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  #21  
Old 11.01.2009, 21:15
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Re: Racist pri** harry uses the p-word

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In what way is "nigger" worse than "paki"? Both are derogatory racist terms. How do you measure "serious intent"? Is that "How much Papa Gooses likes or dislikes the people involved"?
Lets hope it's sensitive you are or we all be C's. I have no racial issue whatsover, which is maybe why "Paki, Yid, Yank, Jock, Paddy" etc don't get me overly bent out of shape. Calling someone a lazy nigger, or that stalwart fo the English language Jade Goody's attack on BB is wholly different.

The more people kick off about things like this it actually deters from real racist problems and clouds the issue.
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Old 11.01.2009, 21:23
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Re: Racist pri** harry uses the p-word

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Are the words Harry used more or less offensive than the words people are calling him in this thread?

It's all rudeness. It's all wrong. Just a different kind of wrong.
Personally I think he's been stupid but very Brittish (or aleast as they are where I grew up). Sadly.
What can I say? Can't you see a difference between an insult and a racist slur?

If I am rude to harry it is because I don't like him (personally) but if he goes round calling people "pakis" he is showing disrespect to a whole group of people (just because of the colour of their skin).
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  #23  
Old 11.01.2009, 21:28
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Re: Racist pri** harry uses the p-word

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Calling someone a lazy nigger, or that stalwart fo the English language Jade Goody's attack on BB is wholly different.
In what way is it different?
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  #24  
Old 11.01.2009, 21:31
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

Has anyone considered what serviceman Ahmed would have felt at being called p*** by a potential successor of HM ( The Commander in Chief of the forces ) ?

Many Commonwealth citizens especially from Asia will find this behaviour irresponsible at the very least.
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Old 11.01.2009, 21:32
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

I don't think Harry is a racist, just a gaff-prone fool like his grandfather.

Are you Indian or Pakistani? I can never tell the difference between you chaps.
Prince Philip At Washington Embassy reception for Commonwealth members.

Do you still throw spears at each other?
Prince Philip To Australian Aborigines, during a visit to Queensland, 2002.

How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to pass the test.
Prince Philip To Scottish driving instructor, 1995.

If you stay here much longer you'll all be slitty-eyed.
Prince Philip To British students in China during Royal visit there in 1986.

It looks as if it was put in by an Indian.
Prince Philip Pointing at an old-fashioned fuse box while on a tour of a factory near Edinburgh.

Aren't most of you descended from pirates?
Prince Philip To islander in the Cayman Islands, 1994.

You managed not to get eaten, then.
Prince Philip To student who had been trekking in Papua New Guinea in 1998, suggesting Papuan tribes people were still cannibals.

We don't come here for our health. We can think of other ways of enjoying ourselves.
Prince Philip On Canada.

You can't have been here that long, you haven't got a potbelly.
Prince Philip To a Briton residing in Hungary, 1993.

You are a woman, aren't you?
Prince Philip In Kenya in 1984, after accepting a gift from an indigenous woman.

If you gave a seven-year-old a brush and paints he'd produce something like that.
Prince Philip In the Sudan, after viewing some of the paintings housed in the country's ethnic museum.

The barstewards murdered half my family.
Prince Philip In room full of press agents, commenting on Russians in 1967, having been asked whether he would consider a visit there.

It's a pleasant change to be in a country that isn't ruled by its people.
Prince Philip To Alfredo Stroessner, the Paraguayan dictator.

Dontopedalogy is the science of opening your mouth and putting your foot in it, a science which I have practiced for a good many years.
Prince Philip Address to General Dental Council, quoted in Time November 21, 1960.
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  #26  
Old 11.01.2009, 21:39
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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Has anyone considered what serviceman Ahmed would have felt at being called p*** by a potential successor of HM ( The Commander in Chief of the forces ) ?

Many Commonwealth citizens especially from Asia will find this behaviour irresponsible at the very least.
You have absoulutely know idea how he felt, and any pre/post sound bit banter. I was in the military for 12 years and the banter that goes on is alien to most non-military.

Irresponsible fits Harry perfectly, but lets not start labelling people racist when there are more suitable terms to use.
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  #27  
Old 11.01.2009, 21:44
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Re: Racist pri** harry uses the p-word

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What can I say? Can't you see a difference between an insult and a racist slur?

If I am rude to harry it is because I don't like him (personally) but if he goes round calling people "pakis" he is showing disrespect to a whole group of people (just because of the colour of their skin).
Yes, entirely unlike someone who is rude to people just because of who they were born to...
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Old 11.01.2009, 23:23
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Re: Racist pri** harry uses the p-word

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Man, some people need to get a life. So what? Are we to introduce the thought police? Persecute people for thought crimes? If I start to count the number of times per day I called somebody a N/C/P/M/DAS etc while driving...
Wheather or not he is a racist, the point is that an officer, a person who is expected to show leadership, is helping to create an enviornment in which racism is going to be more acceptable and that is the real issue! If this was to happen at our places of work I could well image that most of the people here would have a problem with it. And that is why this behaviour is unacceptable to me.

Jim.
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Old 11.01.2009, 23:36
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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You have absoulutely know idea how he felt, and any pre/post sound bit banter. I was in the military for 12 years and the banter that goes on is alien to most non-military.

Irresponsible fits Harry perfectly, but lets not start labelling people racist when there are more suitable terms to use.
How he felt does not matter, the fact is that person who is suppost to show leadership is helping to promote an environment where racism is more acceptable, whether he agrees with it or not! And just because "we've always done it that way" does not make it more acceptable.

Jim.
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  #30  
Old 11.01.2009, 23:47
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

On a lighter note. I was recently in a taxi in the Caribbean with 3 black people 3 mixed race and one white. We were trying to work out which animals were samll horses and which donkeys or asses. So a mixed race person says what do you get if you cross a donkey with a horse, An Ass, we say, no better still comes the reply- a honkey. At first there is a polite silence, then the white person starts laughing, then everyone was in stitches. A real ice= breaker, we got on great after that. It isn't the words it is the intent behind them.
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  #31  
Old 11.01.2009, 23:47
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

Like the rest of the royals, Harry is over privileged and below average intelligence.

The big question is: how on earth did the News of the World get hold of what is obviously a private video made by Harry himself? He was stupid to have make it in his position. But even more stupid not to keep it in his possession...
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  #32  
Old 12.01.2009, 00:25
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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Like the rest of the royals, Harry is over privileged and below average intelligence.

The big question is: how on earth did the News of the World get hold of what is obviously a private video made by Harry himself? He was stupid to have make it in his position. But even more stupid not to keep it in his possession...
Same paper that tapped a certain Royal's mobile phones illegally...? I'm impressed it took people three years to build up this level of outrage.
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  #33  
Old 12.01.2009, 01:22
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

I was just listening to a phone-in debate about this whole thing....not with any great intent, but simply because I always put the radio on when I go to the toilet!

What always strikes me with these things is how much they get used by the media to fill up airtime or newspaper space....it's almost as if sometimes the outrage is promoted to do just this. I imagine it comes in very handy for them...like the radio show tonight. They were probably wondering what the hell they should base the show around and then comes this Godsend!

I don't in anyway condone Harry for his use of the word. I don't think it was always regarded as offensive as it is today, but even three years ago it certainly wasn't nice. I don't mean that the word has suddenly become offensive, but I think there has been a gradual education about how it can be offensive to use. Ten years ago I think a lot of people used it, especially in relation to their local convenience store and the level of outrage was nowhere like it is today. The word is becoming known for becoming offensive in a similar way to what happened to the N word. That's no bad thing at all but it doesn't make bad people out of all those that use it, though there are certainly some. Without any malicious intent behind it though, some people who continue to use it are more guilty of ignorance than racism.

Top of my abhor list by far are those that use the word with malicious racist intent. A long way behind them, but in front of those who use it out of ignorance, are those who work themselves up into oh so righteous indignation about it. As for Harry, I suspect he used it a little bit of of ignorance and a little bit out of the kind of banter you have with mates when you don't hold back from making derogatory references by race, creed, nationality or physical handicap because both you and the "victim" are comforable with the context.

Back to those who promote the righteous indignation. To my mind they are the same kind of people who made the likes of Benny Hill a virtual outcast because of his sexist attitude to women, but do not breathe a word about the guys who make all the music videos today. Benny Hill's stuff was always aimed at adults and only shown in the evening. The guys making these videos show a lot less respect to women in my view, they aim their stuff at children and it's shown all times of the day. Yet not a peep from those who were so offended at what Benny Hill did!

It's a funny old world.
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Old 12.01.2009, 01:35
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

At least he apologised, anyone remember when Bush used the same term?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002...a.matthewengel

He didn't apologise, but of course in his case it was more ignorance than intentional
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Old 12.01.2009, 01:44
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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Back to those who promote the righteous indignation. To my mind they are the same kind of people who made the likes of Benny Hill a virtual outcast because of his sexist attitude to women, but do not breathe a word about the guys who make all the music videos today.
Clearly not as Benny Hill never bothered me...for example.

Anyway what sort of an argument is that: "You don't like racists so you don't like Benny Hill."
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Old 12.01.2009, 01:52
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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Anyway what sort of an argument is that: "You don't like racists so you don't like Benny Hill."
Martin...the point I was making is that sometimes, the guys getting the worst of the flak....such as Prince Harry is in this case....are by no means the worst of offenders.
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Old 12.01.2009, 02:03
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

The irony of Harry using terms like 'paki' and 'Rag-head' is that after her divorce, his mother had well publicised relationships with both a Pakistani heart surgeon and an Egyptian play boy.

Who would have thunk it?
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Old 12.01.2009, 02:08
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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The irony of Harry using terms like 'paki' and 'Rag-head' is that after her divorce, his mother had well publicised relationships with both a Pakistani heart surgeon and an Egyptian play boy.

Who would have thunk it?
Quite what Harry's father makes of it, heaven knows!

Though I'm sure Prince Charles would disapprove!!!
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Old 12.01.2009, 02:31
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

Regarding the subject word...I love this guy's attitude..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I'm a paki and proud'.......Businessman Abdul Rahim says he wants to reclaim the P-word from racists - and he's using his 'PAK1' clothes label to do it. He talks to Sarfraz ManzoorSticks and stones may break your bones; words can do so much worse. Words can batter your self-esteem, bruise your confidence and bludgeon your patriotism. They can make you hate yourself and convince you that everyone else hates you too. In the mouths of the hate-filled, words can be weapons, and for Asians like me there was one word we feared above all others. It was a term of abuse that could be deployed at a second's notice; a two-syllable response that could end any argument and leave wit, sarcasm and logic pummelled into irrelevance. My entire childhood was spent in fear of it. Every morning I would see it daubed on the walls of the pedestrian subway as I walked to school. Sprayed in thick black aerosol next to an NF sign, it read: "Pakis Out".

When we weren't reading the racist writing on the wall we were being called it at school; our fathers endured it at work and stand-up comedians used it in their acts. No wonder then that for the Pakistanis, Indians and Bengalis who have grown up in Britain over the past 30 years, "paki" is not so much a word as a wound - if not bleeding, then still painfully tender - a visceral reminder of a past most would choose to forget.

Abdul Rahim remembers. Now 35, he remembers being 13 and seeing his local team, Peterborough United, play Wrexham. He was the only Asian on the terraces and recalls how self-conscious he felt when thousands of fans began chanting: "I'd rather be a paki than a taff." He never went to a football match again. More than 20 years on, Rahim, who now runs a small clothing business, wants to ensure young Asians today do not have to endure the shame he felt. Rahim wants to reclaim "paki" from the racists.
"The word has been misappropriated by the racists," he argues, "and our elders, white society and the media have allowed them to do so." We are sitting in the living room of his Peterborough home. His offices are next door. "The racists hijacked this word and the power and confidence is with them. I want that power and confidence back with us."

His campaign began by accident with an advertisement for his business. In it, an Asian man walks past a wall that has "Paki" sprayed on it. He returns a few seconds later with a spray can and adds "proud to be a" above the offensive word. The advert was promptly banned by a British-based Asian satellite channel but that only spurred Rahim to create a range of clothing.

The inspiration for the label's logo came 15 years ago when he read the licence plate of the Pakistani ambassador's car: "PAK 1". T-shirts bearing the logo are already being sold in Bradford and local community leaders in Peterborough have warned Rahim that he risks damaging race relations with his designs. To his critics Rahim is a publicity-hungry troublemaker who is creating controversy to make a name for himself and money for his business. But he denies such base motives. "Those who think I'm doing it as a business gimmick have invested so much time into this word being derogatory," he says, "that they are naturally upset if someone comes along and tells them that they have been upset for 40 years for no reason." Why no reason? "Paki is just a shortened version of Pakistani - its literal meaning is 'the pure' - so why should anyone be afraid of being called pure? A native from Kazakhstan is a Kazakh, someone from Uzbekistan is an Uzbek; so why is someone from Pakistan not allowed to be called a Paki?"

Rather than being considered a form of abuse, paki should, he suggests, be declassified from a class A word such as nigger to a class C term such as Aussie, Yank or Taff. "There is no way that paki is as bad as nigger," he claims, "because nigger is a *******isation of negro, it describes biologically what someone is - paki does not."

The attempt to reclassify paki has precedents in nigger and queer, which have been at least partially reclaimed by the black and gay communities. Forty years ago Lenny Bruce outraged audiences by using the N word; his argument was that if you use a word often enough, it loses its meaning and can no longer hurt. Today it is used by comedians and hip-hop stars, and few are shocked.

The linguistic reclamation of nigger and queer has its origins in an increased confidence and pride in black and gay culture. But even now this "flipping", as it is called, has not been totally successful. The black comedian Chris Rock can do a routine with the line "I love black people but I hate niggers" but Quentin Tarantino faced widespread criticism for using the word in his films. None the less, according to Randall Kennedy, author of Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word, the demonstration of how the N word has been flipped has given others the opportunity to do something similar.

But while we may have learned to relax about sexual swear words, there is still confusion about what is acceptable when talking about race. Last autumn a Manchester man became the first individual to be banned from using the word paki; if he uses it he faces imprisonment. That court decision followed an earlier high court ruling that using the word in football chants is racially offensive and not the same as using Brit, Aussie or Kiwi.

The logical conclusion of those who would seek to rehabilitate paki would be, in the short term at least, to allow the abuse and the chanting to continue and perhaps even encourage it. And that is the difficulty with reclaiming the P-word: its potency has nothing to do with etymology and everything to do with intent. The reason it feels acceptable for Pakistanis to refer to each other as pakis and for Chris Rock to call ignorant blacks niggers is because the intent is demonstrably not malicious. This is obviously not the case when whites refer to "pakis".

Rahim is persuasive when he says we should not get hung up on a word; he may even be correct that the way to reappropriate it is by using it in a positive sense. When I suggest that he might be giving permission to racists to use it too, he offers this comparison. "The use of the internet has led to an increase in child **** and the September 11 bombers used aeroplanes to carry out their acts of terror. Does that make the internet and the airline manufacturers responsible for child **** and the terrorist attacks?"

As someone who is primarily interested in profit rather than being a prophet, Rahim should not be held responsible for the consequences if the word is rehabilitated. And there is something deliciously defiant about young Pakistanis proudly proclaiming they are Pakis; where their parents and older siblings may have worn their ethnicity with shame, their children can be more assertive. But rehabilitating the word might also mean hearing it on our television screens again and at work, with claims that there was no malicious intent.

According to a recent survey, four out of 10 whites would still rather not have an Asian neighbour, and racial harassment is still a reality for many Asians. In such a climate it may be premature to try to decommission paki as a weapon of offence. As a fashion statement, Rahim's designs are bracingly provocative; as a political manifesto his argument feels more exposed. Whether couched in irony or repackaged as self-assertion in the mouths of the hateful, racism is racism no matter how it is dressed up.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I admire his intentions... I think you need a substantial amount of support from a community to achieve anything along these lines. I don't know how he fared, but he obviously had a go...though of course his motivation might actually have owed more to the commercial side of things than he'd want us to believe!
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Old 12.01.2009, 10:55
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Re: Racist prince harry uses the p-word

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How he felt does not matter, the fact is that person who is suppost to show leadership is helping to promote an environment where racism is more acceptable, whether he agrees with it or not! And just because "we've always done it that way" does not make it more acceptable.

Jim.
I would say that unless you know fully what was occuring your are in danger of making a false allegation of racism, and this kind of soundbyte trial is pointless. Also this is 3 years ago when he was a kid for gods sake, how many kids don't make a verbal gaff at that age, and Harry promptly appologised for his error.

If this kind of labelling is 'acceptable' anyone who has said: I'd kill for a beer, becomes a murderer, and heaven forbid the photographer who goes out to take some shot's of people, or called someone a silly b4startd in jest or banter actually think they are illegitimate.
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