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Old 23.10.2017, 15:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Who in this thread has opposed the consensus opinion of climate scientists?
Texaner and Loz1983, for starters.

An easy question to ask and a hard one to answer definitively...
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  #2162  
Old 23.10.2017, 16:05
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Who in this thread has opposed the consensus opinion of climate scientists?
Oh, did you think I was painting a portrait of you? *Leaning back, fingers arched, Austrian accent* Interesting
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  #2163  
Old 23.10.2017, 16:34
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

To be honest, the whole 'climate change' issue seems to have been boiled down to a single measure: the amount of greenhouse gases (specifically CO2) in the atmosphere together with the assumptions:

- that it is responsible for the bad changes in the environment, and
- that increasing CO2 levels are mostly man-made, and
- the increase is bad.

It is not clear to me whether any of the assumptions are true (maybe the 2nd is most clear).

I'm highly sceptical as to whether there is really a good model for a climate that we can rely on to such an extent that it warrants so much attention and action, while some clearer cases of pollution (heavy metals in water supply etc.) have very little action.

Climate science seems to appear more like a religion than science right now.
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  #2164  
Old 23.10.2017, 16:44
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Texaner and Loz1983, for starters.

An easy question to ask and a hard one to answer definitively...
Oh and Phos, Jobsrobertscarpii, cyrus, amogles ....


That marton guy was also pretty well there if you go back a couple of years.

Last edited by baboon; 23.10.2017 at 16:57.
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Old 23.10.2017, 16:47
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To be honest, the whole 'climate change' issue seems to have been boiled down to a single measure: the amount of greenhouse gases (specifically CO2) in the atmosphere together with the assumptions:

- that it is responsible for the bad changes in the environment, and
- that increasing CO2 levels are mostly man-made, and
- the increase is bad.

It is not clear to me whether any of the assumptions are true (maybe the 2nd is most clear).

I'm highly sceptical as to whether there is really a good model for a climate that we can rely on to such an extent that it warrants so much attention and action, while some clearer cases of pollution (heavy metals in water supply etc.) have very little action.

Climate science seems to appear more like a religion than science right now.
Then perhaps you should do a little actual reading of reliable peer reviewed sources.


Now if you were to claim that climate change denial is more like a religion than science I would agree. Those guys have no science behind them (although quite a few have significant oil company cash instead).
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  #2166  
Old 23.10.2017, 16:47
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Here is a temperature graph over the last ca. half million years based on ice cores which seem to provide reasonable results.
The three previous peaks lasted just a couple or few thousand years each. Not this time however, it lasts perhaps 15k years already. Of course that's no proof but it shows that this time may well be different.
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Old 23.10.2017, 16:52
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To be honest, the whole 'climate change' issue seems to have been boiled down to a single measure: the amount of greenhouse gases (specifically CO2) in the atmosphere together with the assumptions:

- that it is responsible for the bad changes in the environment, and
- that increasing CO2 levels are mostly man-made, and
- the increase is bad.
Hmmphh

I think there is more to it than this.

Typically scientists get together (a concensus?) and say, we need to reduce CO2 emissions by this much by this date otherwise something bad will happen.

They petition governments and after many years, some international summits are held, where after much panhandling, the politicians agree on a goal that is much more lenient that what the scientists said.

So if the original concensus was correct, even if we achieve that goal, we are still scr@wed.

But somehow the original scientists stay silent about that.

Strange.

And then somebody (hint hint USA) disagrees and throws a hissy fit and the whole negotiation starts again and an even more lenient goal is agreed.

And even this super lienient goal is still somehow a good thing, and is still somehow going to save us all.

All this movability of goalposts raises questions about how much margin of error or tactical exaggeration those models really contain.
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Old 23.10.2017, 16:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Hmmphh

I think there is more to it than this.

Typically scientists get together (a concensus?) and say, we need to reduce CO2 emissions by this much by this date otherwise something bad will happen.

They petition governments and after many years, some international summits are held, where after much panhandling, the politicians agree on a goal that is much more lenient that what the scientists said.

So if the original concensus was correct, even if we achieve that goal, we are still scr@wed.

But somehow the original scientists stay silent about that.

Strange.

And then somebody (hint hint USA) disagrees and throws a hissy fit and the whole negotiation starts again and an even more lenient goal is agreed.

And even this super lienient goal is still somehow a good thing, and is still somehow going to save us all.

All this movability of goalposts raises questions about how much margin of error or tactical exaggeration those models really contain.
Love the complete absence of anything remotely factual in this rant.

Last edited by baboon; 23.10.2017 at 21:54.
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  #2169  
Old 23.10.2017, 18:16
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Oh and Phos, Jobsrobertscarpii, cyrus, amogles ....


That marton guy was also pretty well there if you go back a couple of years.
Also Phil_MCR, st2lemans and amogles.

Quite a good list. Now what?
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Old 23.10.2017, 19:27
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Oh, did you think I was painting a portrait of you? *Leaning back, fingers arched, Austrian accent* Interesting
No, I was curious if you had actually read this thread or were just trolling? Seems the latter is the correct!
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  #2171  
Old 24.10.2017, 13:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Texaner and Loz1983, for starters.

An easy question to ask and a hard one to answer definitively...
What? Where?

I don't deny temperatures could be rising slightly. I'm just not that arsed about it.
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  #2172  
Old 24.10.2017, 13:59
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I don't deny temperatures could be rising slightly. I'm just not that arsed about it.
This.

Tom
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  #2173  
Old 24.10.2017, 15:34
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Who in this thread has opposed the consensus opinion of climate scientists?
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Texaner and Loz1983, for starters.

An easy question to ask and a hard one to answer definitively...
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To be honest, the whole 'climate change' issue seems to have been boiled down to a single measure: the amount of greenhouse gases (specifically CO2) in the atmosphere together with the assumptions:

- that it is responsible for the bad changes in the environment, and
- that increasing CO2 levels are mostly man-made, and
- the increase is bad.

It is not clear to me whether any of the assumptions are true (maybe the 2nd is most clear).

I'm highly sceptical as to whether there is really a good model for a climate that we can rely on to such an extent that it warrants so much attention and action, while some clearer cases of pollution (heavy metals in water supply etc.) have very little action.

Climate science seems to appear more like a religion than science right now.
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Then perhaps you should do a little actual reading of reliable peer reviewed sources.


Now if you were to claim that climate change denial is more like a religion than science I would agree. Those guys have no science behind them (although quite a few have significant oil company cash instead).
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What? Where?

I don't deny temperatures could be rising slightly. I'm just not that arsed about it.


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Old 24.10.2017, 16:03
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I don't recall any factor covering volcanic eruptions being taken into the calculation. One average eruption releases as much carbon as all the carbon saved by using clean vehicles for that year.

Next, how much notice has been taken of the methane emitted by animals?
And, (believe it or not!) sea life was accused this week of releasing too much co2.
The third world (and people in Zürich) are always burning wood for fuel. It might be "renewable" but it certainly isn't clean!

I am happy with the enviromental outcries, we need to clean up our planet, but don't only blame the motorist!
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Old 24.10.2017, 20:32
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Who in this thread has opposed the consensus opinion of climate scientists?
And capo (sorry to have omitted you earlier), and possibly Sbrinz.
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Old 24.10.2017, 22:29
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I don't recall any factor covering volcanic eruptions being taken into the calculation. One average eruption releases as much carbon as all the carbon saved by using clean vehicles for that year.

Next, how much notice has been taken of the methane emitted by animals?
And, (believe it or not!) sea life was accused this week of releasing too much co2.
The third world (and people in Zürich) are always burning wood for fuel. It might be "renewable" but it certainly isn't clean!

I am happy with the enviromental outcries, we need to clean up our planet, but don't only blame the motorist!
Volcanos are complex as they also release sulphur dioxide which has a cooling effect. Normal levels on emissions are taken into account.

Methane is well recognised as an issue and is factored into models. Something like 4 times worse than CO2 but much shorter lived in the atmosphere

Sea life isn't releasing excessive CO2 but as the oceans warm they are releasing dissolved CO2

Burning wood also isn't exactly brilliant as it is far from CO2 neutral, particularly not short term.
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Old 24.10.2017, 22:31
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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.....
It's amazing the bollocks you can find on the Internet, isn't it.
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Old 25.10.2017, 14:02
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To be honest, the whole 'climate change' issue seems to have been boiled down to a single measure: the amount of greenhouse gases (specifically CO2) in the atmosphere together with the assumptions:

- that it is responsible for the bad changes in the environment, and
- that increasing CO2 levels are mostly man-made, and
- the increase is bad.

It is not clear to me whether any of the assumptions are true (maybe the 2nd is most clear).

I'm highly sceptical as to whether there is really a good model for a climate that we can rely on to such an extent that it warrants so much attention and action, while some clearer cases of pollution (heavy metals in water supply etc.) have very little action.

Climate science seems to appear more like a religion than science right now.
True about bigger things to worry about.

How about the current outbreak of the Black Death in Madagascar?
Killed 70 million in the 14th century, responds well now to antibiotic treatment (deaths in 1% to 2% range) so long as antibiotics continue to work
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Old 25.10.2017, 14:55
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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True about bigger things to worry about.

How about the current outbreak of the Black Death in Madagascar?
Killed 70 million in the 14th century, responds well now to antibiotic treatment (deaths in 1% to 2% range) so long as antibiotics continue to work
Far from the same threat level, if memory serves. Rats and fleas (lice?) are the main transmission vectors, both of which are insignificant issues around here nowadays.
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Old 26.10.2017, 12:12
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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It's amazing the bollocks you can find on the Internet, isn't it.
That's what happens when people only want to hear one side of the story or prefer to politicize a scientific debate.

There are many hypotheses for and against the idea that global warming is caused by the human activity. I once watched an interview of a climatologist and university professor and he used the laws of thermodynamics to show that even if all cars in the whole world were running together at the same time, with all power stations, all burners of any type, all steel mills, all cows farting, or any others CO2 producing devices, the calories produced by all them combined wouldn't be enough to raise the earth temperature by 0,1 Celsius. On the other hand, the sun and micro climate systems have way more influence in the temperatures than any other human activity.

Not suspiciously, a lot of politicians and companies that receive subsides sponsor this man-made global warming religion. For example, Germany in the 2000's invested a huge sum of public and private money to become the green energy industry leader of the world. However, with a 50% drop in the price of oil, the only way to have a return on that investment is to have an army of "man-made" global warming supporters. Add to that that China is copying their technology and producing components such as photo-voltaic cells for a fifth of the price, and seems like the Germans should instead have continued in their traditional industries.

Last edited by Capo; 26.10.2017 at 12:44.
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