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  #341  
Old 13.11.2007, 13:38
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

flame bait!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7081331.stm
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  #342  
Old 13.11.2007, 21:38
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Real Climate references another BBC story today.
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  #343  
Old 15.11.2007, 22:21
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Interesting - even the BBC realises it's reporting is a bit duff on science. I have to admit, their cheif science correspondant is not very good. They had her on when they were talking about some space program and it was painfully obvious she'd picked up the entire thing from Wikipedia.
Also interesting is the way the comments on the page lurch from one extreme to another, highlighting the point made about people who write in to these things usually do so because they have very strong opinion...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditor..._sceptics.html
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  #344  
Old 16.11.2007, 20:51
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Global warming may be abrupt, the IPCC warns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7098902.stm
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  #345  
Old 16.11.2007, 21:09
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Global warming may be abrupt, the IPCC warns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7098902.stm
Quote:
Olav Mathis Eira, a Sami reindeer herder from Norway, said that his communities are seeing weather patterns unprecedented in their oral history.
"Winter is one and a half months later than it used to be," he said.
erhem. Like it is here now?

Sadly this subject has a counter argument and evidence for every point raised...
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  #346  
Old 16.11.2007, 21:20
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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erhem. Like it is here now?

Sadly this subject has a counter argument and evidence for every point raised...
Look, I know that there have been warmer times than the present ones but this simply shows how quickly the weather is changing. A lot quicker than nature can respond to, and it's only a matter of time when it will deeply affect each and every one of us, even you my dear
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  #347  
Old 17.11.2007, 11:37
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Hmm. There's a lot of evidence to say that previous changes can occur at vastly different rates. We sat through a presentation by a couple of climatologists at work where they showed the tritium concentrations and it looks like you can very abrupt natural peaks in temperature as well as falls.
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  #348  
Old 17.11.2007, 12:35
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Hmm. There's a lot of evidence to say that previous changes can occur at vastly different rates. We sat through a presentation by a couple of climatologists at work where they showed the tritium concentrations and it looks like you can very abrupt natural peaks in temperature as well as falls.
Let's assume this issue is so complex that nobody really knows what is happening.

Now, would you rather be on the save side and cut your green house emissions by not driving that tank in your garage or would you rather take the risky side and just hope that "everything will sort out itself, eventually".
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  #349  
Old 17.11.2007, 15:48
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Let's assume this issue is so complex that nobody really knows what is happening.

Now, would you rather be on the save side and cut your green house emissions by not driving that tank in your garage or would you rather take the risky side and just hope that "everything will sort out itself, eventually".
You're quite right - I think it is worth persuing these policies as they have other benefits besides countering warming. It's just the extra taxes, the scare stories, some (and only some) fairly bad science, people using the issue as a stick to beat others with, that sort of thing. And above all, people with absolutely no bloody idea of anything whatsoever who read one page of realclimate and then consider themselves an expert.
That's not anyone on here, more some of the people I've worked with and seen on other forums.
Mind you, what if the 'must do something' attitude took hold during the 1970s when all the climatologists were warning (in sometimes over-scary tones) about the dangers of global cooling and how we must do something to combat it...
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  #350  
Old 17.11.2007, 19:15
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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You're quite right - I think it is worth persuing these policies as they have other benefits besides countering warming. It's just the extra taxes, the scare stories, some (and only some) fairly bad science, people using the issue as a stick to beat others with, that sort of thing. And above all, people with absolutely no bloody idea of anything whatsoever who read one page of realclimate and then consider themselves an expert.
That's not anyone on here, more some of the people I've worked with and seen on other forums.
Mind you, what if the 'must do something' attitude took hold during the 1970s when all the climatologists were warning (in sometimes over-scary tones) about the dangers of global cooling and how we must do something to combat it...
I admire your frankness but I guess people like you don't see the consequences of what they're saying, because what you're essentially doing is seeding doubt that this is something we should care about.

Ordinary people will interpret this as "Scientists aren't sure yet" which implies to "This fairy tale is just another way how government can raise taxes".

The more scientists are spreading inconsistent messages, the less people will believe them.

We need to move in one direction, otherwise we won't succeed in achieving this task.
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  #351  
Old 17.11.2007, 19:57
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Now, I don't wish to get into an argument or really p*** people off. However, if anyone really thinks they should listen to me over anyone else, then i'd say they've not really looked into the subject at all anyway. I'm just a chemist and I just get annoyed with the way so many people are acting like this is some sort of religious belief. You either believe or you don't. You're either enlightened or a heretic and these groups seem to be getting more polorised over the issue.
Personally, I think I'm somewhere in the middle ground. The climate is changing, but I don't necessarily believe the problem is as much down to us as some groups would make out. Similarly, I reject what all the paid sceptics and nutters say. I honestly do think some healthy sceptism of the IPCC and some of the researchers is necessary. The IPCC is necessarily a governmentally funded and ultimately controlled body. Within that, you have people who wish to force the government into more action than is being made and as such will over-egg the claims being made (see the BBC article). As for the researchers, there are plenty of well-known scientists who will make models and results say what will get them more funding. Funding bodies are amazing swayed by media coverage of someone's work. if you get a model that sits nicely in the middle of everyone else's predictions, it won't be noticed outside of academia. so, if you're the really ambitious type, you need to get noticed. Best way to do that is a) make a prediction that gets attention and b) stays on the side of the funding body. Many researchers have complained that because their predictions don't fit, they don't get funding.
Now, obviously, this will only cover a few people, but it does happen in science.
I'm not saying you have to discount everything said on the subject either way, but sometimes the focus in the media lies on really out-lying results, which of course is what the public in general see. I think if you really want to get people on side, taxation is not the way. Give them a bit of hope instead of bashing them every time the subject is mentioned or giving them doom-and-gloom stories.
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  #352  
Old 17.11.2007, 20:36
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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<SNIP>
We need to move in one direction, otherwise we won't succeed in achieving this task.
OK, but with arguments like this:

Quote:
Let's assume this issue is so complex that nobody really knows what is happening.

Now, would you rather be on the save side and cut your green house emissions by not driving that tank in your garage or would you rather take the risky side and just hope that "everything will sort out itself, eventually".
and an attitude like this:

Quote:
Look, I know that there have been warmer times than the present ones but this simply shows how quickly the weather is changing. A lot quicker than nature can respond to, and it's only a matter of time when it will deeply affect each and every one of us, even you my dear
you are not actually helping your argument or attracting supporters...
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  #353  
Old 07.12.2007, 14:02
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Interesting article on Swissinfo today ....

Climate ranking causes red Swiss faces
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  #354  
Old 08.12.2007, 21:02
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

So, did anyone notice the "lights out" (Aktion Licht aus!) campaign this evening (8pm)? Did anyone participate?
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  #355  
Old 08.12.2007, 21:17
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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So, did anyone notice the "lights out" (Aktion Licht aus!) campaign this evening (8pm)? Did anyone participate?
I didn't actually

I think there are better ideas than switching off the lights for 5 minutes, especially because this can cause problems to the power grid.

I'd like to see a car-free sunday, or let's say sundays when only cars that emit less than 110 g/km C02 can drive.
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  #356  
Old 08.12.2007, 23:05
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I didn't actually

I think there are better ideas than switching off the lights for 5 minutes, especially because this can cause problems to the power grid.

I'd like to see a car-free sunday, or let's say sundays when only cars that emit less than 110 g/km C02 can drive.
What about this idea: Ciclovia: Bogotá, Colombia?
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  #357  
Old 09.12.2007, 00:03
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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What about this idea: Ciclovia: Bogotá, Colombia?

Cool! I'd like to see that here in Swissyland!

I've heard that a few decades ago during the oil-crisis people here in Switzerland were riding bicycles on the highways


What about that: Modernize and enhance our public transport and ban cars from all swiss cities all together!
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  #358  
Old 09.12.2007, 09:30
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

What goes around comes around ?

Really innivative solutions from SkySails

Football field-sized kite powers latest heavy freight ship




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A kite the size of a football field will provide most of the power for a German heavy freight ship set to launch in December.
The Beluga shipping company that owns the 140-metre 'Beluga' said it expects the kites to decrease fuel consumption by up to 50 percent in optimal cases as well as a cutback of the emission of greenhouse gases on sea by 10 to 20 percent. Interestingly, the ship will be hauling windmills from Esbjerg, Denmark to Houston, Texas.
nice to see innovation at work in the maritime industry
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  #359  
Old 09.12.2007, 10:34
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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The Beluga shipping company that owns the 140-metre 'Beluga' said it expects the kites to decrease fuel consumption by up to 50 percent in optimal cases as well as a cutback of the emission of greenhouse gases on sea by 10 to 20 percent.
Note the stupid comment at the bottom of that article:

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... and it won't make much sense if the price of fuel falls back.
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  #360  
Old 09.12.2007, 10:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Note the stupid comment at the bottom of that article:
yep, caught that .... was a wtf moment ..
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