Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #601  
Old 22.09.2008, 18:41
pete-d's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
pete-d has no particular reputation at present
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Hmm I'm not sure where you're getting your facts. The past 15 years, as is well documented in the US science community, the Democrat-run government provided vastly more money for research than the Republican-run government. Just ask any current prof about their funding in the past 8 years vs. the 8 prior. The same is true for almost all government funding of science research, except where it pertains to the military. The main trick that the current (and thankfully outgoing) administration has pulled is increasing budgets, but decreasing the percentage of successful grants because of inflation and the growth in the number of professors who are applying for grants. Here's one example of this.

As far as the specifics of global warming funding, I'd be interested to see more, if you have a source...It could play a role in future grants I might write...
The past 15 years is Bush and Clinton only, so there isn't really much there other than Bush cut some science spending due to war spending. If you ask his science advisor, John H. Marburger, you'll hear that R&D funding has increased by 56%
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../317/5838/596c
and (pdf):
http://www.ostp.gov/galleries/speech...cy%20Forum.pdf

My sources regarding the previous post increase in science funding for Atmospheric Scientists are conversations I've had with 3 different atmospheric science professors from the department where I got my Ph.D., while discussing the future of science funding in my area and future prospects for jobs. The point I was making wasn't about general science funding it was more specific to atmospheric or climate based research, which was done in response to the comment earlier in the thread about self interest of scientists in global warming declarations and funding.

While in general I agree the funding situation is not great (although I am here on my post doc on US NSF dollars so I can't complain too much), I hope that funding will increase for science (and perhaps Atm. Science, especially) in the next few years.
Reply With Quote
  #602  
Old 23.09.2008, 11:55
cfarns
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I see. It's an interesting point. My adviser just keeps talking about how poorly funded US science is in general, which may be one reason she moved here (SNF is a bit more generous in her experience). I hadn't considered that specific fields might buck this trend.

So now can we expect your research to solve the global warming crisis, only to be suppressed if Obama wins in November?
Reply With Quote
  #603  
Old 29.09.2008, 18:33
PatriciaNBern's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 128
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 73 Times in 39 Posts
PatriciaNBern has earned some respectPatriciaNBern has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Ok, i just found this thread, but this is an issue i have been thinking about lately when seeing some of the responces in the American Presidential Campains.

What is behind Global Warming...
Well, first off, i dont think it really has much to do with the polution. i could be wrong, but heres a picture i would like to share with you. When i lived in Colorado up in the mountains, everytime we had a big shopping order to fill we would go down to Denver. As we came over the foothills, you could see this yellowish dome that rested over Denver. You could see the smog and it only seemed to rest over the city. It didnt rise up into the atmosphere, it stayed right there over the city. I do know that there are gasses that are invisible, and they just might be burning a hole in the ozone... I would just like to see pictures of the ozone 30 yrs ago, and of today.

I would personally give the credit of Global Warming to gravity. Yes, thats right, gravity. Gravity pulls the earth 3 inches (7.62 cm) closer to the sun every year. In the last, what, 20-30 years that they have been talking about Global warming, we have gotten 90 inches closer to the sun, thats a total of 2.28 Meters closer in 30 years. Couldn't that be the reason the ice caps are melting? Then on down the line, cause and effect. Next thing you know there are more hurricanes.

Im no sceintist, personally i usually avoid sceince as much as possible. Most people into sceince, i find, just love to debate. In the end, their theorys are just another name for their religion. In the end there is no proof in their theory, so its all centered around faith.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PatriciaNBern for this useful post:
This user groans at PatriciaNBern for this post:
  #604  
Old 29.09.2008, 18:42
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,738
Groaned at 25 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

¨
I believe Sarah Palin has some interesting views on climate change too ...

over here for example

more amusing are the comments ...

Quote:
I predict that John McCain will come to regret his decision on Palin. I think possibly the most effective line of attack Obama has on McCain--the groundwork for which Obama laid in his acceptance speech--is that McCain is unserious. The blatant, short term instrumentality of the Palin pick only serves to reinforce that impression. That he could give the nod to someone who holds such a fringe view on climate change proves that either McCain is not serious about climate change or that he was not serious about his VP pick.
An aside: What do people think about the visuals? I have a hunch McCain picked Palin because she was the only potential running mate who's shorter than he is. If so, I think it might backfire. Sure, he won't have Mitt towering over him, but Palin's youth and beauty contrast starkly with McCain's jowly, scarred mug. She makes him look even older than 72. Standing side by side, they remind me of nothing so much as your standard odd-couple local news anchor team.
couldn't have said it better myself

Last edited by Polorise; 29.09.2008 at 19:06. Reason: link & info
Reply With Quote
  #605  
Old 29.09.2008, 21:58
pete-d's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
pete-d has no particular reputation at present
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
What is behind Global Warming...
Well, first off, i dont think it really has much to do with the polution. i could be wrong, but heres a picture i would like to share with you. When i lived in Colorado up in the mountains, everytime we had a big shopping order to fill we would go down to Denver. As we came over the foothills, you could see this yellowish dome that rested over Denver. You could see the smog and it only seemed to rest over the city. It didnt rise up into the atmosphere, it stayed right there over the city. I do know that there are gasses that are invisible, and they just might be burning a hole in the ozone... I would just like to see pictures of the ozone 30 yrs ago, and of today.
The ozone hole and global warming are 2 different phenomenon. For more on the ozone hole read this: http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/hole.html

The Denver brown cloud is due to particulate scattering and some absorbing gases (measured not based on faith). In fact the entire front range of Colorado experiences the brown cloud. I have plenty of pictures that show this (did my Ph.D. in Atmospheric Science in at the University of Colorado). This is due to what is known as the boundary layer in meteorology. It is a stable part of the atmosphere that traps emissions from cars, industry, farming, etc, keeping them contained in the lower part of the atmosphere. This layer can break up and release the pollution into the free troposphere where, depending on the lifetime of the pollutant it can be transported for long distances.


Quote:
View Post
I would personally give the credit of Global Warming to gravity. Yes, thats right, gravity. Gravity pulls the earth 3 inches (7.62 cm) closer to the sun every year. In the last, what, 20-30 years that they have been talking about Global warming, we have gotten 90 inches closer to the sun, thats a total of 2.28 Meters closer in 30 years. Couldn't that be the reason the ice caps are melting? Then on down the line, cause and effect. Next thing you know there are more hurricanes.
The maximum distance of the earth to the sun is 152 million km, the minimum distance is 146 million km (The earth's orbit is elliptical). If I take what you say above as truth then in 30 years we are 2.28 meters closer. Which is a change of approximately 1 billionth of a percent. That is, quite simply, not sufficient to change the radiative balance of the earth, and cause Climate Change. This is a fact, not some religious belief.


Quote:
View Post
Im no sceintist, personally i usually avoid sceince as much as possible. Most people into sceince, i find, just love to debate. In the end, their theorys are just another name for their religion. In the end there is no proof in their theory, so its all centered around faith.
Theories are based on fact, religions are based on belief with no proof.
Theory (def 1): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
Faith (def 2b) (edited to proper link): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Last edited by pete-d; 30.09.2008 at 06:22.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank pete-d for this useful post:
  #606  
Old 29.09.2008, 22:43
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich.
Posts: 101
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
3daystubble has earned some respect3daystubble has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Calming down
You actualy quoted a frequency in Microns! a Micron is a unit of distance.
Wavelengths are measured in units of distance .
Reply With Quote
  #607  
Old 29.09.2008, 22:52
PatriciaNBern's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 128
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 73 Times in 39 Posts
PatriciaNBern has earned some respectPatriciaNBern has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Theories are based on fact, religions are based on belief with no proof.
Theory (def 1): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
Faith (def 2b): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
See, both of those links showed me the definition to Theory... yet you even reference it to mean faith.

1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2: abstract thought : speculation
3: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a: a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn>
b: an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory<in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>
6 a: a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation
b: an unproved assumption : conjecture
c: a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>

in the end, when looking over all these definitions... when comparing it to how it relates to certain science issues, i still see the words belief, and speculation, but now we are going off topic, and i dont want to get in trouble.

Besides, half of what you said in the beginning went over my head.
Reply With Quote
  #608  
Old 29.09.2008, 22:57
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich.
Posts: 101
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
3daystubble has earned some respect3daystubble has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, thats right, gravity. Gravity pulls the earth 3 inches (7.62 cm) closer to the sun every year.
Im no sceintist, personally
Hi patricianbern.
You said you dont like science but this is just crying out for a tiny little bit of it.
There was this guy named Kepler who came to several conclusions about planetary orbits. His conclusions were considered so valid that they infact called and still call them laws.

And one of his laws says that if what you're saying is happening then we are rotating around the sun faster and faster. The years are getting shorter in effect.

I dont know if thats really the case but Its highly unlikely. I think the year has been exactly the same length since the mayans or even earlier people measured it.

just my 2cts.
Reply With Quote
  #609  
Old 01.10.2008, 00:54
cfarns
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
What is behind Global Warming...
Well, first off, i dont think it really has much to do with the polution...
...In the end there is no proof in their theory, so its all centered around faith.
Good, just when the thread gets boring, we have a successor to Jamesk!

You're right, all science is faith-based and we can't prove any of it. This stuff is pretty cutting edge: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

Ok, ok, sarcasm aside, if you want an explanation of global warming (I think pete-d made a fine effort above for starters), my effort is on this website, geared toward my non-scientist relatives. And for the record, I actually hate debates.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #610  
Old 03.10.2008, 08:05
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Good, just when the thread gets boring, we have a successor to Jamesk!
Maybe, but I'm sure PatriciaNBern is not trolling, merely trying to contribute.
Reply With Quote
  #611  
Old 03.10.2008, 08:33
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,738
Groaned at 25 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe, but I'm sure PatriciaNBern is not trolling, merely trying to contribute.
neither was JamesK ... just an amusement hub

Reply With Quote
  #612  
Old 05.10.2008, 11:22
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Arctic sea ice hits second-lowest extent, likely lowest volume

Arctic sea ice hits second-lowest extent, likely lowest volume.

"The 2008 low strongly reinforces the 30-year downward trend in Arctic sea ice extent, said CU-Boulder Research Professor Mark Serreze, an NSIDC senior scientist. The 2008 September low was 34 percent below the long-term average from 1979 to 2000 and only 9 percent greater than the 2007 record. Because the 2008 low was so far below the September average, the negative trend in the September extent has been pulled downward, from a minus 10.7 percent per decade to a minus 11.7 percent per decade, he said."
Reply With Quote
  #613  
Old 13.10.2008, 21:58
John1975's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 74
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 24 Posts
John1975 has earned some respectJohn1975 has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

We are going through a sun spot cycle. During a time known as "the medieval warm period", the Earth's Temperature was HIGHER than it is now. It is all due to sun spot cycles. This is nothing new.
Reply With Quote
  #614  
Old 13.10.2008, 21:59
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
We are going through a sun spot cycle. During a time known as "the medieval warm period", the Earth's Temperature was HIGHER than it is now. It is all due to sun spot cycles. This is nothing new.
Are you serious, or are you trolling?

Last edited by BeastOfBodmin; 13.10.2008 at 22:11. Reason: s/serious/fvcking serious/
Reply With Quote
  #615  
Old 14.10.2008, 06:00
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,738
Groaned at 25 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Are you serious, or are you trolling?
youth of today ... even remarks are disposable ....

Quote:
The ozone layer can be depleted by free radical catalysts, including nitric oxide (NO), hydroxyl (OH), atomic chlorine (Cl), and atomic bromine (Br). While there are natural sources for all of these species, the concentrations of chlorine and bromine have increased markedly in recent years due to the release of large quantities of manmade organohalogen compounds, especially chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and bromofluorocarbons.[1] These highly stable compounds are capable of surviving the rise to the stratosphere, where Cl and Br radicals are liberated by the action of ultraviolet light. Each radical is then free to initiate and catalyze a chain reaction capable of breaking down over 100,000 ozone molecules. Ozone levels, over the northern hemisphere, have been dropping by 4% per decade. Over approximately 5% of the Earth's surface, around the north and south poles, much larger (but seasonal) declines have been seen; these are the ozone holes.
sure Henry VIII had a fridge bigger than Javo's
Reply With Quote
  #616  
Old 14.10.2008, 08:27
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
sure Henry VIII had a fridge bigger than Javo's
Sorry, but that remark, and the long quote above it. No comprende. Too obtuse for me. Care to explain?
Reply With Quote
  #617  
Old 14.10.2008, 08:30
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
sure Henry VIII had a fridge bigger than Javo's
Only two sips into my morning coffee, and suddenly I get it. Cheers for making me think quite hard so early.
Reply With Quote
  #618  
Old 15.10.2008, 11:30
pete-d's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
pete-d has no particular reputation at present
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
We are going through a sun spot cycle. During a time known as "the medieval warm period", the Earth's Temperature was HIGHER than it is now. It is all due to sun spot cycles. This is nothing new.
The temperature was not higher than it is now. Read the following links.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../medieval.html

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...hey-are-today/
Reply With Quote
  #619  
Old 15.10.2008, 13:54
John1975's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 74
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 24 Posts
John1975 has earned some respectJohn1975 has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

The temperatures have been oscillating since the earth's history. The temperatures co-relate with the sun spot activity/solar radiation.

Why did temperatures decline so dramatically during the period between about 1940 - 1975 when carbon emissions were also booming and constantly on the rise? Something doesn't add up there to me personally.

Thank you for the links above. The more info we have on this the better. I have no position to defend. However in my opinion based on everything I have read, I believe the overwhelmingly biggest reason behind climate change is the fluctuating activity of the sun.

I am not denying that carbon emissions are also a factor. Carbon Emissions are obviously harmful, and we can open up an entirely different can of worms about "free energy" derived from magnetics developed by Nikola Tesla. Obviously burning fossil fuels is wrong, inherently evil, and ridiculous. Especially so when there have been much better alternatives being developed by people like Tesla, which if the efforts received any substantial financial backup would be ready for use!! (No money for these billionaire criminals in free energy of course) However, the big temperature dip during the period between 1940 - 1975 tells me the sun spot activity is the REAL cause of climate change.

Here are some links to some clips to a man named Peter Taylor. He was a former UN environmental advisor who blew the whistle on much of what is mainstream science's accepted stance on the topic.

http://www.global-warming-and-the-cl...ate-change.htm
Reply With Quote
  #620  
Old 21.10.2008, 23:56
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 875
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 230 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The temperatures have been oscillating since the earth's history.
Yes.

Quote:
View Post
The temperatures co-relate with the sun spot activity/solar radiation.
They don't correlate very well and unfortunately in science, you really need to postulate an effect to explain a correlation (one of the reasons science has more success at problem solving than, say, economics). The main objection to this sun spot idea is that it is unclear how to account for the variations in solar flux (that is, energy delivered to the Earth's surface) by invoking a solar cycle. In other words, what is the effect? How do sun spots couple energetically with the Earth to have an effect greater than that implied by solar flux alone? Is that part of the Tesla free energy idea you mention in your post?

Quote:
View Post
Why did temperatures decline so dramatically during the period between about 1940 - 1975 when carbon emissions were also booming and constantly on the rise?
What's "dramatically" by your measure? If I look at the graph here, I do see a bit of a dip from 1940, with a maximum temperature anomaly of -0.2C, recovering to the 1940 level by 1980. The trend is still upward though.

Quote:
View Post
However, the big temperature dip during the period between 1940 - 1975 tells me the sun spot activity is the REAL cause of climate change.
This dip, at its lowest, is warmer than any other time before 1930, according to that graph again.

Quote:
View Post
Here are some links to some clips to a man named Peter Taylor. He was a former UN environmental advisor who blew the whistle on much of what is mainstream science's accepted stance on the topic.

http://www.global-warming-and-the-cl...ate-change.htm
I watched all of the videos featuring Peter Taylor in the link above. I think he was sincere. If you listen carefully to his credentials he is not much of a scientist by training.

For me, he said nothing new or surprising. The best point he made (in my opinion) was that the role of clouds is not well understood. I think climatologists would agree with that. But he made the classic error about water vapour, not realising the difference between a feedback and a forcing.

He spoke about the lack of consensus. But even in the way he described it, I am not surprised by what he said, and even agree. So maybe you are reading too much into what "lack of consensus" means in the way he explained it.

You are repeating a lot of things already discussed on this thread and which were probably also shot down. Here's one of my attempts to counter some of these common misconceptions. It points to an important recent paper concerning temperature trends.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
climate change, climategate, co2, global warming




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0