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  #1981  
Old 07.11.2015, 10:16
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Patrick Moore is a lobbyist paid by numerous members of "the usual suspects" to take anti-environmental stances. He left Greenpeace 30 years ago for these better-paying activities. He is a pure product of the "Merchants of Doubt" school (if you did not pay attention to my previous posts, Google it).

Everything he says is chosen to promote the causes of his clients, e.g. "clear logging helps forests grow", etc. His only expertise is in muddying waters and buying time.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/g...ent-on-patric/

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  #1982  
Old 07.11.2015, 11:05
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Patrick Moore is a lobbyist paid by numerous members of "the usual suspects" to take anti-environmental stances. He left Greenpeace 30 years ago for these better-paying activities. He is a pure product of the "Merchants of Doubt" school (if you did not pay attention to my previous posts, Google it).

Everything he says is chosen to promote the causes of his clients, e.g. "clear logging helps forests grow", etc. His only expertise is in muddying waters and buying time.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/g...ent-on-patric/

Greenpeace are also past their sell by date. They did a lot of good work in the early days but now are a major business looking for more opportunities for fund raising.


From their web site "While the people-powered movement to save the Arctic won a major victory when Royal Dutch Shell halted its drilling plans..."
It was clear that the Shell decision was based on the low oil price and consequent problem of making a profit on Arctic drilling not on the "people powered movement".
Ironic that Greenpeace did not mention the cause of the low oil price is the US shale oil extraction; is this more environmentally friendly than Arctic drilling?
And how Greenpeace justified spending over 22 million euro building a new ship is beyond me
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  #1983  
Old 07.11.2015, 11:11
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I was worried that Patrick Moore's speech, cited above, on behalf of his clients was given at the Institute of Mechanical Engineers in London. AFAIK they are a repectable professional body. It turns out that they just rented the conference hall to a much less respectable organisation.

Patrick Moore gave his speech to the Global Warming Policy Foundation. A "charity" that even a government minister has declared dodgy.

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...son-think-tank

The GWPF are a charity in name only. They claim to "wield considerable political influence", which, in principle, makes them ineligible for charitable status... I'm sure that their statement is correct, as one of their main sponsors (Michael Hintze) is also a major donor to the Conservative party.

Their other donors are kept secret, which is odd considering that one of their main demands is for greater transparency in climate research LOL.
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  #1984  
Old 07.11.2015, 17:41
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Your steaming heap of ad hominem blather is no substitute match for the arguments proffered by Moore in the article, which was my primary focus in posting it. Invoking character assassination might make you feel better about your position, but it doesn't even begin to address the problems he raises for climate change alarmists (regardless of who he was addressing or where).

I actually read the article. I'm not convinced you did.

PS: Got any more spiffy predictions???
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  #1985  
Old 07.11.2015, 17:49
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ously-thought/

Tom
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  #1986  
Old 07.11.2015, 18:43
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

As I have siad many time and it is still boring; the theory of global warming has moved from science to a pseudo religion so any discussion quickly degenerates into a slanging match where both sides are guilty.

Back in 1988 James E. Hansen said in his presentation to Congress that there was a tipping point of 350 ppm CO2. Such that change then proceeds out of our control; it would be too late to stop global warming.

The 2014 average annual concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere (Mauna Loa Observatory) was 398.55 parts per million (ppm).
For the past ten years (2005 - 2014), the average annual rate of increase is 2.11 parts per million (ppm). This rate of increase is more than double the increase in the 1960s.
So it looks like the 2015 average will exceed 400ppm; the individual 2015 monthly levels vary from 396 to 404.

So what conclusions can we draw?

To be honest I do not know! The CO2 ppm this century (14 years) increased by circa 8% (368 to 398 ppm) which is quite high while temperatures stayed relatively flat compared to the previous 20 years temperature rise when CO2 ppm also rose 8%.
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  #1987  
Old 09.11.2015, 19:14
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Texaner, you are quite right, I have not read Patrick Moore’s piece


I am interested in science, not propaganda. So the first thing I find out about a potential climate change denier is where they are coming from. In this case, the man is a lobbyist talking to a ticket-only event run for fellow climate deniers. So, I see no reason to spend time posting a point by point rebuttal of what he’s saying. Here’s a link to someone who did it for me:


http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2015/10/c...ore-talks.html


When you post links to propaganda issued by lobbyists from well known climate change denial sites such as Breitbart or WattsUp then don’t expect my reply to be more than a background check.
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  #1988  
Old 09.11.2015, 19:18
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I am interested in science, not propaganda. So the first thing I find out about a potential climate change denier is where they are coming from. In this case, the man is a lobbyist talking to a ticket-only event run for fellow climate deniers. So, I see no reason to spend time posting a point by point rebuttal of what he’s saying. Here’s a link to someone who did it for me:
So the litmus test is which publication wrote about it? Oh boy, if that sentiment represents the science community, it is in trouble.
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  #1989  
Old 09.11.2015, 20:26
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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So the litmus test is which publication wrote about it? Oh boy, if that sentiment represents the science community, it is in trouble.
Nope, that's not what I said. If they refer to scientific papers I'm happy to read them. But that is not the case here, so I'm not.

PS That was an interesting critique of Patrick Moore's talk, that I posted, don't you think?
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  #1990  
Old 09.11.2015, 20:43
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Nope, that's not what I said. If they refer to scientific papers I'm happy to read them. But that is not the case here, so I'm not.

PS That was an interesting critique of Patrick Moore's talk, that I posted, don't you think?

Indeed, especially when he described Dr Moore as "a piddly little science denier".
I always find scientific objectivity and detachment to be very impressive
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  #1991  
Old 09.11.2015, 21:11
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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PS That was an interesting critique of Patrick Moore's talk, that I posted, don't you think?
Yup. Nice. Standard partisan political retort.

Of course, I'm not really convinced you read it. I think we're all stuck with not much more than conviction or non-conviction for a while.
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  #1992  
Old 10.11.2015, 20:40
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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So the litmus test is which publication wrote about it? Oh boy, if that sentiment represents the science community, it is in trouble.
That's been the case for some time.

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Texaner, you are quite right, I have not read Patrick Moore’s piece

I am interested in science, not propaganda...
Exactly how do you know that you know the difference?

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[T]he first thing I find out about a potential climate change denier is where they are coming from… ...don’t expect my reply to be more than a background check.
In other words, you're so dogmatic and bigoted about your position that you refuse to even consider any argument proffered by a non-climate-change-alarmist purely because s/he's a non-climate-change-alarmist.

And this is supposed to sound scientific? neutral? balanced? open-minded?

I don't think so.
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  #1993  
Old 16.12.2015, 19:32
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Another gaping hole exposed in the alarmists' fact-free agenda...

The Elephant in the Climate Alarmists’ Living Room.
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  #1994  
Old 16.12.2015, 20:14
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Care to explain the quoted article in simple terms?

I'll give my interpretation

In the past, something happened, therefore everything is bullshit.
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  #1995  
Old 16.12.2015, 20:30
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Care to explain the quoted article in simple terms?
Do you actually mean to resort to the assumption of a simpleton's intellectual capacity in order to demand a more simplified explanation, or do you truly fail to comprehend the concepts articulated in the posted article (which hardly passes for overwhelmingly intellectual or technical)?

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I'll give my interpretation

In the past, something happened, therefore everything is bullshit.
And (my interpretation of) the alarmist counterpart: The past is irrelevant (except where it serves our agenda), therefore what we say is de facto anything but bullshit.
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  #1996  
Old 16.12.2015, 20:32
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Another gaping hole exposed in the alarmists' fact-free agenda...

The Elephant in the Climate Alarmists’ Living Room.
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Care to explain the quoted article in simple terms?

I'll give my interpretation

In the past, something happened, therefore everything is bullshit.
A simple explanation is;
The explanation for the current global warm temperatures is the theory of global warming that they are caused by mankind's C02 emissions.

Between 700 and 1100 years ago it was equally warm. This warming was not caused by mankind's C02 emissions since there were practically no such emissions at that time.

Clearly this was a climate change driven by other factors than mankind's C02 emissions

It would be nice to know what were the factors that caused the Medieval Warm Period to be able to verify that they are not currently in play.
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Old 16.12.2015, 20:54
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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A simple explanation is;
The explanation for the current global warm temperatures is the theory of global warming that they are caused by mankind's C02 emissions.

Between 700 and 1100 years ago it was equally warm. This warming was not caused by mankind's C02 emissions since there were practically no such emissions at that time.

Clearly this was a climate change driven by other factors than mankind's C02 emissions

It would be nice to know what were the factors that caused the Medieval Warm Period to be able to verify that they are not currently in play.
I understand that water under certain circumstances, can boil, I have seen geysers and hot springs for example.

That there are natural instances where water can boil proves that there's no such thing as man made fires.

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  #1998  
Old 16.12.2015, 21:04
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

There's no denying that the earth has gone through many changes in climate, the question is, is that of any benefit to us? It doesn't matter that there was an ice age x years ago, but it does matter what a one degree change in temperature means to the people of this world.

While we can't do anything about natural changes, we are responsible for changes that are not, and people can pontificate on the effects that will never affect them, other people will suffer for their righteous pontification.

For the most part, on this board, the changes will mean a slight changes on our taxes in the western world, switzerland is a different case and already seeing consequences in their skiing tourism, but someone from the deep plains of texas working in IT won't feel the consequences for years to come, it doesn't mean that those changes aren't real.
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  #1999  
Old 16.12.2015, 21:27
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

This thread title should be changed to "Moving away from fossil fuels, who's against it?"
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  #2000  
Old 16.12.2015, 22:01
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I understand that water under certain circumstances, can boil, I have seen geysers and hot springs for example.

That there are natural instances where water can boil proves that there's no such thing as man made fires.
True but a poor analogy since we know the reasons that cause geysers and hot springs (at least I do!).

There are certainly man made fires.

But we do not know the reasons for the cause of the Medieval warming period so we cannot definitely rule out that such reasons might be behind some or all of the current warming.

This is related to the fact there is no proof of the causation of global warming; the theory is entirely based on correlation. There are, for example, no laboratory tests that can prove this theory.
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