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Old 29.12.2008, 12:43
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Israel - Palestine, when will it end

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/me...kes/index.html

Israeli airstrikes continue

What a frustrating vicious cycle these two are engaged in.
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Old 29.12.2008, 16:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/me...kes/index.html

Israeli airstrikes continue

What a frustrating vicious cycle these two are engaged in.
It will most likely end when all notions of Israel/Palestine are abolished and replaced by a single, secular state (as proposed by the Israeli academic Ilan Pappé).
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Old 29.12.2008, 17:21
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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It will most likely end when all notions of Israel/Palestine are abolished and replaced by a single, secular state (as proposed by the Israeli academic Ilan Pappé).

Watch for the flying pig.....
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Old 29.12.2008, 17:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

The main reason I see no end to this conflict is the fact that both sides are completely uninterested in having actual moral superiority in this situation. They seem more than content to just clobber the other into submission, no matter how distant the possibility of that "submission" may seem.

Israel's complete lack of restraint and disproportionate responses are contemptible, no doubt, but the Palestinians don't exactly make it easy for them. Like the famous quote says: "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Since the founding of Israel, the Palestinians' leadership has been inept and awful in almost every way. People like me, who would normally sympathize with their plight after events like Israel's recent strikes, see nothing justifiable in tactics like suicide bombings that target civilians.

Maybe the fight has simply gone on for too long.
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Old 29.12.2008, 18:17
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Watch for the flying pig.....
Personally I can't see a two State solution working either, despite 60 odd years of trying.
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Old 29.12.2008, 22:04
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

I'm curious as to the timing of these attacks after what seemed liked a relatively quiet period in recent months. The Israelis announced today that they are in a full scale war with Hamas. Is it just a coincidence that the new administration is about to take over in the White house later in Jan'?.. are the Israelis worried about Obama/Clinton's forthcoming policies regarding the middle east..?? It will be interesting to see what the response will be when they take office on Jan 20th.

Meanwhile, the horrible attacks continue which will bring little gain for the Israelis and more hopelessness and hatred for the Palestinians - a fertile breeding ground for more suicide bombers.. and on and on it goes..
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Old 29.12.2008, 22:11
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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I'm curious as to the timing of these attacks after what seemed liked a relatively quiet period in recent months. The Israelis announced today that they are in a full scale war with Hamas. Is it just a coincidence that the new administration is about to take over in the White house later in Jan'?.. are the Israelis worried about Obama/Clinton's forthcoming policies regarding the middle east..?? It will be interesting to see what the response will be when they take office on Jan 20th.

Meanwhile, the horrible attacks continue which will bring little gain for the Israelis and more hopelessness and hatred for the Palestinians - a fertile breeding ground for more suicide bombers.. and on and on it goes..
Three fairly significant events coincided which may have precipitated the attacks.

1) Dying days of the lame duck Bush Presidency
2) End of the Hamas/Israel ceasfire brokered by Egypt
3) Upcoming Israeli elections
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Old 29.12.2008, 22:51
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

I gess this war will continue untill the end of all paletines are killed by Israil. This is obviously a state terror carried out by İsrail State killing innocent people, women, childrend what's more even babies cruelly...History is a long process which is forgotten nothing. Unfortunately, İsrail earns enemy more every passing day and endanger its next generations. Even though Hamas has some faults blocking the peace process, it does not lagitimate this slaugter. Sadly, This is the level where so-called modern world has reached in.
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Old 29.12.2008, 23:25
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

Of course, it does help if the Palastinians don't keep firing rockets into Israel.
Both sides appear to be led by petulant children, just armed with rather dangerous toys.
I'm cheesed off with the whole Israelis=evil, Palastinians=cuddly. There's good people on both sides, there's utter twats on each side. The normal people of both sides just want to get on with their lives, while the leaders of both sides just want to beat seven shades out of each other.
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Old 30.12.2008, 00:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Even though Hamas has some faults blocking the peace process, it does not lagitimate this slaugter.
Oh, I didn't realize your post was satire until it got to this part.
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Old 30.12.2008, 05:41
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

Wow - another thread about Israel and the arabs !

One state solution - if Belgium is one the brink of breaking up, how van two nations (assuming the Palestinians are a nation) so different live together peacefully ?
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Old 30.12.2008, 09:42
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

Everything has been said and done and tried and tested. The world has tried its best to find solutions for them. It really is between them after all to settle the matter. Violence will always be answered by violence. It is also maddening and sickening to listen to the news making a fuss about civilian casualties (which of course is unavoidable and awful) instead of concentrating on the real issues, the real reason of why there is no end to their conflict. I wonder at times if they still know what they are actually after.
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Old 30.12.2008, 10:15
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Wow - another thread about Israel and the arabs !
I ran a search before creating this one and didn't find a single thread from the last year.
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Old 30.12.2008, 10:19
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Of course, it does help if the Palastinians don't keep firing rockets into Israel.
Both sides appear to be led by petulant children, just armed with rather dangerous toys.
I'm cheesed off with the whole Israelis=evil, Palastinians=cuddly. There's good people on both sides, there's utter twats on each side. The normal people of both sides just want to get on with their lives, while the leaders of both sides just want to beat seven shades out of each other.
With all due respect CB this is a dangerous over-simplification that completely ignores the fact that a regional superpower is bombing a largely unarmed and vulnerable people. If you really believe that the people of Gaza deserve to be bombed to smithereens for the actions of HAMAS, then you no doubt also believe that the British should have carpet-bombed Belfast for harbouring the IRA.

The fact is that prior to the Israeli bombing of Gaza, there had not been a single Israeli killed by the HAMAS Kassam rockets for the whole of 2008. Therefore based on that do you really think Israel's actions were proportionate?
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Old 30.12.2008, 10:23
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Wow - another thread about Israel and the arabs !

One state solution - if Belgium is one the brink of breaking up, how van two nations (assuming the Palestinians are a nation) so different live together peacefully ?
They managed it pretty well under both the Ottomans and the British i.e. pre-1948
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Old 30.12.2008, 10:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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The fact is that prior to the Israeli bombing of Gaza, there had not been a single Israeli killed by the HAMAS Kassam rockets for the whole of 2008. Therefore based on that do you really think Israel's actions were proportionate?
Nothing proportionate about it, obviously, but rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel began even as the ceasefire was nearing its end. No one is saying that the Palestinian people deserve to suffer, but what cannot be ignored is that the Palestinian leadership, and mainly Hamas, is really really really stupid, and obviously doesn't have the best interest of its people in mind.
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Old 30.12.2008, 11:18
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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The world has tried its best to find solutions for them.
Sorry, this is absolute rubbish. The worlds superpower has armed one side to the teeth, to the tune of billions of its own taxpayers money. There's then barely a response when that side starts bombing refugee camps. And most of the rest of the world are limp wristed at best, in any condemnation.

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how van two nations (assuming the Palestinians are a nation) so different live together peacefully ?
The Isrealis manage to live alongside the other surrounding states without bombing them every few months, whats so special about the Palestinians?

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Personally I can't see a two State solution working either, despite 60 odd years of trying.
You really think that Israel have been 'trying' to reach a peaceful settlement with the Palestinians at any point? There are obviously sensible Israeli's who would like peace, but the goverment of Israel? Trying?

If they were trying, wouldn't they have complied with UN Resolution 242 in 1967 (http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUT...df?OpenElement) and given back the land it gained during its recent occupation. Instead it kept the land, bulldozed houses, built walls, settlements, checkpoints, and Israeli only roads - is this really 'trying'?

I quite like comparison with Northern Ireland. When the Irish were popping over to England to bomb shopping centres, I don't remember the RAF flattening housing estates in Belfast.
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Old 30.12.2008, 12:00
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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They managed it pretty well under both the Ottomans and the British i.e. pre-1948
So did the Irish & English when Ireland was part of a one state solution - most of the time the land was peaceful...

So the Arab massacres (they didn't call themselves Palestinians then) of 1920,1929,1936,1937,1938,1939 don't count ?

Lebanon & Iraq are good examples of what happens in the middle east when people are forced to live together.
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Old 30.12.2008, 13:38
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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With all due respect CB this is a dangerous over-simplification that completely ignores the fact that a regional superpower is bombing a largely unarmed and vulnerable people. If you really believe that the people of Gaza deserve to be bombed to smithereens for the actions of HAMAS, then you no doubt also believe that the British should have carpet-bombed Belfast for harbouring the IRA.

The fact is that prior to the Israeli bombing of Gaza, there had not been a single Israeli killed by the HAMAS Kassam rockets for the whole of 2008. Therefore based on that do you really think Israel's actions were proportionate?
Please don't tell me what I do and do not believe, especially by inference. I never said that that the Palastinians did deserve to be bombed. I said it would help things if their paramilitaries did not fire rockets into Israel. I'm sick of people doing this sort of thing: 'Well, if you don't agree with everything I say, then you obviously believe xyz and this means that you think uvw.'
No.
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Old 30.12.2008, 14:11
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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The fact is that prior to the Israeli bombing of Gaza, there had not been a single Israeli killed by the HAMAS Kassam rockets for the whole of 2008. Therefore based on that do you really think Israel's actions were proportionate?
The fact is that Hamas, an Islamo-Fascist organization, calls for the destruction of Israel and fired hunderds of rockets on Israeli towns & villages.

What would be a "proportionate" response to indiscriminate bombing of civilians ? of kidnapping ? of throwing people from tall buildings (as Hamas did when it took over Gaza from PLO) ?

Castro proposes giving these people political power in a "One state solution" - as if the 20th century never happened.
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