Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #661  
Old 25.03.2009, 16:42
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,898
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,414 Times in 1,491 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for mentioning that point. You are correct in your guess that it didn't happen; just more sensationalist nonsense from the green lobby.

http://everything2.com/title/Hole%25...zone%2520layer
WTF is that? That's some random guy musing on the internet. He also claims asbestos and DDT are harmless.
Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 25.03.2009, 16:48
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,250
Groaned at 121 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
WTF is that? That's some random guy musing on the internet. He also claims asbestos and DDT are harmless.
Here's some better, scientific evidence.
http://newsrelease.uwaterloo.ca/news.php?id=5051

and the cited paper

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/serv...cvips&gifs=yes
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #663  
Old 25.03.2009, 16:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The carbon in the oil is merely returning to the atmosphere. Do you not realise that is where it came from originally?
Your body produces about 400Btu/hr of heat. Would you care to hazard a guess of what would happen if you had to experience, say, a week's worth of that heat in just one second ?
Reply With Quote
  #664  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:01
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,898
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,414 Times in 1,491 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post

I'll concede that, though the article is only a few days old before so I'll reserve judgement yet.
Reply With Quote
  #665  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:01
Owl and Pussycat's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Schwyz
Posts: 191
Groaned at 38 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 144 Times in 78 Posts
Owl and Pussycat has earned some respectOwl and Pussycat has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Your body produces about 400Btu/hr of heat. Would you care to hazard a guess of what would happen if you had to experience, say, a week's worth of that heat in just one second ?
Yeah, and I can walk down the stairs instead of jumping out of the window.

Irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:03
Owl and Pussycat's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Schwyz
Posts: 191
Groaned at 38 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 144 Times in 78 Posts
Owl and Pussycat has earned some respectOwl and Pussycat has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Hereby we announce official formation of "black Lobby", led by cofounders Phos and Owl-Pussycat !
The slogan is:
-Offspring as much as you can,
-Consume, burn, pullote as much as you can
-Earth will clean up every mess, if not god.
-Human is not acountable to any action against nature
You silly, silly person.
Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:16
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,779
Groaned at 329 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 10,776 Times in 3,749 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Funny old one, this thread. Jamesk who started it gained some notoriety for being so bold as to challenge the majority thinking on climate change.

Now months later, Jamesk has gone and a number of his disciples have appeared.

I still remain unconvinced either way. I think a good summary of the situation is this: if 'they' can't even predict the weather for tomorrow correctly, how can we trust what 'they' tell us the weather will be like in 25 or 50 years.

The problem is like the year 2000 bug, bird flue and countless other 'scares of our age' we will never know if 'they' were right or wrong until it is too late...
__________________


************************************
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
  #668  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:18
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,898
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,414 Times in 1,491 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, and I can walk down the stairs instead of jumping out of the window.

Irrelevant.
You miss the point entirely, just because all the carbon was in the air at some point doesn't mean it's a good thing to return it all at once.

Yes the state of the earth has been in constant change, well done, thanks for stating the obvious, but it's not always been so hospitable to us.

No we don't know all the mechanisms of how every little thing works, so how can you also be so arrogant of assuming that none of our actions can have an impact on the world around us? We impact the environment in many ways, and the world around us changes as it copes with that, those changes may not be benefitial to us. Better to look into it than hope for the best.
Reply With Quote
  #669  
Old 25.03.2009, 17:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, and I can walk down the stairs instead of jumping out of the window.
This analogy also works.

Quote:
Irrelevant.
Why would you think that ?
Reply With Quote
  #670  
Old 25.03.2009, 19:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
How much are you willing to gamble for the lives of those who could be affected? The argument you're actually making, is why should I care? You don't want to do anything about it and hope it will go away. Whatever figure is put, it'll be a waste.

Is it like we could do with less renewable energy? More efficient systems for any manner of things from cars to industry? Could our air not benefit from being cleaner? Is the world worse off with more trees?

I'm not the scientist, but laughing at anyone for being even slightly green is pretty ridiculous.

I'm all for responsible living, and even taking precautions. But you still haven't identified any particular steps of action. If you think its simply to turn off our minds and relinquish control to anyone claiming to do things for the climate. It's just not gonna happen. The green movement is a worthy effort, but it is misguided by hysteria and ulterior political motives. I see them having trouble coming clean on this AGW issue.

Is it about fuel consumption? Yes, I agree we need more fuel efficient technologies. Is it about air quality? Yes, I agree we need to stop polluting the air. But if you seriously thing lessening our fuel consumption by marginal percentages will save the planet, I think you've bought into some BS.

I think a few things we can agree on is that there is climate change happening. This can disrupt the lives of a lot of people. We need to develop the capability to move and relocate large numbers of people to safe zones. We can plan for disasters.

The wild guess approach that maybe if we drive less, then perhaps we won't have any problems strikes me as ineffective thinking, not to mention seemingly deceived.
Reply With Quote
  #671  
Old 25.03.2009, 19:59
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Doesn't the article cite data?
Not that I noticed. There were certainly no references to where I could go to check the accuracy of the statements. Unscientific. If you think the article passes for factual, you have made a mistake.

Quote:
View Post
"For at least the last five years, global temperatures have been falling, according to tracking performed by Roy Spencer, the climatologist formerly of NASA."

You feel the data needs peer review?
Yes I do feel the data need (not needs) review. The above is an unsubstantiated quote. Furthermore, I would expect a link to the paper, at least to the abstract. The problem is, we don't know exactly what Roy Spencer said. The above is a paraphrase by a journalist. A responsible journalist should provide references to their sources. For all we know, he might be quoted out of context. Or the journo could have made it up.

When discussing science stuff, as I've said several times on this thread, one must go as close to the data as possible. Scientists don't take each other very seriously unless there are data to back up such statements.
Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:05
Colonelboris's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 1,137
Groaned at 23 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,273 Times in 671 Posts
Colonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
WTF is that? That's some random guy musing on the internet. He also claims asbestos and DDT are harmless.
On the DDT, I wouldn't say it's harmless, but there's been a bit of thought on the lethality of the alternatives. DDt is very effective against mosquitoes and the dangers from it are much less likely and less severe than malaria. Question there is, is it worth causing a much smaller number of deaths and disabilities through the use of DDT, or is it better to let people die of malaraia in larger numbers, albeit from a natural cause?

[/off topic]
Reply With Quote
  #673  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:06
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,898
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,414 Times in 1,491 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
I'm all for responsible living, and even taking precautions. But you still haven't identified any particular steps of action. If you think its simply to turn off our minds and relinquish control to anyone claiming to do things for the climate. It's just not gonna happen. The green movement is a worthy effort, but it is misguided by hysteria and ulterior political motives. I see them having trouble coming clean on this AGW issue.
I get sick of how you lump groups together, seemingly only to validate your conspiracies. There are many green movements, not all of them hysteric, not all motivated by politics.

Quote:
The wild guess approach that maybe if we drive less, then perhaps we won't have any problems strikes me as ineffective thinking, not to mention seemingly deceived.
Best not look into them then and just take the wild guess that there's nothing that can be done but move people.
Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:14
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT calls Anthropogenic Global Warming:

Global warming: the bogus religion of our age

In his article, he states AGW is "Completely divorced from scientific reality."

He explains that many scientists tow the anthropogenic global warming line to “make their lives easier,” as underfunded scientists can write a single paper endorsing AGW and suddenly be inundated with offers.

Rather than just C&P from the article, did you do like I did and find his MIT Home Page?

Did you then look at his list of publications? What conclusions did you draw from this list? Did any catch your eye? Did you download and read any of these? Did reading his words in a professional, scientific context shed any light on the Maily Dail [sic] article? Did you look for any critiques of these papers in the literature?
Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:20
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Overpopulation is mother of global warming.
All the other reasons are minor compared to it.
I disagree. Far more important measures are energy consumption per capita, the efficiency of the production of that energy, and the production of greenhouse gases per unit of energy delivered, else per capita.

Other useful measures are the EROEI (a ratio and therefore a dimensionless number) and net energy, which is measured in whatever energy units you prefer.
Reply With Quote
  #676  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:28
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
And the film called The Great Global Warming Swindle:
Have you bothered to investigate any criticisms of this film? It's full of errors.

Are you JamesK in disguise?

I suspect you haven't had much scientific training. I'm not too sure about your critical thinking faculties. In which discipline(s) did you learn critical thinking?
Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:36
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
But there are thousands of other scientists. They call it a political swindle, or fear propaganda. Apparently, there's a lot of money and political power at stake.
And there are millions of non-scientists. You're just rehashing a rather old conspiracy argument. It's been done to death on this thread too I think. You accuse others of ad hominem, yet regurgitating this standard slur without substantiating it makes you just as bad.

Please show me some evidence that most or all pro-AGW climatologists substantially benefit personally from knowingly propagating the myth of Climate Change.

Quote:
View Post
Here are some other names; Professor Tim Ball, Professor Nir Shaviv, Professor Ian Clark, Dr. Piers Corbyn, Lord Lawson of Blaby, Professor John Christy, etc.

But I know you would rather not see any of this.
Lawson? As in Nigella's dad? Ex-chancellor? His book is well reasoned, but wrong. A climatologist he is not. Do you have a list of peer-reviewed publications in the fields of climatology or meteorology for any of that list? Oh, you forgot to add David Bellamy.
Reply With Quote
  #678  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:41
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Anybody who believes in this nonsense needs their head examined.
In time, you may be proved to be right. But the scientific evidence is stacked against you at the moment.

Quote:
View Post
Either that or they are a scientist whose career depends upon it.
Can you please substantiate that claim?
Reply With Quote
  #679  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:48
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, I do think about that. In the end, it's a wash. It's just that we're missing the evidence necessary to drop everything we're doing and start following what some other says.
The problem is you are following a circular argument. Rather than weigh up the pros and cons by looking at objective evidence, you are proceeding from the assumption that AGW is bunkum. The selection effect takes care of the rest. Your willingness to indulge in ad hominem attacks instead of discussing facts is consistent with your tendency to C&P something out of a newspaper article and uncritically treat it as fact.

Your substitution of the idea that AGW is being exploited by politicians, media blah blah for looking at peer-reviewed data is typical of the level of the AGW debate.

You appear to be intelligent, but it also appears you no longer wish to be educated.
Reply With Quote
  #680  
Old 25.03.2009, 20:51
BeastOfBodmin's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 869
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 229 Posts
BeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond reputeBeastOfBodmin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
I still remain unconvinced either way. I think a good summary of the situation is this: if 'they' can't even predict the weather for tomorrow correctly, how can we trust what 'they' tell us the weather will be like in 25 or 50 years.
There is a difference between weather and climate. That's why it's called Climate Change these days .

Quote:
View Post
The problem is like the year 2000 bug, bird flue and countless other 'scares of our age' we will never know if 'they' were right or wrong until it is too late...
Sad, but probably true.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
climate change, climategate, co2, global warming




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0