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  #861  
Old 16.02.2010, 13:12
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Much to the ire of the denialists, it seems people are being persuaded to take steps. The world will always have people who take advantage, this doesn't mean we can't take steps ourselves.

You think climate change won't make these problems worse? if it isn't the cause of some of it already.

In my view, it isn't the climate that needs help. What needs help are people.
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  #862  
Old 16.02.2010, 13:13
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I hardly ever watch the television, never read newspapers, and only read The Week magazine, which carries advertisements for products I'll never afford.

Adverts are entertaining, but a bit wasted on the likes of me (although I was inspired to go and buy some Carlsberg beer after watching Ice Cold in Alex, so maybe John Mills is in on the conspiracy?).

I just like to own nice things. They make me happy.

Does that make me a bad person?
Im sorry you felt any implication from me that i thought you were a bad person how in any reasonable way could I?.I was just giving my opinion on materialism in a generalised way.I dont understand perhaps im over opinionated but definately not judgmental like that.
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  #863  
Old 16.02.2010, 13:15
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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In my view, it isn't the climate that needs help. What needs help are people.
The climate doesn't affect people?
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  #864  
Old 16.02.2010, 15:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I'm stating my opinion and trying to make it clear that it is only my opinion.



I disagree. It's true we need to encourage action on a global scale, but how can we do that if we aren't prepared to make our own sacrifices.

While it can be said that such small changes have no effect, it encourages a mindset that brings greater change. As they say, every great journey begins with a single footstep. So turning off a lightbulb leads to wondering what other small changes can be made.
Absolutely , collectively if the will is there and it has been proven historically that things can change.I think[and its only my opinion e.fer's]that with the attitude or feelings of disempowerment slavery wouldnt of been abolished women still wouldnt have the vote etc etc etc
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  #865  
Old 16.02.2010, 21:26
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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So what's your dream? Forcing a pre-industrial lifestyle upon all of us?
Oh you know nothing too big!!! just a world where people dont have to scavenge through rubbish tips to find something they can eat or use to sell for food.Where people arent reduced to eatng rats for survival.A world when famine doesnt exist.When people start looking further than the end of there own selfish noses.Hows that for for starters ?
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  #866  
Old 16.02.2010, 21:28
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Oh you know nothing too big!!! just a world where people dont have to scavenge through rubbish tips to find something they can eat or use to sell for food.Where people arent reduced to eatng rats for survival.A world when famine doesnt exist.When people start looking further than the end of there own selfish noses.Hows that for for starters ?
Oh, come on, only the "wrong" people are reduced to this sort of lifestyle.

Sorry, but you are correct. Those who haven't seen it don't understand.

Brian.
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  #867  
Old 16.02.2010, 21:45
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Oh, come on, only the "wrong" people are reduced to this sort of lifestyle.

Sorry, but you are correct. Those who haven't seen it don't understand.

Brian.
Wrong people? Yes its all there fault very 19th century
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  #868  
Old 16.02.2010, 21:50
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Wrong people? Yes its all there fault very 19th century
Oddly, enough, it is still happening in the 21st century.
I have seen it, when I was in India and when I was last in South Africa. It is not remotely comfortable for any human being with empathy.

Brian.
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  #869  
Old 16.02.2010, 22:50
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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just a world where people dont have to scavenge through rubbish tips to find something they can eat or use to sell for food.Where people arent reduced to eatng rats for survival.A world when famine doesnt exist.
Great! And to what extent will reducing CO2 emissions actually prevent people from starving? AFAIK there's still enough food to feed all people on this planet. The main problem is distribution. So, if you care about people starving there might be a better and slightly more direct approach than reducing CO2 emissions and hoping (or praying) that this will magically lead to less starvation, don't you think? Even more so since plants actually thrive on CO2!
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  #870  
Old 16.02.2010, 22:55
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Great! And to what extent will reducing CO2 emissions actually prevent people from starving? AFAIK there's still enough food to feed all people on this planet. The main problem is distribution.
Eat less meat. That makes room for producing more food for people, greatly reduces the CO2 production, and it makes you live longer!
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  #871  
Old 16.02.2010, 23:08
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Eat less meat. That makes room for producing more food for people
You're right, but this has nothing to do with CO2 at all.

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greatly reduces the CO2 production,
That's a side effect at best but it won't feed more people. BTW I strongly doubt that claim. Less cattle will probably lead to less methane emissions but I don't see why CO2 emissions would be "greatly reduced".
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  #872  
Old 16.02.2010, 23:29
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Great, save the places most at risk from the problem by creating more pollution to save them and make them even more dependent on outside help.
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  #873  
Old 16.02.2010, 23:38
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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You're right, but this has nothing to do with CO2 at all.

That's a side effect at best but it won't feed more people. BTW I strongly doubt that claim. Less cattle will probably lead to less methane emissions but I don't see why CO2 emissions would be "greatly reduced".
On the other hand it does have a lot to do with climate change. Or on the other hand you could just read it as there would be less Green House Gasses. Methane and CO2 are both such things. Methane production from industrial animal husbandry methods is staggering.

B.
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  #874  
Old 17.02.2010, 00:46
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Oddly, enough, it is still happening in the 21st century.
I have seen it, when I was in India and when I was last in South Africa. It is not remotely comfortable for any human being with empathy.

Brian.
Yes Its still happening have seen so much suffering too.The Iraq invasion on Fallujah where working to give aid to families was blocked by the u.s because of films taken.A pregnant woman whose feteus was blown against a wall by an american soldier given the green light to kill any thing that moved .My nightmares dont go away or the anger towardsthe u.s.a goverment that threatend to stop financial aid if we published our pictures.A brave lady smuggled them through.
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  #875  
Old 17.02.2010, 01:07
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Great! And to what extent will reducing CO2 emissions actually prevent people from starving? AFAIK there's still enough food to feed all people on this planet. The main problem is distribution. So, if you care about people starving there might be a better and slightly more direct approach than reducing CO2 emissions and hoping (or praying) that this will magically lead to less starvation, don't you think? Even more so since plants actually thrive on CO2!
Well it would be a start and actually global problems are so complex you i dont believe can isolate and put these issues into compartments they are so linked.The western world exploits the poorer countries cocoa cola for e.g taking vital water resourses from poor countries . I probabaly will get shot for sticking my head out and sayng that the capitalist system has alot to do do with this injustice.
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  #876  
Old 17.02.2010, 06:11
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I think we can declare this topic solved, once and for all, don't you think?
Not when it's coming from sources that are so disingenuous in their "reporting" as to be skirting with flat-out lying (as are you with your later claims in this thread of "direct quotes from the scientists in question").

What Phil Jones actually said was:
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B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming?

Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.
As others have noted, the time period (15 years) is too small to have a high level of statistical confidence, and even so the trend is upwards. The question is clearly loaded to produce a goldmine of out-of-context quotes for the media - and at that it has succeeded.
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  #877  
Old 17.02.2010, 06:12
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Even if it was, who says that a warmer climate would be such a bad thing?
I imagine the majority of the world's population living on coastlines that would be under water probably wouldn't consider it a good thing.
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  #878  
Old 17.02.2010, 09:15
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I probabaly will get shot for sticking my head out and sayng that the capitalist system has alot to do do with this injustice.
What we have today isn't really capitalism. It's rather what I would call corporatism, where major corporations, whose leaders don't take any responsability or personal risks (unlike a entrepreneur), have way too much influence and power.
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  #879  
Old 17.02.2010, 10:53
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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What we have today isn't really capitalism. It's rather what I would call corporatism, where major corporations, whose leaders don't take any responsability or personal risks (unlike a entrepreneur), have way too much influence and power.
And don't forget that our governmental systems have built in protections against some of the worst excesses of the "corporate entities." Third world countries don't have the same robust, mature governmental structures in place to protect their citizens, yet.

Brian.
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  #880  
Old 17.02.2010, 11:08
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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And don't forget that our governmental systems have built in protections against some of the worst excesses of the "corporate entities." Third world countries don't have the same robust, mature governmental structures in place to protect their citizens, yet.

Brian.
But... the free market fairy.... !
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