumi was again going to visit the Yasukuni war shrine, would almost certainly have dealt a fatal blow to her political life in China.
For Mr Hu, a temporary stalemate in Sino-Japanese relations is actually advantageous. It helps him to ease the internal pressure he faces from the predominant mass opinion in response to Japan's failure to reflect sincerely on history.
And at a time when virtually all Chinese citizens are against a Japanese permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, this would amount to a freezing of the issue, thus avoiding having to decide between severing Sino-Japanese relations and antagonising the whole populace.



PLease show moral support for the Chinese, even after the Tokyo courts repeatedly refused to admit the existence of Unit 731 and compensate for the victims of the 731 biological warfare live experiments!
  #2  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:17
panamahat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seefeld, Zürich
Posts: 438
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 71 Times in 57 Posts
panamahat has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

wt? ??
  #3  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
wt? ??
Yes, it is historical truth, and American POWs were also taken from the Philippines to China for such live-body experiements.

The Japs believed they were nothing but "logs". Especially the Chinese. They were never humans in the eyes of the Japs. That's why they could kill 300,000 Chinese civilians in the fallen Chinese capital of Nanking within one month.
  #4  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:26
panamahat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seefeld, Zürich
Posts: 438
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 71 Times in 57 Posts
panamahat has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

uh, ok, if you say so.

But I find it a strange thing to read on an English Forum.
  #5  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:29
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

champson has decided in many posts that he/she must raise our awareness of all things China by simply pounding us into submission with posts. Any discussion attempt is ignored and we get the one-sided champson story.

Kind of spoils any sympathy I might have with regards to this topic. I choose to not believe everything I read on the internet anyway
  #6  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
But I find it a strange thing to read on an English Forum.
Strange? I find it strange to comment this way.

In the same logic, Sadamm Hussein also does not fit in this English forum.
  #7  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:30
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
In the same logic, Sadamm Hussein also does not fit in this English forum.
ah but before the chip develops into a log - the threads are tolerated but tend not to get many replies...

and both topics are usually one-sided affairs by posters who seem to not post very much on other subjects
  #8  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:30
panamahat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seefeld, Zürich
Posts: 438
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 71 Times in 57 Posts
panamahat has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

No interest.

China, not exactly a leading light in humanitarian terms is it
  #9  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
champson has decided in many posts that he/she must raise our awareness of all things China by simply pounding us into submission with posts. Any discussion attempt is ignored and we get the one-sided champson story.

Kind of spoils any sympathy I might have with regards to this topic. I choose to not believe everything I read on the internet anyway
Lob Rockster I do not want to follow your comments and start another war of spit in this forum. Please just mind your language and we can find peace with each other.

Does everybody agree I "pound you into submission"? I found you frequently ran out of derogative words. If you find it unlikely to brand my posting as "propaganda", then the word is changed to "pounding you into submission".

Nice tactics, eh?
  #10  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:35
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
No interest.

China, not exactly a leading light in humanitarian terms is it
Of course not. I wrote in my recent dissertation the following paragraphs:

To understand the government behavior and why the process of depoliticizing needs our patience, we have to take into account the cultural and historical backgrounds to China’s 2000-year-long tradition of totalitarian rule, which has etched in the collective mind of the populace even until today. Traditionally, officials were considered “fathers or mothers” of the common people, and their authority should under no circumstance be challenged. The price for challenging government authority was made so high that nothing in the West could be compared to the practices in Chinese history.


To deter citizens from challenging government authority, various kinds of punishments were enforces for thousands of years, such as cutting off the head of the culprit in widely advertised public executions and then hanging it over the city gate so that every citizen could see the consequence of disobeying. The most severe punishment, the so-called Exterminating Nine Generations, was to extinguish your whole family lest the descendants would seek revenge. Nine generations, including the generations of father, grandfather, grand-grandfather and grand-grand-grandfather, son, grandson, grand-grandson, and grand-grand-grandson, were all executed. If one was already dead, then his body was publicly exhumed and whipped.


Such a cruel punishment was inflicted on a scholar in the Qing Dynasty under Emperor Qianlong, as a misinterpretation of his poet as an allusion to the Qing Dynasty: “The clear wind (Qing Feng) knows no cultured word, and why are you turning the pages of my books in such a wild way?” The Emperor could not tolerate such dangerous thoughts and sentenced the scholar to Exterminating Nine Generations.


Other punishments for free thoughts and challenges to the government authority included 车裂 (torn apart by six horses) and 凌迟(cutting one piece of flesh from the living human body each time, until only the skeleton remains). These cruel ways of punishment just stopped existence 95 years ago. They have worked for 20 centuries on the popular mind as effective deterrence against any disobeying of the superior authority. So the public awareness that official authority should be respected and preserved with severe punishment with no regard to human rights has remained in people’s mind until today. Its heavy influence or unnoticed psychological/cognitive impact on people’s awareness is not to be underestimated ---- which can also be explained in terms of the institutional inertia of old cultural establishments and traditional conceptions according to neo-institutionalism.


Against such a cultural and historical background, the Western world should better understand why the process of depoliticizing is a gradual and step-by-step one in a country with over 2,000 yeas of government domination traditions which persisted in people’s mindset because of the fact that China is the only country in the world that inherits the continuous cultural heritage from 3,000 years ago. --- This is something the Western world has never experienced and certainly hard to understand.
  #11  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:38
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

I'm just posting how I see it. I don't think I've used derogatory wording or terms - it's a fact that your main posts have been on this thread and the myths of China thread and in my opinion, you're not open to discussion on these topics.

As Panamahat said, China needs to clean up its own act before it tries to take the moral high ground.

My granddad was a POW of the Japanese but that's 50 years ago and, even though his health suffered and he died because of his time as a POW, I still have Japanese friends because I've moved on since then.

If we all lived in the past, I'd be wandering around the office duffing Germans in the mush. But I'm not.
  #12  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
and both topics are usually one-sided affairs by posters who seem to not post very much on other subjects
What makes you think the Sadamme Hussein posting is also "one-sided"? Simply it sympathized with the ailing dictator and does not conform to your conception of the world? (or the conception of world you grew up comfortably with?)
  #13  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:44
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
you're not open to discussion on these topics.

As Panamahat said, China needs to clean up its own act before it tries to take the moral high ground.

I still have Japanese friends because I've moved on since then.

If we all lived in the past, I'd be wandering around the office duffing Germans in the mush. But I'm not.
I also have Japanese friends. Many of them. What we are talking about here is GOVERNMENTAL COVERUP. People are so nice. I also have so many friends from Taiwan, but it does not change the fact that I will fight on field the Taiwanese if they declared constitutional independence.

We Chinese are not living in the past, but are angered by repeated denials of truth by the Japs and the miserable victims who failed to get a penny from the Japs after 6 decades. Unlike Germany to its neighbours, China received no war compensation from Japan until now.

As to the "moral high ground", China is certainly not there, but neither is the your motherland. --- Japanese atrocities were not merely immoral things. They were inhuman.
  #14  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:47
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,750
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 2,398 Times in 1,124 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

OK, who killed more Chinese than the Japanese?
Throw in Stalin, Hitler and even Pol Pot assorted massacres and genocides for good measure.

The winner is - Mao Tse-Tsung.

The dead bloke - sorry, sadistic self-centred despot - still worshipped as a
corpse in Tiananmen square... beloved also of course by the left-wing intelligentsia around the world.

70 million. Yes people, more than the population of UK and Switzerland combined.

Shut up, Champson.
  #15  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:49
panamahat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seefeld, Zürich
Posts: 438
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 71 Times in 57 Posts
panamahat has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

........ oh yeh, heard of Tibet ??




Such drivel.
  #16  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:54
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,999
Groaned at 339 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 11,341 Times in 3,924 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

OK Champy, you've beaten me into submission. I have sharpened my ceremonial sword - just tell me how many "Japs" I must execute...
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 15.01.2007, 11:59
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
Quote:
Shut up, Champson.
Shut up if you don't mind your language!

Mao was my biggest enemy, I don't need you to tell me his toll. But by no means was he the biggest killer --- do you have any idea how many more people CHina's first emperor killed? You never bothered to read any dictator history of China and seems to be endlessly obssessed with what the always-right Western media want you to read.

And finally Tiananmen.... I knew it would come. The toll was around 1,000 by Western accounts. And compare the toll of citizens who died in the Kwangchou Massacre in South Korea! --- These were both tragedies before political democratization.

And finally, compare these figures with the toll of Chinese and Koreans under Japanese occupation! Tens of millions!

If any human sympathy still left in your twisted mind? If you don't shut yourself up now, please exit my threads forever!

Quote:
........ oh yeh, heard of Tibet ??
Don't mention Tibet again. I visited Tibet myself, which you certainly did not.

What you depended on was merely Western accounts, Western stories, Western TV, Western papers, Western statements......All from the exiles in India. What else would you expect them to say?

Have you ever been there and use the Tibetan language to talk with the local people there? No you don't bother. Like the Japs, you believe the Chinese were no humans, just blind followers cheated by government propaganda.

Let it be.

Last edited by Lob; 15.01.2007 at 12:03. Reason: merged two posts inline into one
  #18  
Old 15.01.2007, 12:06
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,750
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 2,398 Times in 1,124 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

Quote:
Shut up if you don't mind your language!

Mao was my biggest enemy, I don't need you to tell me his toll. But by no means was he the biggest killer --- do you have any idea how many more people CHina's first emperor killed? You never bothered to read any dictator history of China and seems to be endlessly obssessed with what the always-right Western media want you to read.

And finally Tiananmen.... I knew it would come. The toll was around 1,000 by Western accounts. And compare the toll of citizens who died in the Kwangchou Massacre in South Korea! --- These were both tragedies before political democratization.

And finally, compare these figures with the toll of Chinese and Koreans under Japanese occupation! Tens of millions!

If any human sympathy still left in your twisted mind? If you don't shut yourself up now, please exit my threads forever!
Who cares about ancient history and emporers.
Oh dear, nasty Romans, nasty Ghengis Khan.

You mentioned WW2 and Japanese. Mao is of that period.

Give me hard figures of how many local population were killed with a link to show it instead of simply "10s of millions".

Koreans. Hhhm
How many did Mao sacrifice during the Korean war along with Chinese "volunteers" including his own son?

You started this thread, you suffer the consequences of being challenged.
Very few countries records from that period show up are whiter than white, no need to pick on one country in particular.

Shall we show how Soviet Union indirectly triggered many of the atrocities of the Japanese?
They wanted China to attack the Japanese to keep them from invading Siberia, but not too much, because they didn't want Japan to have a reason to conquer all of China and gain it's resources.
  #19  
Old 15.01.2007, 12:09
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why the Japs are still hated in Asia

I think part of the issue here is that www.politicaldebate.ch hasn't been registered yet...

I know if I wanted to have a political debate on a Monday morning, that's where I'd be
  #20  
Old 15.01.2007, 12:21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
champson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthychampson is considered unworthy
On Korean War

Quote:
Give me hard figures of how many local population were killed with a link to show it instead of simply "10s of millions".

How many did Mao sacrifice during the Korean war along with Chinese "volunteers" including his own son?
Here is the figure you want:

Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million. Most Western historians believed that the figure was at least 20 million. (http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki...o-Japanese_War)

As to the Korean War death toll, remember it is NOT the Chinese but the Koreans who started the war. China was forced to get involved because General MacArthur was a typical arrogant Westerner who ignored repeated warnings from Premier Chou Enlai and continued bombing Chinese territory in Manchuria. Imagine what would the French do if the British Army bombed Calais when they fought the Belgium civil war.

Here is the quote from Wikipedia about the arrogant bombing by US troops of China's Manchuria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Many in the west, including General MacArthur, thought that spreading the war to China would be necessary. However, Truman and the other leaders disagreed, and MacArthur was ordered to be very cautious when approaching the Chinese border. Eventually, MacArthur disregarded these concerns, arguing that since the North Korean troops were being supplied by bases in China, those supply depots should be bombed. The CIA had previously told Truman that Chinese involvement was unlikely. MacArthur, saying he was speculating, saw little risk. The general explained that the Chinese had no air force; hence, "if the Chinese tried to get down to Pyongyang there would be the greatest slaughter." MacArthur thus assumed that Chinese were motivated to help North Korea, and wished to avoid heavy casualties.
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0