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  #1061  
Old 20.11.2010, 18:45
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

A nice piece in The Economist about how Republicans are kidding themselves.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...global_warming
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  #1062  
Old 05.12.2010, 14:33
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

The Guardian says WikiLeaks cables reveal how US manipulated climate accord.
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  #1063  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:54
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A clean energy future starts now!

A clean energy future starts now!

This WWF report claims

Quote:
that all the world’s energy needs could be provided cleanly, sustainably and economically by the year 2050.
My first thought was "Yeah, right!". I have downloaded the report and will read it in due course, but the comments so far are not flattering.
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  #1064  
Old 06.02.2011, 15:00
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Re: A clean energy future starts now!

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A clean energy future starts now!

This WWF report claims

My first thought was "Yeah, right!". I have downloaded the report and will read it in due course, but the comments so far are not flattering.
"Yeah Right!" if people are willing to adapt their behaviour, which is incredibly difficult to achieve. I appreciate being able to select the source of my electricity from the Zurich power company EWZ. The standard source of power is what they call Naturpower: a mixture of hydro electric, biomass and wind.

Of course, if one wants cheaper power, options are available but the customer has to opt in. The more people decide to stay with Naturpower or even it's premium services the more likely we'll see a reduction in prices for ecologically sound sources. And getting the message out to turn off computers, TVs, lights etc.
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  #1065  
Old 06.02.2011, 15:22
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Thats a good find
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  #1066  
Old 06.02.2011, 15:26
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Re: A clean energy future starts now!

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"Yeah Right!" if people are willing to adapt their behaviour, which is incredibly difficult to achieve. I appreciate being able to select the source of my electricity from the Zurich power company EWZ. The standard source of power is what they call Naturpower: a mixture of hydro electric, biomass and wind.
I use Ökostrom. Over the last year my annual usage went up from 1110 to 1910 kWh, or from 3.07 kWh to 5.23 kWh per day. But the number of permanent occupants in my apartment doubled to 2.
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  #1067  
Old 06.02.2011, 20:41
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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A nice piece in The Economist about how Republicans are kidding themselves.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...global_warming

Interesting article with comments like
"researchers have recently been startled to see big changes unfold in both Greenland and Antarctica."
Which researchers? What changes? References?

Here is an opposite view for Greenland which has come to the odd conclusion that the Greenland glaciers melt less in warmer years!

http://www.environment.leeds.ac.uk/s...7da4765f0a2d38

This study was by Leeds university; the study was funded by the Natural Environment Research Council’s National Centre for Earth Observation, the Philip Leverhulme Trust, and by the European Commission Ice2Sea project.

All the studies of Antartica show there has been a small increase in the amount of ice over the last 30 years so what are " big changes unfold in Antarctica."? A reference would have been good.
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  #1068  
Old 06.02.2011, 21:17
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Interesting article with comments like
"researchers have recently been startled to see big changes unfold in both Greenland and Antarctica."
Which researchers? What changes? References?
The Economist article references the following NYTimes article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/sc...ewanted=1&_r=1

There are plenty of further links in the NYT article.
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  #1069  
Old 06.02.2011, 22:05
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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The Economist article references the following NYTimes article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/sc...ewanted=1&_r=1

There are plenty of further links in the NYT article.
Thanks but I meant a link to the research behind the specific statement "researchers have recently been startled to see big changes unfold in both Greenland and Antarctica". Which I found to be quite a startling statement.

The NYT article did state "Strictly speaking, scientists have not proved that human-induced global warming is the cause of the changes" which I suppose is as good as we will get?
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  #1070  
Old 06.02.2011, 22:24
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Paranoia.

And, 'Consensus' science.

Tom
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  #1071  
Old 17.02.2011, 11:04
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/weather/201...tter-8599.html

Climate Cyborg brings global warming debate to Twitter.
Quote:
Leck, as we mentioned way back when, is a 43-year-old Australian computer programmer who built a Twitter chatbot to engage climate-change skeptics. @AI_AGW, aka the “Climate Cyborg,” tracks down people using the social service to mock global warming and then inserts itself into the conversation with a canned tweet correcting their viewpoint, like “Mars is not warming globally” or “Saying there is no global warming because it snows is like saying there is no sun because it gets dark at night.” Its tireless efforts (more than 73,000 tweets and counting) have drawn widespread ire from the skeptical community; the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow complained that “harassment and spam is not the answer” and called for Leck to “tear down this bot!”


...


Why not just argue with them yourself?
“If they just toss up '[University of East Anglia climatologist] Phil Jones says there's been no warming since 1995,’ they don't deserve more than an automatic response. … It's been answered a hundred thousand times.”
Do most people realize it's a robot they're talking to?
“There have been people going back and forth with it for weeks and months. There are a couple who have certainly come a long way. Now they're like, 'OK, I don't think a cap and trade is the best way to solve the problem.' So we've made big progress over a long and painful time.”
Heh, it must make people feel a little dumb when a Twitter bot can anticipate your arguments and refute them immediately. Every argument in your arsenal, a primitive piece of programming already knows about. Which is similar to my observations, most "skeptics" are just parroting talking points.
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  #1072  
Old 17.02.2011, 11:06
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Which is similar to my observations, most "skeptics" are just parroting talking points.
...and so are the believers.
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  #1073  
Old 17.02.2011, 14:13
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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And, 'Consensus' science.
Consensus happens in science in two situations:

1. When scientists are too lazy, collusive or self serving to criticise each other.
2. When scientists have found something to be clearly true.
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  #1074  
Old 20.02.2011, 10:18
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Which is similar to my observations, most "skeptics" are just parroting talking points.
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...and so are the believers.
According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Global Analysis for January 2011 published in the last couple of days; Global Land temperature tied with January 1949 as 29th warmest on record. I do not suppose anybody said this before
Full report here
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2011/1
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  #1075  
Old 21.02.2011, 17:18
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Global Analysis for January 2011 published in the last couple of days; Global Land temperature tied with January 1949 as 29th warmest on record. I do not suppose anybody said this before
Full report here
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2011/1
What does that mean?
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  #1076  
Old 21.02.2011, 18:41
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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What does that mean?
It means that the average combined Global Land & Ocean temperature for the month of January 2011 was not different than January 1949.
One might expect with global warming it would be warmer now?
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  #1077  
Old 21.02.2011, 19:39
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

James nice topic, as you say it should be discussed and we should all make our own answers. The trouble is we pick and choose information to suit our own arguements and so with the vast amount of knowledge available we can also make all our arguments plausible.

I would suggest you start with what people are talking about- that is man made increase in C02 emissions.

Lets just take that example and figure out if it is true or not?

Are we increasing C02 levels, the answer is obviously yes since all activities we conduct have an affect.

Another question would be are we affecting the earth? The answer you would have to look at is in natural sciences do you understand the eco-system do you know that if you affect a system it changes the cycle of things?

We can then look at the amount if what we do is significant to create a world climatic change.

The answer relies on the figures of what we produce and destroy globally, I was in discussion with a multinational company they said they produce 40 million catalogues a year each year, to me that sounds a lot.

I was in discussion with another multinational an energy company and they needed 80 million tons of C02 certificates to offset its carbon emissions each year every year.

This is only two companies I am talking about I can give you many more as there are many more..

I dont ask you to listen to politicians I ask you to reason yourself -of course the earth has been through a lot of turmoil and still exists.

The question is not about the Earth it is about us if we will still exist?

If we have no regulations on pollution or decrease our output of C02 which is not a pollution but as the eco system is a delicate thing, too much C02 will make the whole system change.

Is there reason in this argument? Your arguments are based on if we should believe anyone especially politicians. I would argue no dont listen to them, but really get to know the argument if you do end up agreeing with politicians that we have to do something on climate change. I suppose its a sacrifice you have to live with

I have been watching climatic change over the last 10 years in the poorest places in the world and can easily connect the dots without reading one scientific journal.

When you next go to your garbage bin and think should I recycle I would answer yes because society changes as we all do. We have all this new garbage and incredible amount of new materials new forms of electricity and the countless things we have accumlated in such a short time. We should also know how to put that delicate eco-system back in place.
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  #1078  
Old 21.02.2011, 19:54
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Hi Hoslo

Why do you describe the eco-system as delicate? I would describe it as extremely robust. It easily recovers from major volcanoes, floods & tsunamis & other catastrophic events.

Can you explain why you say delicate?

Thanks
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  #1079  
Old 21.02.2011, 20:27
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

You are right there are different forms of eco systems some are robust some rely on very specific micro systems. We as humans are quite robust but as we saw in the recent natural calamities we are also very delicate. It depends on your perspective.

I will explain again we are not talking about the climatic changes to the world but to our survival as a delicate sometimes robust organism. If we look at the people who live on day to day basis they are affected tremendously by the little changes in climate. While we in switzerland just go to Aldi or Denner if we have trouble surviving the costly environment or better still Germany.

Is my point any clearer?
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  #1080  
Old 21.02.2011, 20:51
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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You are right there are different forms of eco systems some are robust some rely on very specific micro systems. We as humans are quite robust but as we saw in the recent natural calamities we are also very delicate. It depends on your perspective.

I will explain again we are not talking about the climatic changes to the world but to our survival as a delicate sometimes robust organism. If we look at the people who live on day to day basis they are affected tremendously by the little changes in climate. While we in switzerland just go to Aldi or Denner if we have trouble surviving the costly environment or better still Germany.

Is my point any clearer?
About " If we look at the people who live on day to day basis they are affected tremendously by the little changes in climate"

Some people live happily in the frozen Northern wastes & others in the tropics. Same biological people, same humans; wide differences in climate?
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