Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #881  
Old 17.02.2010, 11:39
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

There's a nice article about a new climate science iPhone app here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...climate-change

Quote:
the next time you're caught at the fag end of a wedding reception in an interminable one-way conversation with a reactionary uncle who's boring on about how "the climate's always changed", just switch on this app, hand them your iPhone, and proceed to the bar.
Reply With Quote
  #882  
Old 17.02.2010, 12:16
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
There's a nice article about a new climate science iPhone app here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...climate-change
I just downloaded it. So far, I have only browsed a few pages, it is a very nice and precise app.

Thanks,
Brian.
Reply With Quote
  #883  
Old 17.02.2010, 13:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I'm confused... if we recycle everything, and throw nothing away, how are those people who rummage through rubbish tips in search of something to sell for food going to make a living?

Surely we should buy more things and throw more things away to ensure their survival, no?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #884  
Old 17.02.2010, 13:26
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
I'm confused... if we recycle everything, and throw nothing away, how are those people who rummage through rubbish tips in search of something to sell for food going to make a living?

Surely we should buy more things and throw more things away to ensure their survival, no?
Sadly not everything is reusable and recyclable. Some resources, once they're used, they're gone. Other resources may also take a very very very long time to turn into something else, e.g. fuel.

Perhaps we should be building a society where people don't have to scour rubbish dumps?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gastro Gnome for this useful post:
  #885  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps we should be building a society where people don't have to scour rubbish dumps?
We do not yet have the technology to build a society without scarcity, though there's a reasonable chance we'll see it before the end of this century.

The widespread uptake of nuclear power would be an excellent first step towards this goal.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank drsmithy for this useful post:
  #886  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 440
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 77 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The widespread uptake of nuclear power would be an excellent first step towards this goal.
The tiny problem being that we have not figured out yet where to put the nuclear wastes....
Reply With Quote
  #887  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Nuclear waste storage is perfectly manageable. Why do most people assume that it's some neon-green sludge that kills everything within 100km of it. Absolutely untrue.
Reply With Quote
  #888  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 440
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 77 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Nuclear waste storage is perfectly manageable.
Just a little excerpt from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioac...ement_of_waste), from there you can maybe continue research and find out how not "absolutely untrue" the waste problem is today:

Of particular concern in nuclear waste management are two long-lived fission products, Tc-99 (half-life 220,000 years) and I-129 (half-life 17 million years), which dominate spent fuel radioactivity after a few thousand years. The most troublesome transuranic elements in spent fuel are Np-237 (half-life two million years) and Pu-239 (half life 24,000 years).[24] Nuclear waste requires sophisticated treatment and management in order to successfully isolate it from interacting with the biosphere. This usually necessitates treatment, followed by a long-term management strategy involving storage, disposal or transformation of the waste into a non-toxic form.[25] Governments around the world are considering a range of waste management and disposal options, though there has been limited progress toward long-term waste management solutions.[26]
Reply With Quote
  #889  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The tiny problem being that we have not figured out yet where to put the nuclear wastes....
Send it to the developing world!

Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #890  
Old 17.02.2010, 15:57
sharkey's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lausanne (Previously)
Posts: 763
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,107 Times in 500 Posts
sharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The tiny problem being that we have not figured out yet where to put the nuclear wastes....
I've heard that there's perfectly good spots off the coast of Somalia.

Actually, anyone here work for Trafigura? I believe they also found a nice little spot off the Ivory Coast...


Once we get to Post-Scarcity, we can just lob it all at the Sun. (not the newspaper, giff. The big yellow thing in the sky)



At this point though, I think the best hope is for sustainable Nuclear Fusion. A potentially limitless source of energy, which, to be honest, isn't all that far out there. There are a few different projects looking into it at the moment, but the most promising, to me anyway, is happening here.

There was also a Horizon Documentary about it a few years ago called "How to make a Star on Earth". Worth watching, and can be found here on Google Video.
__________________
I'll fight you for it...

Last edited by sharkey; 17.02.2010 at 16:07. Reason: Extra bit
Reply With Quote
  #891  
Old 17.02.2010, 16:00
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
We do not yet have the technology to build a society without scarcity, though there's a reasonable chance we'll see it before the end of this century.

The widespread uptake of nuclear power would be an excellent first step towards this goal.
There's a difference between eliminating scarcity and removing the need for children to mine rubbish dumps. We seem to have managed this in Europe.
Reply With Quote
  #892  
Old 17.02.2010, 16:07
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I said nuclear waste is manageable, not that it's easy. The long term investment and difficulty can be seen as a positive or a negative. I don't know of any other energy generation technology that takes into account the potential consequences of its wastes from the get-go. It can be done in isolated areas, all it takes is a little foresight and planning. There are potential risks, but I prefer "potential" to the guaranteed environmental risks that almost all the other major energy generation technologies present.
Reply With Quote
  #893  
Old 17.02.2010, 16:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich
Posts: 741
Groaned at 68 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 374 Times in 215 Posts
Focus has earned some respectFocus has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I get quite amazed why people can not makwe their own judgements based upon their own obervations.

I am 57 years old and come from Northern Ontario Canada. I have seen the results of pollution and global warming.

I lived close to Detroit where on some days I could write my name on my car due to pollution. My children suffered from chronic asthma as a result of the pollution.

I have been in cities where I can suffer from the pollution

Now why do I need some scientist or some article to tell me that the world is suffering.

The only reason I figure why people debate this is because they are justifying their abusive behavior

I do not know what is contributing more. But I know that I can do something in my own little way. I take the train to work every day. I avoid using my car. If I could afford to buy a fuel efficient car right now I would.


I just do not get why there needs to be a debate. we have a beautiful world
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Focus for this useful post:
  #894  
Old 17.02.2010, 16:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
The tiny problem being that we have not figured out yet where to put the nuclear wastes....
Waste management is a political, not technical, problem.

Further, after proper reprocessing, nuclear waste is both less dangerous, and vastly less plentiful, than the waste produced by coal, gas, or oil-fired power.
Reply With Quote
  #895  
Old 17.02.2010, 17:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
There's a difference between eliminating scarcity and removing the need for children to mine rubbish dumps. We seem to have managed this in Europe.
In Europe (or, at least, the parts of it you're talking about) scarcity _has_ been eliminated when it comes to basic needs.
Reply With Quote
  #896  
Old 17.02.2010, 17:38
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
In Europe (or, at least, the parts of it you're talking about) scarcity _has_ been eliminated when it comes to basic needs.
That's not strictly true. There are price differences even between basic foods, indicating differing levels of scarcity.

The basic point is the same as mine though . . . we don't have people crawling over rubbish dumps in Europe. In that case we should be able eliminate the problem elsewhere . . . it's a political problem, not a technical one.
Reply With Quote
  #897  
Old 17.02.2010, 18:25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 440
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 77 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Waste management is a political, not technical, problem.

Further, after proper reprocessing, nuclear waste is both less dangerous, and vastly less plentiful, than the waste produced by coal, gas, or oil-fired power.
Now you should prove what you say. I am not saying that burning oil, coal, or gas is a better alternative, first of all because their amount is not infinite (and the same applies to uranium). Nuclear wastes remain toxic and dangerous for thousands of years! You might find the best place in the world to store them (there won't be such a good place in any country, so, yes, huge political problem) and yet the water might find its way to them and pollute god-knows what.
Reply With Quote
  #898  
Old 17.02.2010, 18:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
That's not strictly true. There are price differences even between basic foods, indicating differing levels of scarcity.
Yes, but the basics are available in the first place, which is my point. You are arguing semantics.

Quote:
The basic point is the same as mine though . . . we don't have people crawling over rubbish dumps in Europe. In that case we should be able eliminate the problem elsewhere . . . it's a political problem, not a technical one.
Who is "we" ? Are you advocating that "we" somehow remove the politicians in these poverty-stricken countries and replace them with ones more aligned to "our" standards ? That hasn't worked out so well in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #899  
Old 17.02.2010, 18:43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 440
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 77 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
we don't have people crawling over rubbish dumps in Europe.
Are you sure we don't?
Reply With Quote
  #900  
Old 17.02.2010, 18:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Quote:
View Post
Are you sure we don't?
Only in the third world parts of Europe, like Italy.

And Italy's part of Africa, anyway, so it doesn't count.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
climate change, climategate, co2, global warming




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0