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  #2001  
Old 16.12.2015, 22:03
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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This thread title should be changed to "Moving away from fossil fuels, who's against it?"
Losing the argument so you want to move the goal posts to something you can manage?
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  #2002  
Old 16.12.2015, 22:08
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True but a poor analogy since we know the reasons that cause geysers and hot springs (at least I do!).

There are certainly man made fires.

But we do not know the reasons for the cause of the Medieval warming period so we cannot definitely rule out that such reasons might be behind some or all of the current warming.

This is related to the fact there is no proof of the causation of global warming; the theory is entirely based on correlation. There are, for example, no laboratory tests that can prove this theory.
Look mate, there's no definite proof of anything, but there's overwhelming evidence, current evidence doesn't fall under the medeival warming idea.

TBH, the idea that there's a worldwide conspiracy among enviromental sciences or government agencies is one of the most laughable ideas to have come about in recent times. Please elaborate on how such as thing would actually work when snowden leaked a bunch of secrets and made no mention of it.

Texaner thinks there's a worldwide conspiracy hiding the fact the world is six thousand years old, feel free to claim him on your side.

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Losing the argument so you want to move the goal posts to something you can manage?
Well the thread title is conspirital in nature, I hate the argument that conspiracy theorists are right through a "follow the money" argument, there is a huge amount of money invested in the opposite arguments, often more so than the suspected government agents could ever raise.

Basically, there's a very good argument that the whole anti global warming thing is just another strategy employed by invested parties similar to tactics employed when we found out that smoking might be bad for you, or lead in petrol isn't so great, or smog isn't a lovely morning mist. Governments aren't automatically bad, and private corporations aren't inheritly good.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.12.2015 at 20:04. Reason: merging successive repies. Try the multi-quote button, to the right of quote. ;)
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  #2003  
Old 16.12.2015, 23:09
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Look mate, there's no definite proof of anything, but there's overwhelming evidence, current evidence doesn't fall under the medeival warming idea.

TBH, the idea that there's a worldwide conspiracy among enviromental sciences or government agencies is one of the most laughable ideas to have come about in recent times. Please elaborate on how such as thing would actually work when snowden leaked a bunch of secrets and made no mention of it.
About "The idea that there's a worldwide conspiracy among enviromental sciences or government agencies is one of the most laughable ideas..."

I agree

About "but there's overwhelming evidence" well that is the problem.
There was virtually no warming this century until this year (but one year is not statistically significant).
The theory is that man made emissions drive temperature rises but despite the huge increase in such emissions this century there was practically no corresponding temperature rise.

Will be interesting to see what happens to global temperatures next year.
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  #2004  
Old 17.12.2015, 00:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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...the deep plains of texas...
What/where exactly are the "deep plains of texas"?
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  #2005  
Old 17.12.2015, 01:41
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About "but there's overwhelming evidence" well that is the problem.
There was virtually no warming this century until this year (but one year is not statistically significant).
The theory is that man made emissions drive temperature rises but despite the huge increase in such emissions this century there was practically no corresponding temperature rise.

Will be interesting to see what happens to global temperatures next year.
Just because the rises are small it doesn't make them insignificant, terms like "virtually no warming" are semantics.

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What/where exactly are the "deep plains of texas"?
I'm glad that the only thing you could pick up on out of that statement, I'll try to make some spelling mistakes in the future in order to give you something else.

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About "The idea that there's a worldwide conspiracy among enviromental sciences or government agencies is one of the most laughable ideas..."

I agree

About "but there's overwhelming evidence" well that is the problem.
There was virtually no warming this century until this year (but one year is not statistically significant).
The theory is that man made emissions drive temperature rises but despite the huge increase in such emissions this century there was practically no corresponding temperature rise.

Will be interesting to see what happens to global temperatures next year.
Further, while you dismiss the idea of a worldwide conspiracy, you still tacitly endorse it. You seem to think that by simple analysis of readily availble data, you will prove a whole bunch of educated and vetted people wrong.

Whatever you may think, a year on year look at figures may show variations, it's a deliberate misrepresentation, it's not about whether one year is hotter than the next, its whether the last hundred have shown an increase.

A little tweet doing the rounds that you will find hialrious for diffeerent reasons based on your position, https://twitter.com/NRO/status/676516015078039556

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.12.2015 at 20:05. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #2006  
Old 17.12.2015, 07:46
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Here's another hilarious tweet from Greenpeace that reminds us why we need to act on climate change.

https://twitter.com/Greenpeace/statu...31643608309760
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  #2007  
Old 17.12.2015, 07:52
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Personaly, not so hilarious, greenpeace, wtf?

TBH, a lot of the more traditional green organizations have lost their way, charity has become a money spinner and many organisations have become partisan, sacrificing truth for politics, it only harms our position.
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  #2008  
Old 17.12.2015, 08:23
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

It can be hard to find objective sources when I argue here, it's sad that it's become a partisan issue. I still believe in having non partisan institutions solely involved in evidence.

We might not like that industry could be causing us damage, but there are very good reasons that we, as democracies, should know about the drawbacks that private endeavors may cause.

To think that it's not possible that a private entity would not inform the greater public of something that may ultimately be harmful to the general population is foolish.

It's well established by history that private interests will form cablals and monopolies that act against the public interest, while we can also say the same for govenrments, I would argue that they are nowhere near as successful in todays world.

I would argue that the current PR and disinformation campaign on issues of climate change is one of those things, a poorly funded government inquest has faced a significant coordinated campaign of disinformation funded by captains of industry. At some point, those captains of industry may have thought that there was no problem to be addressed, that point was lost a long time ago.
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  #2009  
Old 17.12.2015, 08:39
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

To even call it a poorly funded government inquest is wrong, it implies there was a global effort, which there wasn't.

I remember the furor over the hockey stick graph, later born out to be nothing but honest science.

i remember the documentary where they stated that suddenly, a couple of researchers were overwhelmed by freedom of information requests. That's an attack pattern that many denizens of the internet are familiar with, a coordinated attack meant to disrupt, while we may never know who the people behind it were, and many people outside of tech may not recognise such an attack, it was a coordinated attack.
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  #2010  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:40
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Just because the rises are small it doesn't make them insignificant, terms like "virtually no warming" are semantics.


Significant is a scientific term
Definition "A significant result in a scientific study is a result large enough to matter"


So far this century any temperature rises are less than the margin of error in the measurements.
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  #2011  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:43
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Further, while you dismiss the idea of a worldwide conspiracy, you still tacitly endorse it. You seem to think that by simple analysis of readily availble data, you will prove a whole bunch of educated and vetted people wrong.

Whatever you may think, a year on year look at figures may show variations, it's a deliberate misrepresentation, it's not about whether one year is hotter than the next, its whether the last hundred have shown an increase.

Why pick a hundred years?


If you pick 600 years since the medieval warming period then there was no increase?


If you pick the last 17 years then there was also no increase.
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  #2012  
Old 17.12.2015, 13:14
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To even call it a poorly funded government inquest is wrong, it implies there was a global effort, which there wasn't.

I remember the furor over the hockey stick graph, later born out to be nothing but honest science.

i remember the documentary where they stated that suddenly, a couple of researchers were overwhelmed by freedom of information requests. That's an attack pattern that many denizens of the internet are familiar with, a coordinated attack meant to disrupt, while we may never know who the people behind it were, and many people outside of tech may not recognise such an attack, it was a coordinated attack.
About "I remember the furor over the hockey stick graph, later born out to be nothing but honest science. "

Maybe so but it does not look a lot like a hockey stick any more; maybe if you squint your eyes up a bit and look from a distance?
I also added a "revised" hockey stick
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  #2013  
Old 17.12.2015, 15:24
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Further, while you dismiss the idea of a worldwide conspiracy, you still tacitly endorse it. You seem to think that by simple analysis of readily availble data, you will prove a whole bunch of educated and vetted people wrong.

Whatever you may think, a year on year look at figures may show variations, it's a deliberate misrepresentation, it's not about whether one year is hotter than the next, its whether the last hundred have shown an increase.
About "you seem to think that by simple analysis of readily available data, you will prove a whole bunch of educated and vetted people wrong."

Not really I am just observing the situation and commenting on published facts.

I attach from the UN IPCC report in the 90's an official graph of global forecast warming in this century under different scenarios.
Now man made emissions have increased enormously so far this century which should place us on one of the higher forecast temperature lines but none of the forecast warming was reached so far. Not even the unlikely one that assumed no more man made emissions this century.

Now we could take the "Emperors clothes approach" and say everything looks fine or we could ask this whole bunch of educated and vetted people what went wrong with their forecasts? Maybe there is a very good explanation and global temperatures will get back on the forecast curves. Who knows? I don't!
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  #2014  
Old 17.12.2015, 22:57
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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[lots of] [words]
It bears repeating that none of what this guy says need be regarded as scientifically compelling, precisely because of the many well-documented predictions spawned by his ideology-masquerading-as-science that have simply failed to materialize.

Any genuinely scientific hypothesis produces predictions that are both plausible and ultimately fulfilled. For all the verbose blather of its apologists (cyrus included), climate alarmism has produced no such thing. Alarming threats and warnings, yes. Empirically and unequivocally reliable predictions, no.

(And he's apparently unwilling or unable to explain exactly what/where the "deep plains of texas" are, suggesting only that the elusive region might be the product of a "spelling mistake".)

But ostensibly, none of this will deter the likes of cyrus from plugging away at the true believers' propaganda mission, dismissing doubters by asserting a purely presumed and contrived position of "scientific" superiority, where failed predictions are supposed to be irrelevant.
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  #2015  
Old 20.12.2015, 23:14
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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complete bollocks
.
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  #2016  
Old 20.12.2015, 23:14
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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About "you seem to think that by simple analysis of readily available data, you will prove a whole bunch of educated and vetted people wrong."

Not really I am just observing the situation and commenting on published facts.

I attach from the UN IPCC report in the 90's an official graph of global forecast warming in this century under different scenarios.
Now man made emissions have increased enormously so far this century which should place us on one of the higher forecast temperature lines but none of the forecast warming was reached so far. Not even the unlikely one that assumed no more man made emissions this century.

Now we could take the "Emperors clothes approach" and say everything looks fine or we could ask this whole bunch of educated and vetted people what went wrong with their forecasts? Maybe there is a very good explanation and global temperatures will get back on the forecast curves. Who knows? I don't!
Can you please state clearly what you mean? What source do you have that man made emmissions have increased to put us in the top valuation of the graph?

While there's still a bunch of people who have stuck their heads in their collectivie arses, a hell of a lot has been done, not as much as need to be done, so that's why the graph isn't in the bottom rate, but still reason enough for it not to be in the top category.

Here’s the graph in context so you can read all the figures associated instead of hopefully gaining a cheap point:

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and...ctions-of.html

I challenge you to make the argument that warming is in the predicted ranges where it’s not caused my man, rather than just posting a graph and making a bland statement on how it’s not the worst case scenario.
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  #2017  
Old 20.12.2015, 23:21
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Why pick a hundred years?


If you pick 600 years since the medieval warming period then there was no increase?


If you pick the last 17 years then there was also no increase.

Because that's when we had a little thing called the industrial revolution. Why pick 600 hundred years, why not a million, or a billion? That might be out of texaners league, but the point is not that things happen over times, it's wether we are causing them. There's such a thing a death from natural causes, that never rules out murder.

So you can post all the graphs you like showing changes happen, none of them rule out us causing those changes, it's a sloppy argument when the graphs you post show a huge increase in the time frame we are talking about.

I think I've already shown how sources you've used actually fall in line with IPCC predictions when not taken out of context.
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  #2018  
Old 20.12.2015, 23:45
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

And I want to make it clear, I don't want to go back to rubbing a couple of sticks together living on a vegan diet, but we live in a world where we don't have to abide by actions where having a cheap car means some poor guy has to suffer flooding of their land.

Green tech exists, and has dropped remarkedly in price within the last twenty years, almost as if we collectively decided to invest in it more.

Problems still exist, and some can point and sneer when mistakes are made, they'll ultimately be left as the same guys who thought lead in petrol was fine, or that studies still show that smoking isn't related to cancer.
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  #2019  
Old 21.12.2015, 01:25
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Can you please state clearly what you mean? What source do you have that man made emmissions have increased to put us in the top valuation of the graph?

While there's still a bunch of people who have stuck their heads in their collectivie arses, a hell of a lot has been done, not as much as need to be done, so that's why the graph isn't in the bottom rate, but still reason enough for it not to be in the top category.

Here’s the graph in context so you can read all the figures associated instead of hopefully gaining a cheap point:

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and...ctions-of.html

I challenge you to make the argument that warming is in the predicted ranges where it’s not caused my man, rather than just posting a graph and making a bland statement on how it’s not the worst case scenario.
About "What source do you have that man made emmissions have increased to put us in the top valuation of the graph?"

I know you like graphs so here is another one showing C02 measurements from the official Hawaiian laboratory

You wrote "a hell of a lot has been done" but it has not caused any variation in the slope of the graph this century versus last so the C02 increase year on year was not significantly changed by all this work.

If you compare the C02 graph with the respected UK met office temperature graph then you can see the global temperatures (blue trend line) tracked the c02 graph quite well in the last half of the last century but this century the c02 trend line climbs ever higher while the temperature line is flat.

Matter of interest the USA agencies that publish such graphs have stopped showing a trend line.

Happy to answer any questions
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  #2020  
Old 21.12.2015, 02:49
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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About "What source do you have that man made emmissions have increased to put us in the top valuation of the graph?"

I know you like graphs so here is another one showing C02 measurements from the official Hawaiian laboratory

You wrote "a hell of a lot has been done" but it has not caused any variation in the slope of the graph this century versus last so the C02 increase year on year was not significantly changed by all this work.

If you compare the C02 graph with the respected UK met office temperature graph then you can see the global temperatures (blue trend line) tracked the c02 graph quite well in the last half of the last century but this century the c02 trend line climbs ever higher while the temperature line is flat.

Matter of interest the USA agencies that publish such graphs have stopped showing a trend line.

Happy to answer any questions
This century? seriously, 15 years into this century
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