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  #2121  
Old 10.01.2017, 14:53
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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"in a model "validated" by getting it to "predict" past data from the record." I compare this to driving a car by only looking in the rear view mirror; fine until the road has a curve
I am somewhat sceptical of such models reinforced by "they are continually being improved"!

"all sorts of great experimental work to be done" Indeed, the climate is a huge environment with many, many factors influencing it; many of which are little understood.

For example, Earth’s vegetated lands have shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due (it is assumed from models) to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
This involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments.
The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent an area to two times the continental United States.

Would be nice to know how much this greening reduces atmospheric carbon dioxide and hence global warming.

Source
I am curious to know where this immense lush green area has materialized seeing how deforestation, habitat fragmentation (impacting wildlife, too), urban sprawl, desertification, flooded shores, etc. are very much issues of the day. Are they talking of the greening of lakes, ponds and streams which kills aquatic life? Or maybe the green mountains and Greenland where once we had glaciers.

Here's a song to go with this post - I prefer the Counting Crows' cover, but not their vid, so here's young Joni Mitchell, while I go out to hug a tree.

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Old 10.01.2017, 15:04
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I am curious to know where this immense lush green area has materialized seeing how deforestation, habitat fragmentation (impacting wildlife, too), urban sprawl, desertification, flooded shores, etc. are very much issues of the day. Are they talking of the greening of lakes, ponds and streams which kills aquatic life? Or maybe the green mountains and Greenland where once we had glaciers.
I think there is a bit of a split here.

Biodeversity is a big problem. Countless species are on the verge of disappearing because of man.made changes to the environment.

But on the other hand, greenery on the whole is on the rise. There is more of it but more of it is the same.

Basically a mirror of human society I guess. More propsperity but everything is looking more the same.
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  #2123  
Old 10.01.2017, 19:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I'd like these so-called experts to explain why I was late for tea today!
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  #2124  
Old 10.01.2017, 20:23
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I am curious to know where this immense lush green area has materialized seeing how deforestation, habitat fragmentation (impacting wildlife, too), urban sprawl, desertification, flooded shores, etc. are very much issues of the day. Are they talking of the greening of lakes, ponds and streams which kills aquatic life? Or maybe the green mountains and Greenland where once we had glaciers.

Here's a song to go with this post - I prefer the Counting Crows' cover, but not their vid, so here's young Joni Mitchell, while I go out to hug a tree.
Well if you had clicked on the link there is a nice map of the green areas; you will be relieved to know the name Greenland is still not factual
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  #2125  
Old 10.01.2017, 23:50
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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And from your quote
"The beneficial impacts of carbon dioxide on plants may also be limited"
or may not?, not exactly a clincher is it.

Anyway the reality is there was an increase in greening the equivalent to an area of two times the continental United States so nobody had told the plants about limited beneficial impacts of carbon dioxide!
Inconvenient things the facts about physical world realities (versus theories) aren't they!

What were the other things in the article that could be contributing? Were there any predictions of the opposite happening?

Do you have some research on how ever increasing co2 is going to make the world a better greener place and so we should carry on just pumping out the co2?

Was there some climate science that said this sort of thing definitely would not happen that you are debunking?

EDIT: A quick search reveals a lot of studies on how co2 will affect leaf growth, looks like the NASA study is just a continuation of the improvement of the models.

Here's another report from NASA, from 2011, noting that plants growth may increase : http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Fea....php?src=share

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With more atmospheric carbon dioxide available to convert to plant matter in photosynthesis, plants were able to grow more. This increased growth is referred to as carbon fertilization. Models predict that plants might grow anywhere from 12 to 76 percent more if atmospheric carbon dioxide is doubled, as long as nothing else, like water shortages, limits their growth. However, scientists don’t know how much carbon dioxide is increasing plant growth in the real world, because plants need more than carbon dioxide to grow.
So good job on spotting something else all those scientists missed....

Last edited by cyrus; 11.01.2017 at 00:12. Reason: More info
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  #2126  
Old 24.01.2017, 15:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Actually seems there hasn't been a pause in warming. Ocean temperatures were underestimated, now analysed and corrected and all the data makes pretty sums again


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38513740
End of the year 2016 results;
UK Met Office Hadley Centre - 2016 was 0.77±0.1 °C above the long-term average
NASA - 2016 was 0.99°C above long-term average
NOAA - 2016 was 0.94°C above long-term average

They are all different because they either use different data or adjust the data in different ways.
For example, because of different ways that the polar regions are assessed. There are now polar temperature measuring stations and they are trying to show effect on global warming of the increase in polar temperatures although nobody knows what these temperatures were before there were stations.

The UK Met Office result is lower because it has not used the latest Ocean temperature ideas from NOAA, see here.
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  #2127  
Old 24.01.2017, 16:31
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

In the olden days Greenland was called green land, because it was erm, green!

In the 1970's the scientists were expecting a new ice age, and diminishing fossil fuels would cause global political unrest. Times have changed, but only 40 years later those youngsters in 1970 are now telling us that we cannot expect another ice age. I am not impressed.
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  #2128  
Old 24.01.2017, 16:59
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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In the olden days Greenland was called green land, because it was erm, green!

In the 1970's the scientists were expecting a new ice age, and diminishing fossil fuels would cause global political unrest. Times have changed, but only 40 years later those youngsters in 1970 are now telling us that we cannot expect another ice age. I am not impressed.
No. It was called Greenland for marketing reasons by Eric the Red. Or it's a mistranslation. Either way nothing to do with being green.

For the rest of it...we know a sh1t load more about it now than then
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Old 24.01.2017, 17:39
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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No. It was called Greenland for marketing reasons by Eric the Red. Or it's a mistranslation. Either way nothing to do with being green.

For the rest of it...we know a sh1t load more about it now than then
I read that he named it Greenland to encourage people to migrate from Iceland, which is green(-er). That might be an apocryphal story though.
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  #2130  
Old 08.02.2017, 16:05
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Actually seems there hasn't been a pause in warming. Ocean temperatures were underestimated, now analysed and corrected and all the data makes pretty sums again


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38513740
Nice idea but
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A high-level NOAA whistleblower has told this newspaper that America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) breached its own rules on scientific integrity when it published the sensational but flawed report,
Source

The report claimed that the ‘pause’ or ‘slowdown’ in global warming in the period since 1998 – revealed by UN scientists in 2013 – never existed, and that world temperatures had been rising faster than scientists expected.

But the whistleblower, Dr John Bates, a top NOAA scientist with an impeccable reputation, has shown The Mail on Sunday irrefutable evidence that the paper was based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data.

Dr Bates said: ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’
The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.
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Old 08.02.2017, 16:39
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Dr Bates said: ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’
The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.
If the computer suffered a complete failure, then surely the calculation would have been terminated, there and then.

Also, would a scientist really write a complete paper based on one single execution of a simulation?
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Old 08.02.2017, 19:04
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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If the computer suffered a complete failure, then surely the calculation would have been terminated, there and then.

Also, would a scientist really write a complete paper based on one single execution of a simulation?
The story is that the data was not archived and is now lost; hard to believe
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Old 21.03.2017, 08:51
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Meanwhine the planet continues to warm....:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rted-territory
(deniers - just ignore this, I realise you are completely blind to any evidence of warming. Just like Trump)
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Old 21.03.2017, 09:07
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Global Warming - what's behind it?
I think a lot of it is down to polluting of the waterways - particularly with people pouring away potent homeopathic medicines.
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Old 21.03.2017, 09:11
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Meanwhine the planet continues to warm....
As it's been doing since the last ice-age.

Tom
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Old 21.03.2017, 10:25
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

In the 80-s at school, at a geography lesson, we learned that the total population was nearing 4billion, fast forward only 30 years and there are nearly 8 billion of us...
That's relatively disproportionate.
If we keep having 4-12 kids per family, no matter how eco-friendly or responsible we are, things will become even worse. We all would still need food, clothes, homes, etc.
Overpopulation is a major factor.
Proud parents, please don't throw stones at me - that's just an opinion.
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Old 21.03.2017, 10:28
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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As it's been doing since the last ice-age.

Tom
....with a massive acceleration in recent times. A millenia or more of average warming in a couple of decades.
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Old 06.07.2017, 08:54
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

The "warming hiatus" beloved of climate change deniers doesn't exist:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ust-got-hotter
(with a very nice explanation of why the RSS data has to be corrected)

The "mild climate change" hopes are dashed:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...y-new-research
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Old 06.07.2017, 09:27
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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The "warming hiatus" beloved of climate change deniers doesn't exist:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ust-got-hotter
(with a very nice explanation of why the RSS data has to be corrected)

The "mild climate change" hopes are dashed:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...y-new-research
Poor rehash of a rather old article about RSS data correction that was first published in Mar 2016 here.
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Old 06.07.2017, 09:42
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Poor rehash of a rather old article about RSS data correction that was first published in Mar 2016 here.
Nope - based on a brand new Bayesian analysis published in Science Advances (a top journal) here
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