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  #381  
Old 17.07.2008, 23:47
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I really don't put my trust in consensus:

Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

Looks like vindication for Jamesk.
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  #382  
Old 18.07.2008, 00:30
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I really don't put my trust in consensus:

Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

Looks like vindication for Jamesk.
So how much did OPEC pay them?

Oh yeah, maybe they just had to fill up their SUVs!
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  #383  
Old 18.07.2008, 08:02
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

http://www.iri.columbia.edu

As long as there are people and institutions who want to do something about climate change I suppose we have a future.

The whole "who is behind it" and "who is going to profit from [...]" is totally pointless.
And IMHO only serves those who believe in the divide et impera school of thought.

[PARENTAL ADVISORY: don't read if you have small children]
The way ahead looks fraught with mucho bad action. Someone is even calling for the 6th wave of planetary extinction
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture06922.html
http://www.rewilding.org/thesixthgreatextinction.htm

Paul
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  #384  
Old 18.07.2008, 08:24
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Two days ago ''The day after tomorrow'' was shown on BBC. It felt quite realistic Hey experts are we almost there at this stage of our planet existance?
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  #385  
Old 18.07.2008, 08:36
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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The whole "who is behind it" and "who is going to profit from [...]" is totally pointless.
That strikes me as a somewhat naive statement.
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  #386  
Old 18.07.2008, 08:53
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I really don't put my trust in consensus:

Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

Looks like vindication for Jamesk.
I don't put much faith in where you get your news from, the front page of the APS says it's position is unchanged.
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  #387  
Old 18.07.2008, 09:51
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I don't put much faith in where you get your news from, the front page of the APS says it's position is unchanged.
It's from APS itself: Editor's Comments


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"There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution. "
They mention climate change in the same breath as running out of oil. It makes me believe they want to push the concept of anthropogenic CO2 emissions for promoting clean energy. But these are two separate issues.

I'd love to see cheap and clean energy. But intellectual dictatorship in the scientifc community is counter productive.
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  #388  
Old 18.07.2008, 10:01
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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It's from APS itself: Editor's Comments




They mention climate change in the same breath as running out of oil. It makes me believe they want to push the concept of anthropogenic CO2 emissions for promoting clean energy. But these are two separate issues.

I'd love to see cheap and clean energy. But intellectual dictatorship in the scientifc community is counter productive.
Intellectual dictatorship? Where do you get that from? OK, looks like the APS is calling for a scientific debate on their conclusions, hardly sounds like a dictatorship.
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  #389  
Old 18.07.2008, 10:06
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Intellectual dictatorship? Where do you get that from?
Because humans have a tendency to try to rip off the heads of those they disagree with.
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  #390  
Old 18.07.2008, 10:07
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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That strikes me as a somewhat naive statement.
LOL, yeah. Thank you for the first groan.. I was a virgin until then

So it's "naive" eh? So what IS the correct attitude to solve the problem?
More discussions, bickering, finger pointing is just what certain "powers" need in order to push forward with their own agenda, which does NOT contemplate most of the things the majority of us cares about - especially freedom, democracy, civil rights, peace, economic progress (which is not the same as "growth", BTW).

Thank you again,

Paul
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  #391  
Old 18.07.2008, 10:17
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Because humans have a tendency to try to rip off the heads of those they disagree with.
Oh yawn, back to that again. I would say science is more open to debate than many other institutions, if you've got the facts to back up your theories, you can come up with change.
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  #392  
Old 18.07.2008, 13:10
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Because humans have a tendency to try to rip off the heads of those they disagree with.
I wonder what makes you think that this is how scientific community works. I am part of that community, are you? We are all people and frequently argue and don't like to change our stance, surely. But the difficulty with defending ideas that are against mainstream works well in the long run. Facing a large opposition is a challenge that helps one to refine their arguments and LEARN much more about the subject than when the mainstream is with us. Some people even seek that kind of challenge - it brings more publicity, fame, and if you are lucky to be in fact correct...? President of the Universe, make no mistake!
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  #393  
Old 18.07.2008, 13:38
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I saw a presentation made about detecting CO2 levels in ice from a South American glacier, given as part of the post-graduate seminar series and the work was shockingly poor. They had a tiny sample and it turns out the ice had been melting underneath, yet they managed to extrapolate huge amounts of data from it, all of which would collapse if the already-dodgy calculations were off by a couple of percent. Yet, this work was taken as being fine. That worries me a lot.
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  #394  
Old 18.07.2008, 13:51
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I saw a presentation made about detecting CO2 levels in ice from a South American glacier, given as part of the post-graduate seminar series and the work was shockingly poor. They had a tiny sample and it turns out the ice had been melting underneath, yet they managed to extrapolate huge amounts of data from it, all of which would collapse if the already-dodgy calculations were off by a couple of percent. Yet, this work was taken as being fine. That worries me a lot.
Well - that's what often passes for "science", because of external pressure, political bias, corporate meddling, deadline pressure, etc.

Paul
p.s.:
Ever read Bloomberg's excellent coverage of the "science" behind US medical trials?
http://dcscience.net/pharma-bloomberg.pdf
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  #395  
Old 18.07.2008, 13:52
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?



10 year challenge to get rid of carbon based fuels

*Nods
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  #396  
Old 18.07.2008, 14:22
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

LOL - Paul, I actually meant to hit quote and mistakenly clicked on Groan. I'm not sure how I can give you back your virginity. Maybe one of the mods can restore your virgo intacta status?

My only point is that I don't see why you don't want questioning as to motives or as to who might profit. It seems rather naive to assume that all involved have pure intentions solely.

So we should just accept and fall into line because you don't think there's a chance against "more discussion, finger pointing and bickering"??? It sounds like if it were left up to you, some people would still believe the world was flat.

Thinking outside of the box is a good thing IMHO.
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Old 18.07.2008, 14:35
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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LOL - Paul, I actually meant to hit quote and mistakenly clicked on Groan. I'm not sure how I can give you back your virginity. Maybe one of the mods can restore your virgo intacta status?

My only point is that I don't see why you don't want questioning as to motives or as to who might profit. It seems rather naive to assume that all involved have pure intentions solely.

So we should just accept and fall into line because you don't think there's a chance against "more discussion, finger pointing and bickering"??? It sounds like if it were left up to you, some people would still believe the world was flat.

Thinking outside of the box is a good thing IMHO.
There is absolutely no doubt that there are groups with economy interest riding on the global warming issue. But then again, no matter what issue you take, there always are people who do have interest and those who don't. ... But hey, try "faking" the melting of the arctic ice shelf. Got my point?
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  #398  
Old 18.07.2008, 14:48
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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no matter what issue you take, there always are people who do have interest and those who don't.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean that issues shouldn't be discussed which was my only point. Before any more control of my life is given over to....ahem......those concerned and do-gooding politicians, I think I'd like to have a little more discussion.

As for ice melting, its plausible that this has happened in the past outside of recorded history. Ya think Greenland was named for the ice there?

Also isn't there a notion out there that global warming has to do with solar cycle 24 and sunspot activity? I confess to not knowing much about it.
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Old 18.07.2008, 14:57
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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CO2 = Global Warming is False

I think the simplistic answer to that is MONEY. Pots to made out of all the suckers who believe all that stuff.
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Old 18.07.2008, 15:02
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Agreed, but that doesn't mean that issues shouldn't be discussed which was my only point. Before any more control of my life is given over to....ahem......those concerned and do-gooding politicians, I think I'd like to have a little more discussion.

As for ice melting, its plausible that this has happened in the past outside of recorded history. Ya think Greenland was named for the ice there?

Also isn't there a notion out there that global warming has to do with solar cycle 24 and sunspot activity? I confess to not knowing much about it.
There is no way for any of us to find out the reasons for that. That's why we have scientists to do the heavy lifting. And currently around 99% or more of the scientists who do have the relevant insight into these issues consider human impact a main reason for global warming.

The problem is that extremely powerful groups want to prevent us from believing it, since it would have a dramatic impact on their profits (trillions of future profits are at stake).

There would be no discussion, whether it was real or not if those groups didn't infuse billions of dollars into commercial media.
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